Is Universalism true?

[TonyChanYT]

Universalism is the belief that everyone will be saved eventually.

Jesus says in Matthew 25:

46 "these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Some will go to eternal punishment; others to eternal life.

Will everyone have eternal life?

No, John 5:

28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Is universalism true?

I doubt it. To be on the safe side for myself, I would not rely my salvation on it. To be on the safe side for others, I would not tell others that universalism is true.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Uh, no.... universalism is not true.

Many adherents of the false doctrine of once saved always saved.... start believing in universalism

 

[L.A.M.B.]

If universalism is true, God lied, and failed in sending his Son as a propitiation for the sins of those who believe & repent of their sins !
John 3:
18] He that believeth on HIM is NOT condemned: but he that believeth NOT is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

These being the words from the Son's lips since he and the Father are one, would void his gift of salvation!

The lovers of the evil deeds of darkness will be cast into outer darkness, NEVER TO SEE THE LIGHT, that has come into the word to dispell the darkness & chains of sin.

2 Corinthians 6:
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, NOW is the accepted time; behold, NOW is the day of salvation.)

 

[FaithWillDo]

Universalism is the belief that everyone will be saved eventually.

Jesus says in Matthew 25:


Some will go to eternal punishment; others to eternal life.

Will everyone have eternal life?

No, John 5:


Is universalism true?

I doubt it. To be on the safe side for myself, I would not rely my salvation on it. To be on the safe side for others, I would not tell others that universalism is true.

Dear Tony,
Scripture clearly says that Christ will save all mankind. He has the "will" to do it and He has the power to do it.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (the Elect of this age). 24 Then cometh the consummation (the balance of mankind at the end of the final age), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

How can you read the scriptures above and believe that most of mankind will not be saved?

The reason most Christians don't believe that Christ will save all mankind is because they believe the gift of salvation is limited to this age. It is not. The only thing limited to this age is being a heir/first fruit. They are called the Elect because they were chosen for this honor.

Another reason most Christians don't believe Christ can save all mankind is because they believe that a person must contribute to their salvation by at least making a confession of faith from their supposed "free will" ability to do so. And because most of mankind in this age won't make this confession of faith, they believe they won't ever be saved. This belief is also not true.

Here is the truth according to scripture: salvation comes to a person solely by the work of Christ within them. Christ is the one who decides when and to whom He will give (without their asking or permission) the free gift of the Holy Spirit. Until Christ gives a person the Spirit, they will only reject Him. But after Christ gives them the Spirit, they will only accept Him as their Lord and Savior.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

This is the only way a person can be saved because no person has the ability to understand Christ or to seek Him out in their current carnal spiritual state of being:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

For this reason, no saved person has anything to boast about concerning their salvation. It was truly a free gift from God.

In this age, Christ is not working to save all mankind. He is only saving those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world. For this reason, they are said to be "blessed". They are also called the "first fruits" of Christ's harvest of mankind because they are harvested early. The great and final harvest of mankind will occur at the end of the next and final age (at the "consummation").

Read Joel chapter 2. It teaches the events of the final age. Christ's army are the Elect who are reigning with Him. But before the "lost" are destroyed, Christ will "pity" them and pour out the Early and Latter Rains which will give them faith and salvation. Christ does this because of what this verse teaches:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Justice is served by the destruction of the person's carnal spiritual nature which causes them to sin. Mercy and faith are served by Christ giving them the free gift of the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit, they will be "born again" and will have a new holy and sinless spiritual nature. This spiritual process is called conversion. The old must be destroyed and replaced by the new.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Mankind was created as a marred vessel. The flaw is in mankind's spiritual makeup which is "weak". Because it is weak, the physical body rules over us and makes us carnal. It is man's carnal nature that is responsible for our sinning. For this reason, Christ will give us the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit. Because the Spirit is powerful, it will not allow us to sin.

In scripture, the symbols "earth" and "heavens" represent mankind's carnal nature and carnal mind. Peter says that they will be destroyed by fire (judgment) and replaced with a new earth and a new heaven. For that reason, Rev 21 shows the Elect as having a new earth and a new heaven. We must have a new earth and a new heaven to be saved. This conversion requires that Christ give us the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of Fire.

Until a person can understand that salvation is a free gift from Christ and that it does not require any work from us to have it, they cannot believe that Christ can actually save all mankind.

Consider this verse:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Do you really believe that mankind has any say in their own salvation? God sent Christ to save the world and that is exactly what He will do:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Where is your faith to believe God's Word?

Joe

 

[TonyChanYT]

How can you read the scriptures above and believe that most of mankind will not be saved?

No.

 

[FaithWillDo]

No.

Dear Tony,
Where is your faith to believe God's Word?
Joe

 

[TonyChanYT]

Where is your faith to believe God's Word?

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that I can't read the scriptures above and believe that most of mankind will not be saved or will be saved. I simply do not know how many people will be saved.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that I can't read the scriptures above and believe that most of mankind will not be saved or will be saved. I simply do not know how many people will be saved.

