Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[Yehren]

Except that in Europe THE LITERACY RATE WAS ABOVE 80% from the mid eighteenth century on, and in the US from the mid 19th. So how do those figures justify the Pope placing the Bible on a list of forbidden books late 1800s?

Show us that. I can find where one local council (not the Church council) banned reading of an Albigensian/Cathar version of the Bible in 1299. That group taught that there were two gods, an evil one and a good one, and that matter itself was evil.

It turns out the "I was a Catholic and the priest told me not to read the Bible" story has been repeatedly debunked, but it still pops up from time to time. What's funny about this, is the Church actually encouraged reading of the Bible:

To return, however, to the question of the formation of Biblical students. We must lay the foundations in piety and humility of mind; only when we have done that does St. Jerome invite us to study the Bible. In the first place, he insists, in season and out, on daily reading of the text. "Provided," he says, "our bodies are not the slaves of sin, wisdom will come to us; but exercise your mind, feed it daily with Holy Scripture." And again: "We have got, then, to read Holy Scripture assiduously; we have got to meditate on the Law of God day and night so that, as expert money-changers, we may be able to detect false coin from true."
...
Hence, as far as in us lies, we, Venerable Brethren, shall, with St. Jerome as our guide, never desist from urging the faithful to read daily the Gospels, the Acts and the Epistles, so as to gather thence food for their souls.
...
The object of this Society is to put into the hands of as many people as possible the Gospels and Acts, so that every Christian family may have them and become accustomed to reading them. This we have much at heart, for we have seen how useful it is. We earnestly hope, then, that similar Societies will be founded in your dioceses and affiliated to the parent Society here.


Commendation, too, is due to Catholics in other countries who have published the entire New Testament, as well as selected portions of the Old, in neat and simple form so as to popularize their use. Much again must accrue to the Church of God when numbers of people thus approach this table of heavenly instruction which the Lord provided through the ministry of His Prophets, Apostles and Doctors for the entire Christian world.
...
Constantly read the Bible; in fact, have it always in your hands. Learn what you have got to teach. Get firm hold of that "faithful word that is according to doctrine, that you may be able to exhort in sound doctrine and convince the gainsayers.
From:
SPIRITUS PARACLITUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE BENEDICT XV
ON ST. JEROME
eptember 15, 1920
Spiritus Paraclitus (September 15, 1920) | BENEDICT XV

You cannot serve God by a deception. God is truth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Except that in Europe THE LITERACY RATE WAS ABOVE 80% from the mid eighteenth century on, and in the US from the mid 19th. So how do those figures justify the Pope placing the Bible on a list of forbidden books late 1800s?

Once again – you don’t know what you’re talking about.
The “Index”, as it was referred to was set in place – as I indicated before – because of spurious versions of the bible translated by less-than-accurate scribes.

For example - the Albigensians were a heretical sext that believed there are two gods, that marriage was evil – and that ALL matters o the flesh were evil. Because of this – fornication was not a sin. Suicide was even encouraged among their number. ALL of this from a perverted, mistranslation of the Bible.

THIS is why the Council of Toulouse went so far as to ban private ownership of Bibles.

Not sure where you’re getting your information about literacy percentages in the 18th century– an anti-Catholic site, no doubt – but even a benign secular site like Wikipedia states that the average literacy in Europe during that time was less than 50% - and only among certain groups in certain areas.

As for the Bible being on the list of “forbidden Books” – it was UNAUTHORIZED versions of the Bible that were forbidden. You know – like the ones the Albigensians were passing around . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

OK.......... ALL!

The church I went to was Polish .............!!!!!
So the mass was in Latin and on Sunday ,,,,,,,,,,,,, the mass was in Latin, but..............
He the priest,,,,, spoke in Polish.......
So how much do you suppose us children learned if we did not understand or speak
the language ???????????????????????????????

back in the old day's you did not question an elder " Priest or Nun ",,,,,,,,,,,,, you were a child ,,,,,
so you listen and never spoke out of turn..........

It sounds like you may have been part of the Polish National Catholic Church – which is NOT part of the Catholic Church.
It is a schismatic group that broke away in the 19th century and is NOT in communion with the Catholic Church.

If that is the case – then I can’t speak for them.
I DO know that the Catholic Church does not forbid the reading of Scripture – and NO – not even in YOUR lifetime.

 

[amadeus]

Like you, I also was a very earnest altar boy who took his service very seriously... And then, as a young 8 to 10yo, knew the Latin mass by heart, but only some of the English translation.

