Is this the reason unbelievers don't get a free pass.

[friend of]

Hell is no going to by any hotter for Hitler than for anyone else who rejects Christ

Does the bible not support different degrees of punishment? Satan, for example, is going to be punished more than any other being in existence, imo. I believe Hitler's hell will be worse than another more pedestrian sinner imo Hitler has much more blood on his hands than the average denizen of hell/lof

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Potentially, but not all will accept God's invitation to believe the gospel - unless you believe in universalism.

Ephesians 1:4 (King James Version)

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

 

[Paul Christensen]

Ephesians 1:4 (King James Version)

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

And...?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

And...?

Jesus had a connection to us before we were born. We were in Him. That gives Jesus a way to access all sins.

I feel like removing the sins of the unbelievers kind of takes away from the title of "the savior of the world".

 

[pittsburghjoe]

“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31

I think Jesus gets to judge the world because everyone was involved in what He did.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

i speak as a man up to you what you think this off for we all have different understandings

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Romans 5
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

John 3
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

does not really matter what my opinion is what truly matters is the word and his word is all truth

 

[Grailhunter]

Given that those who believe the gospel and are saved, are elect through the foreknowledge of God (1 Peter 1:2), God knew right from the start who was going to be saved.

Now, I am not supporting predestination here. There is a difference between foreknowledge through the omniscience of God, and God pre-determining who is going to be saved and who is to be reprobate.

Therefore, given that those through God knowing all those who are going to be saved from Adam until Jesus comes again, the names of the elect are already written in the Book of Life. Therefore when Jesus suffered on the cross, He suffered and shed His blood for all those already written in the Book of Life.

I like your ideas.
My beliefs on this matter are speculative. And that is not mine or anybody else's fault. In the Old Testament God was interested in the "Holy Seed"....the Hebrews...Israelites...Jews....pretty much at war against everyone else.

Then we come to God so loved the world...no exceptions given.
1st John 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

Then when most of Jews rejected Christianity it was offered to the rest of the world...Pagan...Gentiles.

But I believe the process of change, in regard to the relationship between God and the world, and sin, and salvation, started with the birth of Christ. I believe it is a progression that is still not complete.

Luke 2:9-12
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

So am I right, was the relationship between God and the whole world changing in the NT? What was going on with sin and salvation, what was happening to sin and salvation upon the advent of Christ's birth, during His ministry...before Christ was crucified and then after and then after He ascended to His Father and then when He appears again...1st John 3:2 "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." What does that all mean?

I believe there were significant changes that were in progress throughout the NT. If I try to explain them, people are just going to say that, that is not biblical...how true! The Bible just does not get into detailed explanations on this. But I have my own beliefs.

 

[amigo de christo]

i speak as a man up to you what you think this off for we all have different understandings

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Romans 5
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

John 3
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

does not really matter what my opinion is what truly matters is the word and his word is all truth

Yes indeed my friend . What truly matters is The word and His word is all truth .
Its such a simple gospel really . JUST BELIEVE and BE SAVED . REJECT and be damned . The scholars of this world can keep
the intellect . I just say , lets stick to the original gospel . AND PRAISE THE HOLY LORD for THE MERCY and GRACE given us IN JESUS CHRIST .
Now let all that has breath , rejoice in and praise the LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Let us be as the true ones have always been through all ages . They didnt ponder over such things ,
they simply knew a TRUTH . And knowing that truth that got up and made desciples of men everywhere they went .
THEY KNEW to be saved , ONE HAD to BELIEVE IN THE ONE WHOM GOD DID SEND . SO they spoke that
and GOD gave the increase . SO lets do the same . AND put those hands up and THANK and PRAISE THE LORD for HIS MERCY
of Grace given us in JESUS CHRIST . SOUND those praises out unto the LORD my friends .

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Did Jesus's crucifixion also create a literal "The Way" to the Truth?

