Is this true?

[VictoryinJesus]

No, it's a judgment Jesus will give to the gentile nations when He returns in glory.

Much love!

What is the divided in Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[ScottA]

My question then is: is the dividing of the sheep from the goats the severing of the old man, that old sin nature, from the new man? And when it says many will be first who were last and the last first …could this be what Paul mentioned of a new conversation being set over the old …no longer ruled by that old conversation we all had in the world according to the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes. Does that question make sense?

Yes, and also the severing of those who are not to enter the kingdom.

As for the first and the last: Israel is first of the chosen to come into the world and who die in their sin (of whom Christ was Last), but they are last to be born of the Spirit; and the last who are first, are last to be born into the world and chosen, but first to be born [again] of the Spirit, of whom Christ was the first.

 

[ScottA]

What has the finial judgement to do with 2 Chronicles 7:12-13?

I think you are missing the point of God's Promise to all of His Saints.

Many promises are also foreshadowings as well--it is a godly principle and a character of God in His dealings toward all who are His. Which things were true of the Temple, are now also true of the Lords body.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I dunno. If it's true that the majority of American's are Christian then the wicked ways part is a curious thing.

But, of course the MAJORITY of Americans ARE NOT, AND NEVER WERE Born Again Christians at all. they're just ignorant "religious TARES" mixed in with born again Christians in the visible churches. so no having been CHANGED by a relationship with God through FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross, and not being infilled by the Holy SPirit, as genuine Christians are, then their "Wicked ways" are "curious" at all - just normal human nature.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, and also the severing of those who are not to enter the kingdom.

still that makes me think of finger pointing while those who are not to enter in…could be that part of us all born after the flesh and not after the Spirit. That part which He says to put off or put away for it doesn’t enter in?

 

[quietthinker]

The following cartoon, which has been shared on Facebook and is based on Charlie Brown rings true for me. It is based around the following scripture: -

2 Chron 7:13-15: - 13 When I shut up heaven and there is no rain, or command the locusts to devour the land, or send pestilence among My people, 14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. ​

Does the cartoon ring true for you?

View attachment 20555

I wonder if Snoopy is reflecting on who is wagging the tail?

so, God will heal their land if they turn from their wicked ways but he won't save them for that reason because that would be working their way to heaven?....and of course what are their wicked ways anyway? The Law that defines their sin is done away with so that can't apply?

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo
To cast out someone is the same as giving up on them. I agree that there are instances where such an action is necessary but when churches and all Christians measure sins individually we won’t find justice, we can only hope to find relief. The instance Paul mentioned, where the son was living with his fathers wife, is directly evil and humiliating towards his father. How can he show up in church, if his son is humiliating him like that, clearly the son and the fathers wife need to be shun/cast out by the church. I don’t agree that remarried people, should be cast out or even homosexuals. Maybe they shouldn’t be members but I think it’s a mistake to shun them, shunning is only for church members who turn out to be imposters.
We need to embrace the sinners and invite them in, regardless of their sin. They already know that they are sinning but real change comes from faith, not from someone telling them that their action is wrong. We will only make disciples if we make room for their journey towards becoming disciples. Let’s not get too busy judging, let’s focus more on controlling our tongues.
People sin with their mouths all the time, but we don’t shun people for that. Freedom of speech and all.

Sin must be corrected . Lambs look out for lambs , we dont just gather with error for the sake of fellowship .
If pastors would actually teach sound doctrine that would have alone helped a great deal .
Then if one is in error let the correction be made . But the problem is most pastors are no longer grave nor preach sound doctrine .
That alone would have been a major help to the church . That alone . Many too are busy lulling their churches to sleep
with songs and shows , and sin is raging wild in the churches and at most all they can say is dont judge just let them be .
Sin and error must be corrected and fast too . When it is known or seen It has to be corrected .
Re read the letter to the corinthians , both letters . See the approach . See how paul also gave them a heads up
to repent , before he had to come and correct . The idea of sin in the church was not good to the early church
they were fast to point to Christ and fast to correct error . I suggest we be the same way .
Lets examine what seeker friendly has done and did to the churches .
They left off correcting . And soon in time began accepting sins and grew only worse .
Wanna know why . Cause when leaven aint purged out , when a church does not mourn and follow the pattern JESUS set
and the apostels set , ITS GONNA LEAVEN .
And leaven indeed they have . This correct not , judge not , DIDNT work out too well , it did exactly what it does .
IT leavens . The easy thing for us all , get back into bibles and really get that pattern dug in deep .
Then we will see a huge difference between how they , meaning the apostels and Christ were , verses HOW todays men are .
And i mean a huge difference will soon be seen . Be encouraged .
But if my son were in error and decided to do something in which the end of that is death , I would have wanted someone to have warned
him NOT TO DO , instead of just being quiet and trying to let him figure it out for himself .
If error or sin is spotted , it must be corrected and fast . Do all for the sake of others . DO all for the good of others .
AND SIN aint good for anyone . Thus correct it and do so asap fast .