I remember when the nuns [Franciscans they were, 4 in all] who used to manage the altar boys offered a voluntary evening class once a week to teach us the meaning of the Latin words we and the priest were speaking during the mass. I was enthusiastic and attended and learned although most of it is long since forgotten. There a few of the Latin responses I used to make that are forever stuck in my mind.

The only Bible I every knew of was the big one in the pulpit that priest would quote from on occasion during the sermon. My family never had one. My very devout grandmother never had one. Nor any of her 8 Catholic sisters as far as I know. Nor would I suggest did her parents else she would have it on display.

My step-father and his entire side of the family were Portuguese from the Azores and always Catholic, but almost none of the men attended mass regularly. Many of the women did, but none from my house.

My biological father was in the Pentecostal Holiness Church all of his life and he owned a Bible and read it... but I never in my memory lived in the same home with him. My mother divorced him and moved from Oklahoma to California before I was old enough to remember. In the few years they were married, he gave my mother a Bible, although I did not know it until she died in 2006. I knew it then because I have it. It is now almost falling apart, but still her given name, Belva, inscribed in gold letters on the front cover and inside in his own hand writing the words, "To Belva [her surname] for Christmas 1940 from [his name]". All of those years from their divorce in 1946 to her death in 2006 she kept that Bible even though for most of that time she was married to my step-father. Until the later years of her life she never read it and then I suspect she nearly wore it out. But that is wandering here...

Nor did I ever see a Bible in either of the Catholic schools where I was taught religious instruction. I didn't even notice one in the school library. The first Bible I saw other than the one in the church was my grandmother's on my father's side, a devout Anglican. But this by then 12 year old was scared to touch it in case I got told off. The Bible to my mind was a Protestant thing. Protestants were dogs eating bellies out of frogs. At least that is what we chanted every time we passed another school... So long as there were more of us than them.

I wanted to read the Bible as a young boy but I was afraid to... That desire was why for a long time I had planned to become a Catholic priest, so that among other things I could read the Bible myself. There was so much I did not know... in more ways than one. I remember looking forward to the short bits of scripture the priest would read during his "sermon". What about the rest of the Book I would wonder as I listened to the priest speak his message to us. But as a practicing Catholic, I never did.

I was shocked when told that I needed a Bible after becoming a Christian. Now you can judge if you like. But none of my friends had Bibles either. And when I visited their home, there were always numerous Catholic magazines... Church news letters... The local Catholic paper, The Tablet... Missals... Which I know contained some scripture... But never a Bible in evidence anywhere, or spoken of by anyone. In the fifties and early sixties this was common Catholicism as I knew and experienced it... And I don't think that experience varied a great deal among my contemporaries. Nor it seems among the ex Catholics here.

I was not shocked by such differences for though I had never really lived with my father I spent many summer vacations with him during which times I attended the Pentecostal Holiness services with him and all of his family. None of them ever missed a regularly scheduled service without very good reason. I even went to some Camp Meeting Services with them. During those years, while I enjoyed the change of emphasis in those Pentecostal services I was never tempted to make a switch from my Catholicism. That was left to God in His time.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

If by catholic you mean universal, sure. If by catholic you mean roman, no.

It's called the Catholic Church not only by it's own members but also by it's enemies.

 

[epostle]

I grew up in a city that was predominately Catholic, and I remember Mass being conducted in Latin. I don't remember any of the Catholics I knew ever talking about the Bible. I was a heathen. I could have used a good dose of the Bible back then.

>Most of the Catholics I know don't take it seriously. They're worldly and secular and they don't seem to care about Jesus or the Gospel at all.

G.K. Chesterton once said that the best argument against Christianity is Christians. That is certainly true of Catholicism. Pope John Paul II, putting it politely, says, "The Catholic Church does not forget that many among her members cause God's plan to be discernible only with difficulty." (Ut Unum Sint, 11). But is that really an argument against the truth of the faith? I don't see how. To argue that Catholicism is untrue because it doesn't transform the lives of those who don't practice it, is like arguing that aspirin doesn't work because it doesn't relieve the headaches of those who don't take it.

>My family claims to be Catholic, but they don't take it seriously, either.

Try to remember that many people are Catholic by default. If you ask them what they are, they'll say, "Oh, I'm Catholic." But what they mean is, "My ancestors were Catholic." It's more an ethnicity than a religion for some people. It's what they are, not what they believe.

>I agree with the basic teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church. But, I am still in the Baptist church. That is because I don't see enough fruits coming from the Catholic Church.