Tony,

Consider what this scripture teaches:

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL HAVE all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I know some people want to translate the phrase "will have" (thelo) as "desires", BUT that makes no sense. The verse needs to say "will have" to support the event that will later be "testified" to have happened. The word "desires" does not require anything to be accomplished. It is an emotion. And if Christ only desires to save us, why would it need to be proven to be true at some future date? An emotion can be proven in the present. The translation of "desires" (or any other word) in verse 4 makes no sense in light of the phrase "to be testified in due time". The only reasonable conclusion is that the verse says that Christ will save all mankind and have all mankind come unto the knowledge of the truth. When that day arrives, Christ's word will be testified to be true.

Even if a person translates "thelo" as "desires", it doesn't change the meaning of the verse since God ALWAYS gets all His desires. Since God desires to save all mankind, it will happen.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

If you think that mankind's "will" is too strong for God to overcome, then you would be wrong:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

God's work of saving mankind is now spiritual work which means it is done within mankind. God accomplishes His "will" by changing man's heart to match His "will".

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

A person's salvation ONLY happens in response to the work which Christ does within us. When Christ comes to us, He gives us the gifts of the Holy Spirit and Faith. Until that happens, NO ONE can understand God or even have a desire to seek Him out.

Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

In this lost condition we all have from birth, the ONLY WAY for a person to be saved is for Christ to come to us and change us from within. Once Christ gives us the Holy Spirit (unknowingly to us), we ALWAYS confess Him as Lord. We can't reject Him or call Him accursed.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Paul is the pattern for how Christ saves the Elect:

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Paul “typed” how a person is saved as he travelled the road to Damascus. At that time, Christ came to Paul uninvited and gave him the Early Rain of the Holy Spirit. Upon receiving the Spirit, Paul immediately fell to the earth and called Jesus "Lord".

This event of the Early Rain of the Spirit is how an unbeliever becomes a believer. It is not by their Free Will choice that it happens. Paul hated Christ and was on his way to persecute Christians. He had no intention of becoming a Christian himself. But Paul did become a Called Out Christian because it was God's "will" for it to happen.

Christ came to Paul uninvited and did His work within Paul, without Paul's permission. Paul wasn't even aware that Christ did this work within him because it was spiritual work which could not be seen with human eyes. But we do know that it happened because of the evidence of Paul's confession and his willingness to obey Christ.

This is the only way an unbeliever can become a Christian because man's spiritual condition from birth is marred. This marred spiritual condition causes us all to become carnally minded. This is why mankind sins. Even Adam and Eve were carnally minded before they sinned and in fact, it was the reason why they sinned. And as God's Word says, the carnal mind hates the ways of God and cannot understand Him. Nor does the carnal mind seek God out from its own choice to do so. Mankind is utterly lost and cannot do anything to save themselves. Because of this truth, Christ MUST come to us and do all the work of saving us and He does so without our invitation or permission.

God created mankind subject to vanity without our permission and He will make us righteous without our permission:

Rom 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

God made us spiritually marred and He will make us into a New Vessel without our permission:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, AS SEEMED GOOD TO THE POTTER to make it.

Our God truly loves us and will do all that is necessary to save us. He does His work within us and changes our hearts and minds to accept Him.

Joe

 

[MatthewG]

Hello TonyChan,

I believe that God has reconciled the world unto himself through Christ.

Because God has been able to do this because of sending the Word of God, which was made flesh named Yeshua, Immanuel, who had a will of his own decided to love the Father, and to love others while carrying out what his Father willed for him to do. He did to the fullest extent of his heart, and willingly died for humanity and paid the price of sin, by fulfilling the old covenant law perfectly, and because of his death, and his resurrection, so to shall all mankind be resurrected. Now where a person stays, be it inside or or outside the Kingdom, is one of personal faith, in the Lord who makes one right with God because of his righteousness, wisdom, and sanctification who is to us the Lord Yeshua Christ, the Son of God, the Son of Man. Therefore I believe people can still come to understand christ in the afterlife, and the flames that come from God, are from his love that he continues to speak throughout the afterlife as people who are of faith dwell with him, and perhaps we can go help the lost out there too?

There is a resurrection of Condemnation, and a resurrection to Life, which Jesus promised, and these would be the houses which are the new houses which a persons resurrected soul will live in a spiritual body built just for them. Will they be glad in what they recieve? If God is good and only gives good gifts, then who is to say? Would you be happy with your eternal housing when you look at your relationship with God?

Sin is taken care of, for all people. Universal salvation is something that is a given from Christ Jesus, however it all depends on ones faith, and did they love God, and others by the spirit. If a person has yet to believe they are still spiritually dead, but those who come to Christ will be made alive now today on earth by building up ones spiritual body as they go about praising, and praying and seeking faithfully God out.

In the end I personally see a Heavenly Kingdom that is set up with believers, of the truth, the way, the life, and also there are people who may be faithless outside the kingdom walls.