 

[Abigail]

But, of course the MAJORITY of Americans ARE NOT, AND NEVER WERE Born Again Christians at all. they're just ignorant "religious TARES" mixed in with born again Christians in the visible churches. so no having been CHANGED by a relationship with God through FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross, and not being infilled by the Holy SPirit, as genuine Christians are, then their "Wicked ways" are "curious" at all - just normal human nature.

God knows. You don't. Who are you to judge the majority of Christians through your lens? And from our beginning. (Never were!) Look in the mirror. That's the only one you need worry about. And even then, God knows the truth. You believe you do. After you die and meet him then you'll find out for sure.
And we shall all account for every word we have said. I think we'll be especially held to what we said while thinking to speak for God.
Yikes. On all our part.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The following cartoon, which has been shared on Facebook and is based on Charlie Brown rings true for me. It is based around the following scripture: -

2 Chron 7:13-15: - 13 When I shut up heaven and there is no rain, or command the locusts to devour the land, or send pestilence among My people, 14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. ​

Does the cartoon ring true for you?

View attachment 20555

I wonder if Snoopy is reflecting on who is wagging the tail?

Well we are not OT Israel and the NT people are a people from all lands! We have no mandate to pray for healing of over 200+ nations. We have a mandate to go and make disciples in all lands and await for His return while we labor.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

God knows. You don't. Who are you to judge the majority of Christians through your lens? And from our beginning. (Never were!) Look in the mirror. That's the only one you need worry about. And even then, God knows the truth. You believe you do. After you die and meet him then you'll find out for sure.
And we shall all account for every word we have said. I think we'll be especially held to what we said while thinking to speak for God.
Yikes. On all our part.

Well we can rest assured that the majority of Americans are not Christians or saved folk! How can we discern? If the people who claim to be Christian weree xChristian we would not have the flollowing:

1. 50+ million children slaughtered in teh womb
2. Alcohol epidemic
3. Drug epidemic.
3. Illicit sex glorified and praised.
4. Homosexuality accpeted as normal.
5. Debt levels that have technically bankrupted america.
6. Teh most materialistic nation on earth!

Plus many others.

So while there are numerous christians in America, if you ask many people why they are going to heaven, far too many give the wrong answer!

 

[Abigail]

Well we can rest assured that the majority of Americans are not Christians or saved folk! How can we discern? If the people who claim to be Christian weree xChristian we would not have the flollowing:

1. 50+ million children slaughtered in teh womb
2. Alcohol epidemic
3. Drug epidemic.
3. Illicit sex glorified and praised.
4. Homosexuality accpeted as normal.
5. Debt levels that have technically bankrupted america.
6. Teh most materialistic nation on earth!

Plus many others.

So while there are numerous christians in America, if you ask many people why they are going to heaven, far too many give the wrong answer!

With regard to your political points, America isn't a Christian Theocracy. This is why it isn't governed by the Bible. Were it so, there would be no divorce, people would be prosecuted for their sins by law. Point 1: How many homeless babies have you fostered or adopted? Point 3, the first point 3 in your list, has always been an issue in this world. Always. And it isn't evidence the majority of American's are not Christian.

Point 3: There are many a Christian who have drug issues. Those who are dependent on pain killers for example. Do you also judge them as not being real Christians?
Point 2: There is no Biblical scripture that forbids consumption of alcohol. And alcoholism is a disease. Do you judge people with a disease as being unworthy of being judged by you as real Christians?

Point 5 is a non-sequitur to the discussion of what "qualifies" as being Christian. As is 6. If you're against materialism sell everything you have and live on the streets. Including your vehicle. Christian=Christ like. Jesus, while rich, as prescribed by the gifts given at his birth by the wise men from the east, walked everywhere he went.

You work too hard to stand as judge of America and American's.

Flip this script to an American Theocracy reporting. Man stoned to death for desecrating the Bible and Blasphemy.
How many of us read this and think, pagans! Demon worshipers! Of course this is going to happen!
Remember. This is a Theocratic religious rule operating on the principles of a holy book. Just like you think would be ideal and better for America. Only the holy book would be the Bible. Where there are many a passage in both the Old and New Testaments regarding stoning to death for offenses against God.
All those points in your list? All stone worthy punishments if we're going by the laws of the Bible.
Another thing. We can't insist the OT laws no longer apply, some of us insisting the 10 Commandments don't either, and on the other hand argue America would be better if we governed by Biblical principles. Because those are God's laws.
Ever witnessed someone being stoned to death? In person, not the movie version.
It's ugly. And evil.
Man accused of blasphemy, desecrating Quran stoned to death by mob in Pakistan


Now let us move from Islam. Anyone remember your history regarding the Inquisition? (Both Catholic and Protestant)
Imagine if America was a Christian Theocracy:
Pastor Greg Locke says devil revealed identity of 6 witches in his church during exorcism

A pastor has a one on one with a Demon?