Actually, it's an individual (not a church) that's supposed to produce good fruit. A church can only proclaim the Gospel and introduce people to the One Who alone can make them bear fruit, but it can't make people believe its teachings, and it can't make people live its life. Good fruit, then, is how we tell if an individual is a faithful disciple. The fact is, you can find plenty of good fruit in the Catholic Church, and you can find plenty of good fruit in the various Protestant churches, too. And that's because the secret to bearing fruit is to have a living, vital relationship with Jesus Christ, who is the source of all grace and life. And because the Catholic Church has been endowed with the fullness of the means of grace that Christ established, a Catholic is able to have the closest possible relationship with Jesus, including even the reality of physical communion with Him.

But notice I say, "is able to have," not "is guaranteed to have." There are indeed plenty of people who call themselves Catholic, but who refuse to believe the Church's teachings, refuse to obey its precepts, and refuse to live the life it calls them to live. Not surprisingly, these people aren't magically converted into living saints just by walking through the Church door. So, if you want to look for fruit, be sure you look on the tree. You can't expect to find fruit on the dried-up branches that have severed themselves from the tree, and that are strewn all about it. I'll be the first to admit that the Catholic faith doesn't work if you don't practice it. It doesn't work by osmosis, or by genetics, or by proximity. You actually have to believe it, and live it. You have to have a living relationship with the Lord Jesus in order to bear fruit, and many "Catholics" have rejected that relationship, despite being given every opportunity to embrace it.

 

[epostle]

>How can the Catholic Church's claims be true when so many Catholics are so dead?

The Church only claims to announce the Good News of Jesus Christ, and it invites everyone to embrace the life of grace He offers. It does not claim that people who spurn its teachings and reject its life will be transformed into faithful disciples anyway. Nor does it claim that being born to Catholic parents guarantees that a person will inherit his parents' faith. If you want to see the fruit of the Catholic faith, you have to look at the people who are committed to the faith, who take it seriously and put it into practice every day. It's pointless to look at those who are cultural Catholics only, who say they're Catholic if you ask them, but who don't try to live the life, even though they may go to Mass out of habit, or guilt, or whatever. People aren't magically transformed into good Christians just by walking into a Catholic church (even if they do it every week). Repentance and conversion of heart are the keys to the Christian life. Without them, everything else is sterile and false, whether one calls oneself "Catholic" or not.
​

>I don't see many truly saved people with transformed lives; instead I see many cultural Catholics that think going to Mass one hour a week will get them into Heaven even though they are living otherwise sinful lives.

I've known such people. It's truly sad. But to compare the best Evangelicals with the worst Catholics is hardly fair. If you want to see the real fruit of the Catholic faith, look at the people who actually put it into practice. As you know, the Catholic Church has produced some of the greatest, most on-fire saints the world has ever known. Some of them converted whole nations to Christ. We still marvel at their faith and holiness many centuries after they died.

>How can I move from such a dynamic soul-winning church that I am in now into such a seemingly dead church seemingly full of untransformed people?


Before I became Catholic, I asked myself the same question, because I'd heard all sorts of horror stories about how dead the Catholic Church was, and since I'd known several Catholics who were as worldly as any pagan, I believed them. So as I became more and more convinced that the Catholic Church taught the truth, I thought, "But Lord, they're all so dead." And then I remembered His words: "What is that to you? You follow me." And I realized that it really wasn't important whether the guy in the pew next to me was living the faith, it was important whether I was. It was as if the Lord was saying to me, "You need to follow the truth, even if you're the only one who does."

>A girl that I am friends with, who has little knowledge of the theological issues between Catholics and Protestants said simply, "I am not a Catholic because they don't emphasize a personal relationship with Jesus." I am sure that many committed catholics such as yourself have vastly different experiences, but you must admit, the problem of simply going through the motions with little understanding of the significance seems rampant in the Church. Am I being unfair?


Yes. As I said, you're comparing the best Evangelicals with the worst Catholics. But I do think it's easier to be a nominal Catholic than to be a nominal Evangelical. Catholicism is an embodied faith. It's very physical, expressing itself through signs and meaningful rituals and practices. Ideally, those practices are joyful ways of expressing the interior reality of God's grace in our lives. They give form and substance to the reality of our faith. But if that reality isn't there, it's still possible to go through the physical motions of the faith because of habit, or whatever. In other words, it's possible to mistake faith's expression for faith itself, as if the outward signs of our faith, and not the reality they are meant to express, are what's important. That does happen, and it's a shame, because going through the motions won't get anybody to Heaven.

