Is this the reason unbelievers don't get a free pass.

[pittsburghjoe]

• Romans 8:16
• The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
• And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
• For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
• For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
• Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Is this saying The Spirit is aware of everyone, but only those that suffer with Him can be saved? Did Christ suffer the sins of those that eventually turn to God? Does that mean He suffered for all sins of those that can be saved? Would there be a point to Him suffering for hitler's sin?

• Matthew 7:21-23
• 
  
• 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
• 
  
• 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
• 
  
• 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He never knew them ..He would have never have died for their specific sins?

Is this the key to why we have to believe to be saved? Does this answer why Jesus dying for our sins wasn't enough for unbelievers to get a free ride?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

I'm asking if Jesus died for sins of those that don't believe. Maybe it is only original sin for them ..not their specific sins.

 

[Taken]

I'm asking if Jesus died for sins of those that don't believe. Maybe it is only original sin for them ..not their specific sins.

Jesus died for the sins of the Whole World.
That was Jesus' Act.

There is a Caveat. Salvation is Forced on no one.
Individuals have the OPTION to Accept His Gift of Salvation or Reject Accepting His Gift of Salvation.

What a man does; Accepting or Rejecting, does not change Jesus' Act, nor His Offering of Salvation to the Whole World.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Jesus died for the sins of the Whole World.
That was Jesus' Act.

There is a Caveat. Salvation is Forced on no one.
Individuals have the OPTION to Accept His Gift of Salvation or Reject Accepting His Gift of Salvation.

What a man does; Accepting or Rejecting, does not change Jesus' Act, nor His Offering of Salvation to the Whole World.

Glory to God,
Taken

You are saying the sins can exist twice? One in Jesus and one at the death of an unbeliever? I guess this makes sense if Jesus is the Top Spirit with access to all souls.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Jesus died for the sins of the Whole World.
That was Jesus' Act.

There is a Caveat. Salvation is Forced on no one.
Individuals have the OPTION to Accept His Gift of Salvation or Reject Accepting His Gift of Salvation.

What a man does; Accepting or Rejecting, does not change Jesus' Act, nor His Offering of Salvation to the Whole World.

Glory to God,
Taken

Jesus died for every sin ever, but it only matters to an unbeliever if they acknowledge what Jesus did for them. The Ten Commandments would automatically present itself to someone that knows Jesus is real.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

I'm thinking, without repenting, an unbeliever holds onto their fallen state, original sin, and their own sins. But as I said, I think a copy of it was payed for.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Opening the door to Jesus allows Him to delete your local copy of sins.

 

[Taken]

You are saying the sins can exist twice?

No.
My view is:
Big Picture;
•Sin is that which is AGANST God.
•That Only God Can Forgive Sin.
Yet more indepth- concerning Individuals.
In brief;
...Sin can be IN, or UPON, or WITH, a committed Act of a man....
...(bodily, soul, spirit)
...Sin can be forgiven temporarily or permanently.

Concerning Jesus- Jesus is not sin, could not, can Not commit Sin.
Jesus DID "take upon His Body", the Sins of the world, and then THAT Body physically died, Then that Body rose up, Void of Sin.

Every man who, accepts Jesus' offer, of "Spiritually being bodily Dead, crucified with Jesus;" receives the same Accounting, as their body being dead to sin...
We are , not raised up "yet", ...(that is future)
We .... are actually, temporary using Jesus' risen body...
This person is called;
Forgiven, Converted, Soul Saved, spirit Born Again, "IN" Christ, whole, "walking in the spirit", no longer able to commit Sin, Sanctified (i.e. Set apart), covered, (with Gods Light), NOT "OF" this World, (prepared for Gods Kingdom), Citizens of The Lords Kingdom, Bride of Christ, the Body of Christ's Church, Members of Christ's Church, Faith-ful,
Sealed unto God, sons of God, Friend of Jesus...
Those thing do not Apply to an "unbeliever".
Those things do not Apply to to unsaved souls.
Those things do not Apply to those NOT "Born Again".

One in Jesus and one at the death of an unbeliever? I guess this makes sense if Jesus is the Top Spirit with access to all souls.

All are offered Jesus' Offering.
An Individual accepting Jesus' offering, become "made", those things, just described.

Men, saw The body of Jesus, (the Word of God), face to face...
(The Body, God Prepared, ...(Heb 10:5)
FOR it to be seen, heard and an Example for mankind).

Christ, is the unseen Spirit, Power and wisdom and Seed of God.

Point being...men saw Jesus. No one physically SAW Christ...it is a matter of "knowing" Jesus IS the Christ.
And what men CAN SEE, pertaining to Christ...
IS "the Effects" and "reflections" of His Works.

•We did not SEE the World being made...
But we see the "effects" of what He Created.
•We do not SEE the Moon (it's totally dark).
But we SEE the Reflection of the Moon when the SUN shines on the Moon.
•We do Not SEE a man's, soul, spirit...
But we can SEE the Reflection of The SON, and Effects of a man, that the Light of the Son is upon a man.