 

[Jay Ross]

Well we are not OT Israel and the NT people are a people from all lands! We have no mandate to pray for healing of over 200+ nations. We have a mandate to go and make disciples in all lands and await for His return while we labor.

Thanks for your point of view concerning our difference to the OT Saints. The Salvation Covenant has not changed, even from the time of Adam. Jesus actually referenced this covenant in Matt 13:52 for those who have eyes to read and understand, but todays Christians and wanting a "Brand New" Salvation Covenant because the Greek word "kaina" actually has the meaning of "like new," but our translators have translated this word as if it is "neo", that is "new" with respect to age.

Since the time of Adam, all people are a candidate for the Second death at the final judgement before Christ at the end of the AGE of the ages.

The basis for our judgement is whether or not we have accepted the Salvation Covenant that Christ has presented to us, which will also be the same Salvation Covenant that will be presented to the Israelites at the time of the Armageddon Judgement of the kings of the earth and the wicked fallen heavenly hosts.

The covenant described in Jer. 31:31 is not a "brand new" covenant for Israel to become a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations, as the first Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations covenant entered into at Mt Sinai, as God intends to make like new again for the Israelites the same covenant with a few tweaks to bring it into line with the changes that came about because of His Sacrifice on the Cross for the sins for all of mankind.

Now you said: - " We have no mandate to pray for healing of over 200+ nations." but then went on to made this statement of our purpose,: - "We have a mandate to go and make disciples in all lands and await for His return while we labor." The strange part is that, part of the Salvation process, requires the repentance of our sins and the turning away, of the people in those lands, from their wicked ways. Reports that I have read of Salvation coming to people in those multitude lands, is that God brings healing to the respective lands when people begin to humble themselves and repent of their "sins" and turn from their wicked ways.

You say that you are not Old Testament People, yet the very process you apply in making disciples of the peoples in other lands, is found in 2 Chronicles 7:13-14.

The sad part is that unless you personally demonstrate, to the people who you want to make disciples of for Christ, what is contained in 2 Chron. 7:13-14 you will be called a hypocrite for not practicing what you preach.

Shalom

 

[Curtis]

Correct we should warn any members in any sin to repent asap quick and if they heed not , cast them out till they do .
Its the only pattern that works .
Ps , be encouraged . I am gonna let the digital world in on a lil secrete .
I noticed you spoke about divorce and etc .
By grace i never remarried , due to it would be adultery . YEP . I agree we need to be warning against all sin
not picking and choosing what sin to cover up and what sin to expose . Expose it all for the sake of the church .

Divorce for the two biblical reasons of adultery or a non believer abandoning the marriage, isn’t a sin - and even if one divorced wrongly and realizes it later, repentance to God gets it forgiven AND FORGOTTEN, so the believer can still remarry.

People act like improper divorce is the unforgivable sin.

 

[Curtis]

Thanks for your point of view concerning our difference to the OT Saints. The Salvation Covenant has not changed, even from the time of Adam. Jesus actually referenced this covenant in Matt 13:52 for those who have eyes to read and understand, but todays Christians and wanting a "Brand New" Salvation Covenant because the Greek word "kaina" actually has the meaning of "like new," but our translators have translated this word as if it is "neo", that is "new" with respect to age.

Since the time of Adam, all people are a candidate for the Second death at the final judgement before Christ at the end of the AGE of the ages.

The basis for our judgement is whether or not we have accepted the Salvation Covenant that Christ has presented to us, which will also be the same Salvation Covenant that will be presented to the Israelites at the time of the Armageddon Judgement of the kings of the earth and the wicked fallen heavenly hosts.

The covenant described in Jer. 31:31 is not a "brand new" covenant for Israel to become a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations, as the first Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations covenant entered into at Mt Sinai, as God intends to make like new again for the Israelites the same covenant with a few tweaks to bring it into line with the changes that came about because of His Sacrifice on the Cross for the sins for all of mankind.

Now you said: - " We have no mandate to pray for healing of over 200+ nations." but then went on to made this statement of our purpose,: - "We have a mandate to go and make disciples in all lands and await for His return while we labor." The strange part is that, part of the Salvation process, requires the repentance of our sins and the turning away, of the people in those lands, from their wicked ways. Reports that I have read of Salvation coming to people in those multitude lands, is that God brings healing to the respective lands when people begin to humble themselves and repent of their "sins" and turn from their wicked ways.