On the other hand, Evangelicalism is largely devoid of physicality. It is a religion almost exclusively characterized by intellectual commitment. Therefore, if you don't have that commitment, there's nothing else there, so you leave. This is good in the sense that it focuses on the primary importance of belief and conversion of heart, and because it's more difficult to fool yourself into thinking you're a "good Christian" when you're not, but Evangelicals really are missing something by not having a rich physical tradition with which to express their faith. When you combine real interior faith with meaningful exterior expression, the result is incredible, believe me. And the best Catholics, like the best Evangelicals, know that a personal relationship with Jesus is the goal of the Christian life. We just have a whole lot of ways to express and experience that relationship.

>I spent a summer in Mexico City and a semester in Santiago de Compostela, but with the exception of one little old lady, for all of the students that I met, I can't say that I met any committed Catholics, and this in Catholic countries where virtually everyone would at least say that they are Catholics.

Well, what else would you expect in a "Catholic country"? In some countries, Catholicism is the "default religion." It's what you say you are when someone asks, even if you haven't set foot in a church in years. It's the same with Protestant Christianity in this country. If you ask most Americans what religion they are, they'll say "Well, gee, I'm not Jewish, I'm not Moslem, I'm not Hindu, so I guess I must be Christian." In this country, Christianity is the default religion. And if you ask these people whether they're Catholic or Protestant, most will say "Well, I'm not Catholic, so I guess I must be Protestant." Protestantism is the default version of Christianity in this country. But it would hardly be fair to judge Protestantism based on the people who, if pressed, would say they're Protestants, but who may never have seen the inside of a church, or read a single verse of Scripture. Same goes for judging Catholicism by the so-called Catholics in "Catholic countries."

>And yet the Evangelicals that I met almost always were "set apart," meaning they read their Bibles, took their faith seriously, etc.

In a nominally Catholic country, wouldn't you expect the Evangelicals to stand out? And since they've deliberately chosen a religion other than the default religion, wouldn't you expect them to take it more seriously than those who've opted for the default just out of habit or family tradition?

How Can Catholicism Be True When Catholics Are So Dead?​

 

[amadeus]

@epostle
Much or all of what you posted in #2006 & #2007 is so. I have known a few of those Catholics who presented the picture we should see in all followers of Christ. I have also known a few non-Catholics presenting such a picture. The biggest problem with all people without regard to where they attend or fellowship is their disinterest and even inability to want to move toward the selflessness of Jesus. He provided both the Way and the example. Not many are buying what He really is selling. The price is too high for them. So they, Catholic or Protestant or other, will likely find themselves spit right out of His mouth.

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Phil 2:3

 

[Philip James]

And I realized that it really wasn't important whether the guy in the pew next to me was living the faith, it was important whether I was. It was as if the Lord was saying to me, "You need to follow the truth, even if you're the only one who does."

Indeed!
To many people worry about what 'the guy in the pew next to me' is doing rather than what we, ourselves, are doing.
Do we love the least of our brethren? We who have been forgivin much, do we judge our brethren's hearts?

Pray for one another always!

Peace be with you!

 

[BreadOfLife]

If by catholic you mean universal, sure. If by catholic you mean roman, no.

"Roman" or Latin simply refers to the Rite.

There are some TWENTY Rites that comprise the Catholic Church. Among these are the Roman/Latin, Ruthenian, Byzantine, Melkite, Maronite, Coptic, etc. ALL of them together make up the Catholic Church and the liturgical differences are largely just a matter of ethnic custom.

The official name of the Catholic Church is . . . "The Catholic Church".
It is NOT called the "Roman Catholic Church".

So - if you're a Catholic - you're a Catholic.
If you're not - you're NOT . . .

 

[farouk]

Did His word go forth like rain , yes or no? Is that what Isaiah is saying? Does Christ contradict Himself? Did He lie when He said TRULY,TRULY ?
You will not answer because you know I am right. Enjoy yourself, this is all you got.
Isaiah 55:10-12
Invitation to the Needy
…10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, 11so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it. 12You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.…

Calling Christ a liar is VERY bad but He did say every sin will be forgiven men, any word spoken against the Father and the Son will be forgiven men, BUT BLASPHEMY of the Holy Spirit will not be. Be careful BOL, where you are and where you are heading is NOT good.

Maybe you need different versions that mean all the same thing...... I promise, I mean it, Truly , Truly, VERILY , VERILY, I assure you, you know- without a doubt. I mean clearly you and the "father- in- laws" do not like truth but TRULY, TRULY Christ does not care.