 

[TonyChanYT]

I know some people want to translate the phrase "will have" (thelo) as "desires"

Let proposition P1 = Judas Iscariot will inherit eternal life according to Jesus.

True?

 

[FaithWillDo]

Let proposition P1 = Judas Iscariot will inherit eternal life according to Jesus.

True?

Dear Tony,
Yes, Judas will be saved in the final age with the rest of the lost. No one is too sinful to be saved.

Paul considered himself to be the chief of sinners, yet Christ saved him in a moment of time.

All mankind sins and the penalty for our sin is death (not eternal torment in fire). For that reason, all mankind is condemned already. To be saved, we must be "born again" because the old vessel (carnal mankind) is headed for destruction.

Do you understand the conversion process that I have been explaining in my other posts?

Joe

 

[TonyChanYT]

Yes, Judas will be saved in the final age with the rest of the lost.

Let proposition P1 = Judas Iscariot will inherit eternal life according to Jesus.
P2 = Judas Iscariot will not inherit eternal life according to Jesus.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

How can you read the scriptures above and believe that most of mankind will not be saved?

Sadly, some people refuse to accept and believe ALL that the Lord says about salvation which leads to false doctrines such as OSAS and universalism

Here's something Jesus said that universalists ignore and play like he didn't say:

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Let proposition P1 = Judas Iscariot will inherit eternal life according to Jesus.
P2 = Judas Iscariot will not inherit eternal life according to Jesus.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

Dear Tony,

First let me say that only the Elect will "inherit" life (during the ages). The rest of mankind will be saved but they will not inherit anything. They will not be an heir. They will suffer that loss but they will be saved, "yet so as by fire".

1Cor 3:13 Every man’s work (all mankind) shall be made manifest: for the day (the Day of the Lord) shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward (being an heir). 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Back to your proposition. All mankind (including Judas) will be saved. Only the Elect though will receive the reward of life during the ages. So on your scale, the salvation of Judas being saved is a 10. It is 100% certain to happen.

Jesus Christ never fails at anything. The Father sent Him to save the world and He will save the world - every person who has ever lived.

Consider what Christ said to the chief priests and elders who crucified Him:

Mat 21:31 Which of the two was obeying his father?" They replied, "The first, of course." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I assure you, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do.

It was never in doubt that Christ was going to save the chief priests and elders. But they will not be an heir or a first fruit of His harvest. They will be saved at the end of the final age when Christ brings in the final harvest of mankind. They will suffer the loss of not having life during the ages but they will still enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Consider this verse, too:

Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”

Again, the salvation of all mankind was never in doubt. Those who have not been chosen for salvation in this age, will receive it in the final age after they have "paid the last penny" (full destruction of their carnal nature). Then they, too, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. After the last person is saved, Christ will deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to the Father and God will then be "all in all" (1Cor 15:20-28). How can God be all in all if most of mankind is not saved?

The definition of sin is to "miss the mark". The Father sent Christ to save the world. If Christ fails to save even one person, He would be missing the mark His Father set and that would be a sin. Do you believe that Christ is a sinner? I'm sure you would say no - but your belief that Christ is not going to save the world is making Him out to be a sinner. Can you understand that?

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Sadly, some people refuse to accept and believe ALL that the Lord says about salvation which leads to false doctrines such as OSAS and universalism

Here's something Jesus said that universalists ignore and play like he didn't say:

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Dear Big Boy Johnson,
Christ is talking about salvation in this present age. Only a "few" are chosen and will enter the narrow gate before they die. The rest of mankind will go to be destroyed (destruction) in accordance with the Law. But before they die, Christ will have mercy upon them and pour out the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit upon them.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ is not like mankind who judges without justice, mercy and faith. He will not pervert judgment as evil mankind does:

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

When Christ judges mankind, they will be blessed by it and be saved:

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Joe

 

[TonyChanYT]

First let me say that only the Elect will "inherit" life (during the ages).

At this point, I am interested in how much you actually believe what you have said. Please stay focused.

Let proposition P1 = Judas Iscariot will inherit eternal life according to Jesus.
P2 = Judas Iscariot will not inherit eternal life according to Jesus.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

 

[FaithWillDo]

At this point, I am interested in how much you actually believe what you have said. Please stay focused.

Let proposition P1 = Judas Iscariot will inherit eternal life according to Jesus.
P2 = Judas Iscariot will not inherit eternal life according to Jesus.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

Tony,
Since I said that Judas's salvation is a 10, his not being saved has to be 0.
Joe

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

When Christ judges mankind, they will be blessed by it and be saved:

One has to be deceived and be ignoring a lot of what God's Word teaches... to believe that.

God is not saving those that reject Him and refuse to submit their lives to Him. Sorry.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Tony,
Since I said that Judas's salvation is a 10, his not being saved has to be 0.
Joe

Are you willing to bet based on your weight assignments?

 

[Wick Stick]

I don't know.

The Bible seems to have some conflicting information on this subject. I lean towards Annihilation.