(And WHY is that? Because Gods Glory (POWER) IS His Light (POWER) His "Pure Total" Light (POWER) is His, and He GIVES TO NO ONE. (Isa 42: 8)
His Glory IS Spirit, Light, Supreme Power.
We receive His Light, Power, Glory...only by Reflection.


God Bless,
Taken

 

[pittsburghjoe]

No.
My view is:
Big Picture;
•Sin is that which is AGANST God.
•That Only God Can Forgive Sin.
Yet more indepth- concerning Individuals.
In brief;
...Sin can be IN, or UPON, or WITH, a committed Act of a man....
...(bodily, soul, spirit)
...Sin can be forgiven temporarily or permanently.

Concerning Jesus- Jesus is not sin, could not, can Not commit Sin.
Jesus DID "take upon His Body", the Sins of the world, and then THAT Body physically died, Then that Body rose up, Void of Sin.

Every man who, accepts Jesus' offer, of "Spiritually being bodily Dead, crucified with Jesus;" receives the same Accounting, as their body being dead to sin...
We are , not raised up "yet", ...(that is future)
We .... are actually, temporary using Jesus' risen body...
This person is called;
Forgiven, Converted, Soul Saved, spirit Born Again, "IN" Christ, whole, "walking in the spirit", no longer able to commit Sin, Sanctified (i.e. Set apart), covered, (with Gods Light), NOT "OF" this World, (prepared for Gods Kingdom), Citizens of The Lords Kingdom, Bride of Christ, the Body of Christ's Church, Members of Christ's Church, Faith-ful,
Sealed unto God, sons of God, Friend of Jesus...
Those thing do not Apply to an "unbeliever".
Those things do not Apply to to unsaved souls.
Those things do not Apply to those NOT "Born Again".



All are offered Jesus' Offering.
An Individual accepting Jesus' offering, become "made", those things, just described.

Men, saw The body of Jesus, (the Word of God), face to face...
(The Body, God Prepared, ...(Heb 10:5)
FOR it to be seen, heard and an Example for mankind).

Christ, is the unseen Spirit, Power and wisdom and Seed of God.

Point being...men saw Jesus. No one physically SAW Christ...it is a matter of "knowing" Jesus IS the Christ.
And what men CAN SEE, pertaining to Christ...
IS "the Effects" and "reflections" of His Works.

•We did not SEE the World being made...
But we see the "effects" of what He Created.
•We do not SEE the Moon (it's totally dark).
But we SEE the Reflection of the Moon when the SUN shines on the Moon.
•We do Not SEE a man's, soul, spirit...
But we can SEE the Reflection of The SON, and Effects of a man, that the Light of the Son is upon a man.

(And WHY is that? Because Gods Glory (POWER) IS His Light (POWER) His "Pure Total" Light (POWER) is His, and He GIVES TO NO ONE. (Isa 42: 8)
His Glory IS Spirit, Light, Supreme Power.
We receive His Light, Power, Glory...only by Reflection.


God Bless,
Taken

Beautiful what you said, but I'm still confused on the processes of dying for every sin ever and an unbeliever holding on to their own sins. There would have to be a copy of some sort, right?

“And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Is opening the door to God and seeing the light, the same as letting your soul quantum entangle with Him?

Do your sins become His sins via the entangled connection?
​

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Anything entangled with God can be given to Him back in time on the cross.

 

[Nancy]

Pittsburghjoe,
Taken put it very well. I'm only going to add a little example of this free gift.
Let's say a friend called you at work and said, "hey! You don't have to cook for yourself tonight, I ordered you a large cheese and pepperoni pizza at Geno's, right on your way home and, you can pick it up and pay nothing"! That's a free pizza Now, if you decided not to stop for that already paid for pizza, it is still free but you won't be able to partake of that pizza because you refused the gift. That's just my simple thought of the receiving of His gift.
God Bless,
nancy

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Pittsburghjoe,
Taken put it very well. I'm only going to add a little example of this free gift.
Let's say a friend called you at work and said, "hey! You don't have to cook for yourself tonight, I ordered you a large cheese and pepperoni pizza at Geno's, right on your way home and, you can pick it up and pay nothing"! That's a free pizza Now, if you decided not to stop for that already paid for pizza, it is still free but you won't be able to partake of that pizza because you refused the gift. That's just my simple thought of the receiving of His gift.
God Bless,
nancy

Yes, that's good, but does He take on the sin of those that don't stop for the pizza? Is it a two tier system? One of fallen state, the other for specific sins? So you have to open the door to God for both to be forgiven?

 

[Nancy]

Yes, that's good, but does He take on the sin of those that don't stop for the pizza? Is it a two tier system? One of fallen state, the other for specific sins? So you have to open the door to God for both to be forgiven?