New International Version
Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

New Living Translation
Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

English Standard Version
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Berean Study Bible
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless anyone be born of water and of the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.

New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

New King James Version
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

King James Bible
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Christian Standard Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly I tell you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered: I tell you for certain that before you can get into God's kingdom, you must be born not only by water, but by the Spirit.

Good News Translation
"I am telling you the truth," replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Jesus answered, "I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

International Standard Version
Jesus answered, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

NET Bible
Jesus answered, "I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

New Heart English Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless one is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua answered and said to him: “Timeless truth I am telling you: “If a person is not born from water and The Spirit, it is impossible that he shall enter the Kingdom of God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Jesus answered Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

New American Standard 1977
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

King James 2000 Bible
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

American King James Version
Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

American Standard Version
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Darby Bible Translation
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except any one be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

English Revised Version
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Webster's Bible Translation
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say to thee, Except a man be born of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Weymouth New Testament
"In most solemn truth I tell you," replied Jesus, "that unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

World English Bible
Jesus answered, "Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God!

Young's Literal Translation
Jesus answered, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

You refer to Isaiah 55: great chapter; I was recently reading it in French.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Is their salvation outside of Jesus Christ, should be the real subject.
I would say that one has to be born again to enter into the Kingdom of God. no ones religion will save you.

 

[epostle]

"Roman" or Latin simply refers to the Rite.

There are some TWENTY Rites that comprise the Catholic Church. Among these are the Roman/Latin, Ruthenian, Byzantine, Melkite, Maronite, Coptic, etc. ALL of them together make up the Catholic Church and the liturgical differences are largely just a matter of ethnic custom.

The official name of the Catholic Church is . . . "The Catholic Church".
It is NOT called the "Roman Catholic Church".

So - if you're a Catholic - you're a Catholic.
If you're not - you're NOT . . .

The only reason the inaccurate abbreviation "RCC" is used, after it has been explained 1000 times in this forum why it is inaccurate, is because they know it annoys us. No other reason. Folks, please use "CC". It's less typing.

 

[brakelite]

The only reason the inaccurate abbreviation "RCC" is used, after it has been explained 1000 times in this forum why it is inaccurate, is because they know it annoys us. No other reason. Folks, please use "CC". It's less typing.

I remember as a child tentatively declaring to any one who would listen that I was not a Roman Catholic...I was a new Zealand Catholic.

 

[farouk]

This is beautiful strikes emotion in me.

Shows apparently true repentance from one of the dying thieves. The Lord sees true repentance.

 

[Joseph77]

And there is one big reason I left !!!!!!!!
Going to a bible Church,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, !!!!!!!!!!!! Were I finally got a bible to read not a prayer book !
It is so good to learn What GOD is telling me !! not what a priest was telling me.....
Or back then a NUN !

All the angels rejoice (and all Ekklesia too) whenever ONE SOUL IS SAVED like you !

HALLELUYAH !

 

[brian100]

Going thru the Catholic gate is the entrance. . but say you were baptized like us at the Baptist church, it still the same if it was done the same. But learning the Catholic way gets you to heaven.

Like having one of these.

 

[Joseph77]

Deception multiplies.......

 

[Yehren]

On the other hand, Evangelicalism is largely devoid of physicality. It is a religion almost exclusively characterized by intellectual commitment. Therefore, if you don't have that commitment, there's nothing else there, so you leave. This is good in the sense that it focuses on the primary importance of belief and conversion of heart, and because it's more difficult to fool yourself into thinking you're a "good Christian" when you're not, but Evangelicals really are missing something by not having a rich physical tradition with which to express their faith. When you combine real interior faith with meaningful exterior expression, the result is incredible, believe me. And the best Catholics, like the best Evangelicals, know that a personal relationship with Jesus is the goal of the Christian life. We just have a whole lot of ways to express and experience that relationship.

The most common criticism of evangelical Christianity, is that they have lost a sense of the sacred in their faith. But it's not universally, or even mostly true. Many evangelicals are as alive in Christ as any apostolic Christian (some of whom also lack a feeling for the holy mysteries of God)

I will assume that any Christian connects to the Holy Spirit until he gives me reason to doubt it.

 

[Grams]

The catholic church back in the 1940's........ for me !

I had to go to confession for my sins to be forgiven !!!!!!

Now I know the truth............

Tell GOD I am sorry and will try not to do this again.....

But again we are all sinners ,,,, arent we !