The Cross is dual purposed. Sins of the world and a door to Life.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Romans 5
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Another strong case that everyone was included.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

I like your ideas.
My beliefs on this matter are speculative. And that is not mine or anybody else's fault. In the Old Testament God was interested in the "Holy Seed"....the Hebrews...Israelites...Jews....pretty much at war against everyone else.

Then we come to God so loved the world...no exceptions given.
1st John 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

Then when most of Jews rejected Christianity it was offered to the rest of the world...Pagan...Gentiles.

But I believe the process of change, in regard to the relationship between God and the world, and sin, and salvation, started with the birth of Christ. I believe it is a progression that is still not complete.

Luke 2:9-12
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

So am I right, was the relationship between God and the whole world changing in the NT? What was going on with sin and salvation, what was happening to sin and salvation upon the advent of Christ's birth, during His ministry...before Christ was crucified and then after and then after He ascended to His Father and then when He appears again...1st John 3:2 "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." What does that all mean?

I believe there were significant changes that were in progress throughout the NT. If I try to explain them, people are just going to say that, that is not biblical...how true! The Bible just does not get into detailed explanations on this. But I have my own beliefs.

God the Father took a step back after Jesus ..His representation got here.

We won't be able to sin in Heaven, it isn't going to be exactly like this place. We will be like Jesus ..kind of.

 

[soul man]

• Romans 8:16
• The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
• And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
• For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
• For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
• Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Is this saying The Spirit is aware of everyone, but only those that suffer with Him can be saved? Did Christ suffer the sins of those that eventually turn to God? Does that mean He suffered for all sins of those that can be saved? Would there be a point to Him suffering for hitler's sin?

• Matthew 7:21-23
• 
  
• 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
• 
  
• 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
• 
  
• 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He never knew them ..He would have never have died for their specific sins?

Is this the key to why we have to believe to be saved? Does this answer why Jesus dying for our sins wasn't enough for unbelievers to get a free ride?

First verse, stay with that. The knowledge of good and evil tends to explain everything, so staying out of the dark (if you don't know something) serves a believer better than trying to come up with an answer. Answers are funny, but eventually most are answered by the Spirit.

 

[Taken]

Is this the reason unbelievers don't get a free pass.
OP^

REASON?
Disbelief during natural life.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

How dare I look for the answers.

 

[Truther]

• Romans 8:16
• The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
• And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
• For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
• For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
• Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Is this saying The Spirit is aware of everyone, but only those that suffer with Him can be saved? Did Christ suffer the sins of those that eventually turn to God? Does that mean He suffered for all sins of those that can be saved? Would there be a point to Him suffering for hitler's sin?

• Matthew 7:21-23
• 
  
• 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
• 
  
• 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
• 
  
• 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He never knew them ..He would have never have died for their specific sins?

Is this the key to why we have to believe to be saved? Does this answer why Jesus dying for our sins wasn't enough for unbelievers to get a free ride?

The way to qualify for salvation is to obey Acts 2:38, not just believe. The devils believe....

 

[pittsburghjoe]

For as the [human] body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body [the Body of Christ] , whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the Body [of Christ] is not one member, but many. (1 Cor 12:12-14)

 

[Paul Christensen]

Jesus had a connection to us before we were born. We were in Him. That gives Jesus a way to access all sins.

I feel like removing the sins of the unbelievers kind of takes away from the title of "the savior of the world".

Seems to be a bit of a stretch of the Scripture to me - reading into it more than what it is actually saying using Eisegesis.

So, you don't believe that every person is separated from God and is under condemnation until they embrace Jesus as Saviour, and that there is some good in every human being?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Seems to be a bit of a stretch of the Scripture to me - reading into it more than what it is actually saying using Eisegesis.

So, you don't believe that every person is separated from God and is under condemnation until they embrace Jesus as Saviour, and that there is some good in every human being?

We are already in the body of Christ ..the deal breaker is on opening the door to the Truth/Life. Baptism goes with it of course.

It's a difference of Sin of the Body ..vs the Truth of the Mind.