He takes on the sin of the world, but individually we must receive the gift He gives us.
And yes, He knocks and we open the door of our lives to Him. Nobody will be called "His" in a fallen state, if you mean rejection of Him. We all falter at times but, the key is simply to just get back up and into the race again.

There is no handle on the outside...only on the inside, He knocks and we either open the door or we don't.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Could eating the fruit have caused two separate evils? A fallen state involving the Spirit, and sin involving the soul.

Are we reconnecting with the Spirit when we open the door to Jesus?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

It's about Truth and Sin, both need fixed for us to be saved. This answers why unbelievers do not get a free ride.

 

[Gregory]

• Romans 8:16
• The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
• And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
• For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
• For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
• Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Is this saying The Spirit is aware of everyone, but only those that suffer with Him can be saved? Did Christ suffer the sins of those that eventually turn to God? Does that mean He suffered for all sins of those that can be saved? Would there be a point to Him suffering for hitler's sin?

• Matthew 7:21-23
• 
  
• 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
• 
  
• 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
• 
  
• 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He never knew them ..He would have never have died for their specific sins?

Is this the key to why we have to believe to be saved? Does this answer why Jesus dying for our sins wasn't enough for unbelievers to get a free ride?

Believers do not get a free ride!

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Believers do not get a free ride!

I just said you need the Truth of the Spirit.

 

[Taken]

[QUOTE="pittsburghjoe, post: 966632, member: 9805]...I'm still confused on the processes of dying for every sin ever and an unbeliever holding on to their own sins. There would have to be a copy of some sort, right?
‬‬[/QUOTE]

Let me try an anology...

Say there are only 100 people in your neighborhood.
And you buy 100 gift cards.
And you announce Those 100 gift cards are for every person in your neighborhood.

Fact 1) you paid for the cards
Fact 2) you offered the gift cards to all in your neighborhood.
Done deal on your part.

50 people come to you and collect their gift card.
10 people die without ever collecting their gift card.
40 people choose not to come collect their gift card...live 10, 20, 30 years, then die, never having collected their gift cards.

Fact- 50 people received their gift cards.
Fact- physically dead people known nothing, can do nothing...they loose out on HAVING "the gift card in their possession",
They loose out on the benefit of the Gift.

The card was still bought and paid for, for them to have, it WAS theirs...they never chose to TAKE your Offering.

It's sort of like that.
Except it's not a "card", it's a promised Gift of Eternal Life with the Lord God.

And accepting that GIFT requires you to "heartfully" believe in Him.
(Because afterall how can one accept a gift from a God, one doesn't believe exists).

Heartful Belief is Key...a True belief from your hearts thought...
Opposed to a Logical Carnal MINDS thoughts.

Carnal MINDS change constantly as we gather new information so thus our everday beliefs about all kinds of things changes.

But our absolute truths in our hearts should remain constant....and WHY it is from the hearts thoughts We confess belief in the Lord God...which is then...followed by receiving of His Gift or (Salvation of our souls and quickening (Born Again) of our spirits.)

It's the hearts confession of belief God Accepts as your absolute truth.

Jer 17:
[10] I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Let me try an anology...

Say there are only 100 people in your neighborhood.
And you buy 100 gift cards.
And you announce Those 100 gift cards are for every person in your neighborhood.

Fact 1) you paid for the cards
Fact 2) you offered the gift cards to all in your neighborhood.
Done deal on your part.

50 people come to you and collect their gift card.
10 people die without ever collecting their gift card.
40 people choose not to come collect their gift card...live 10, 20, 30 years, then die, never having collected their gift cards.

Fact- 50 people received their gift cards.
Fact- physically dead people known nothing, can do nothing...they loose out on HAVING "the gift card in their possession",
They loose out on the benefit of the Gift.

The card was still bought and paid for, for them to have, it WAS theirs...they never chose to TAKE your Offering.

It's sort of like that.
Except it's not a "card", it's a promised Gift of Eternal Life with the Lord God.

And accepting that GIFT requires you to "heartfully" believe in Him.
(Because afterall how can one accept a gift from a God, one doesn't believe exists).

Heartful Belief is Key...a True belief from your hearts thought...
Opposed to a Logical Carnal MINDS thoughts.

Carnal MINDS change constantly as we gather new information so thus our everday beliefs about all kinds of things changes.

But our absolute truths in our hearts should remain constant....and WHY it is from the hearts thoughts We confess belief in the Lord God...which is then...followed by receiving of His Gift or (Salvation of our souls and quickening (Born Again) of our spirits.)

It's the hearts confession of belief God Accepts as your absolute truth.

Jer 17:
[10] I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

God Bless,
Taken

The mind needs to know the Truth of the Spirit. The body needs forgiveness for sin.

Can I say the Truth of the Spirit is the same as reconnecting to God after original sin? ..opening the door?