You say that you are not Old Testament People, yet the very process you apply in making disciples of the peoples in other lands, is found in 2 Chronicles 7:13-14.

The sad part is that unless you personally demonstrate, to the people who you want to make disciples of for Christ, what is contained in 2 Chron. 7:13-14 you will be called a hypocrite for not practicing what you preach.

Shalom

Matthew 13:52 is referencing the kingdom of heaven, and not any covenants.

The Jeremiah 31 new covenant was put into effect with the death of Jesus.

It’s a new covenant, not an old one recycled.

In fact it’s a better covenant founded on better promises than the old one.

 

[amigo de christo]

Divorce for the two biblical reasons of adultery or a non believer abandoning the marriage, isn’t a sin - and even if one divorced wrongly and realizes it later, repentance to God gets it forgiven AND FORGOTTEN, so the believer can still remarry.

People act like improper divorce is the unforgivable sin.

First two were good . but lets not entertain that third scenario . For fornication or a non believer abandoning it . Them two are correct .
There is but one way to fix a marriage of adultery . GOTTA cease it , repent of it .
But as you said the two reasons , aka adultery fornication , or an unbeliever leaving . Of course if the spouse dies , then its okay as well .

 

[Jay Ross]

Matthew 13:52 is referencing the kingdom of heaven, and not any covenants.

Matt 13:52: - Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things old and yet renewed."​

My Paraphrase.​

Curtis are you well instructed concerning the Kingdom of Heaven to be able to make the comments you did on Matt 13:52?

The Jeremiah 31 new covenant was put into effect with the death of Jesus.

It’s a new covenant, not an old one recycled.

In fact it’s a better covenant founded on better promises than the old one.

Again, are you well verses as to when the Jer 31:31 covenant will be put into effect?

This is what Jeremiah records: -

Jer, 31:31-34: - 31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make like new again a covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah — 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."​

The facts of the matter is that the Jer. 31:31-34 covenant will not be renewed with the House Israel and the House of Judah, until they humble themselves and repent of their collective sin of continual idolatrous worship during the past four ages, then God will heal them by the sprinkling of water over them to make them clean so that they can become a Kingdom of priests, a holy nation and God's possession among the nations.

Reading scripture using the filters of our peculiar understandings leads us all astray. Your flawed understanding quoted above demonstrates this for me.

Shalom

 

[Curtis]

Again, are you well verses as to when the Jer 31:31 covenant will be put into effect?

Extremely well versed, because Hebrews explicitly says the Jeremiah 31 new covenant took effect with the death of Jesus, who is currently mediating it.

I’m pretty sure I already posted the relevant scripture from Hebrews.

 

[Curtis]

First two were good . but lets not entertain that third scenario . For fornication or a non believer abandoning it . Them two are correct .
There is but one way to fix a marriage of adultery . GOTTA cease it , repent of it .
But as you said the two reasons , aka adultery fornication , or an unbeliever leaving . Of course if the spouse dies , then its okay as well .

The way it’s fixed is to repent of it, and it’s forgiven and forgotten.

 

[Jay Ross]

Extremely well versed, because Hebrews explicitly says the Jeremiah 31 new covenant took effect with the death of Jesus, who is currently mediating it.

I’m pretty sure I already posted the relevant scripture from Hebrews.

Seems like we will have to agree to disagree. The Translators have translated the Greek root "kainos" using only the word "new" rather than using the English expression, "like new" which puts a very different spin on our understanding. "Neos" on the other hand is understood to be "new" with respect to age such that Christ is the "neos"/new mediator of the "refurbished" salvation covenant.

The Covenant that is referred to in the Book of Hebrews is the making like new again for the Jewish Nation the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations covenant, where the processes for the duties of the priesthood and salvation has been tweaked a little with respect to covering of the Blood of Christ that removes our transgression rather than the Blood of animals in the Salvation Covenant which has existed from the beginning of mankind and which I believe that Jesus was referring to in Matt. 13:52.

Of course you can disagree with my understanding of how our relationship with God should work, but I am secure in my relationship with God and am happy that God has refurbished the covenant by which our salvation is gained.

Shalom

.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Point 2: There is no Biblical scripture that forbids consumption of alcohol. And alcoholism is a disease. Do you judge people with a disease as being unworthy of being judged by you as real Christians?

Alcoholism is not a disease! You do not catch alcoholism, nor are you genetically predisposed to be an alcoholic. those are urban legends.

Drugs have always been around, but not in the kind of levels we see in America.

Crime is rampant- that would not be in a "Christian Nation where the majority of voting adults are believers! Sorry, but even with the divisions within the church saved, we would vote for much stringer laws.