It’s about reconnecting to God the Father. About not being about ourselves anymore. About not desiring anything from this fallen place.

Do you get that salvation is a two tier system? The sins of the body and knowing the truth. Jesus doesn't give anyone a free pass by dying for their sins. That is only one tier.

Ephesians 1:4
to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Is more evidence that Christ took on the sin of the world. He didn't let it unto us. The word ..the Truth is what we need for reconciliation.

Tiers

• Reconciliation (reconnecting to God), Truth, Life ..The Way
• Sin

It doesn't say reconciliation is forgiven through sin ..it says through THE WORD.

Ephesians 1:4
reconciling the world unto himself
The sins to Jesus ..not reconnecting us to God

not imputing their trespasses unto them;
He didn't let the sins stick to us if we believe

and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The word is the truth. We can rejoin God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

• Romans 8:16 I'm
• The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
• And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
• For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
• For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
• Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Is this saying The Spirit is aware of everyone, but only those that suffer with Him can be saved? Did Christ suffer the sins of those that eventually turn to God? Does that mean He suffered for all sins of those that can be saved? Would there be a point to Him suffering for hitler's sin?

• Matthew 7:21-23
• 
  
• 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
• 
  
• 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
• 
  
• 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He never knew them ..He would have never have died for their specific sins?

Is this the key to why we have to believe to be saved? Does this answer why Jesus dying for our sins wasn't enough for unbelievers to get a free ride?

Just because the scriptures say there will be those who will be saying, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" And the scriptures say Jesus doesn't know them, doesn't mean the Only Begotten Son of God didn't die for them, because God sent his Only Begotten Son to die for the world of mankind.(John 3:16) That means that every person who has lived on earth after Adam and Eve, The Only Begotten Son of God sacrificed his human body, his human life for the world of mankind.
Now we all as individuals must choose to increase our knowledge of the Only True God and his Only Begotten Son so that it influences us to love the Only True God and his Only Begotten Son.(John 17:3)Now we must love them to the extent that we are influences us to exercise faith that they love us and have a plan to save us. That doesn't mean every individual will exercise that kind of faith, some will not grow to love The Only True God and his Only Begotten Son that it influences them to exercise that kind of faith in them and their plan of saving mankind.

Adam and Eve sinned by becoming rebels of the True Gods sovereignty. Look at the statements that the serpent said to Eve in the Garden of Eden in Genesis chapter 3. The things the serpent said we're about the True God and his rulership. We must understand that when Eve listened to the serpent and ate from the forbidden tree she was believing what the serpent said about God and his rulership. When Eve was with Adam she gave her some of the forbidden fruit. However the scriptures show us that Adam wasn't deceived, so he knowingly and willfully sinned against the true God because he didn't have faith the True God could solve this situation in Adams best interests or in a way that was best for Adam. Adam tried to fix it by his own works so he didn't exercise faith in The True God.
This lack of faith in The True Gods sovereignty is the sin of both Adam and Eve.
We have to acknowledge The True Gods sovereignty his way in which he's going to save the world of mankind. Which means we have to acknowledge that there is only one True God and that he has an Only Begotten Son that he sent to the world of mankind as a human in the likeness of the first Adam, a perfect human man. It was a perfect human man that was lost and a perfect human society. When God sent his Only-begotten Son to the world of mankind as a perfect human man like Adam before he sinned he sent him to the world of mankind to buy back that perfect human society by sacrificing his perfect human body his human life, which he did, and was resurrected, a life giving spirit.
The point of all this is that The Only True God sent his Only-begotten Son to die for all of the world of mankind even those who said what they said at Matthew 7:21-23. The scriptures show that Jesus sacrificed his human body, his human life for them too, it's their fault they didn't exercise faith in that ransom sacrifice. We all have to exercise faith in the Only True God Jehovah and his Only Begotten Son Jesus, because Gods Only Begotten Son is the seed that God prophesied he would use to crush the serpents head and undo everything the serpent has done.