But you do claim that a Christian can never ever never never lose their salvation... right?
Dear Big Boy Johnson,
You said:
But you do claim that a Christian can never ever never never lose their salvation... right?
Teaching that to other is a license to sin and is a stumbling block to other believers.
My answer is yes and no. What you don't understand is that Christ comes to a person TWO times in order to save them. The first time Christ comes to a person, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is a small amount of the Spirit that gives the person a measure of faith and certain spiritual gifts. With this measure of faith, the person will call Jesus "Lord" and will enter the church. However, the Early Rain will leave the new believer spiritually blind and carnally mind. In other words, the Early Rain will not convert the person. The churches of the world are full of Early Rain believers who are spiritually blind and do not know Christ.
Because the new believer is spiritually blind, Satan quickly takes advantage of this weakness and masquerades as Christ to them. He does this by planting his seed of the spirit of anti-Christ within them. With this false spirit, the new believer will be deceived and will begin following another Jesus and another gospel which mixes works with faith. When the believer does this mixing of works and faith, Christ says that they are trying to follow two masters.
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Note: Satan's way of salvation which he teaches is by works. This is the "crooked way". For that reason, Satan is called the crooked serpent. Christ's way of salvation is solely by faith in Him to perform all the necessary works of a person's salvation. This is called the "straight way".
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After a believer mixes works with faith, they will
fall from grace (lose their salvation) and become "worse than the first" (
Mat 12:43-45). This happens to 100% of all new believers shortly after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit. Paul calls this "worse than the first" spiritual condition a "man of sin". In Rev chapter 13, John presents the man of sin as a Seven Headed Beast with 10 horns and 10 crowns. The crowns represent that the beast (the fallen away believer) is controlled by Satan via the second beast. The second beast is a symbol for the spirit of anti-Christ. When the spirit of anti-Christ indwells the believer, the Abomination of Desolation will occur within God's temple (the believer). The fallen away believer will remain in this "man of sin" spiritual condition until they die or until Christ comes to them a second time.
If the fallen away believer is one of the Elect, Christ will "come again" to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the fallen away believer will be "born again" and will have their spiritual blindness healed. After it is healed, they will see the Abomination of Desolation which had previously occurred when the spirit of anti-Christ indwelt them. Also at this time, the man of sin will be revealed to them and they will know that they are this man of sin. After they have this knowledge, judgment will fall on the believer which will remove the spirit of anti-Christ and their carnal spiritual nature (symbolized by the Great Harlot) from within them.
Christ said it this way:
Mat 24:40 Then shall two (one flesh, one believer) be in the field; the one (Man of Sin) shall be taken, and the other left (child of God). 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one (the Great Harlot, carnal nature) shall be taken, and the other left (the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit).
Those who are "taken" will then be destroyed in the Lake of Fire. This is presented in Rev 19:20.
After the believer has received the Latter Rain and has the spirit of anti-Christ and Great Harlot removed from within themselves, they are "converted". Once a believer has been converted,
they will never fall away again and lose their salvation.
You said:
Well your "discernment" is out of whack as I don't claim on must work to earn their salvation.
I have never met a person who believes in the Doctrine of Hell and doesn't mix "works" with faith. I'm sure you are no exception.
Let me ask you this: Why are some people never saved? Why does this happen? Who is responsible?
You said:
Sin that leads to death literally means one can sin and be separated from the Lord and if they die in that condition they will burn in hell.
The only sin that leads to death is the sin of mixing works with faith. When a believer does this, they are saying that Christ's sacrifice on the cross was not sufficient to save them. They believe that they must add to Christ's work so that they are worthy of their salvation.
Paul said it this way:
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
In the verses above, Paul uses the example of circumcision because it was the issue at hand. But any "work" that a person adds to the work of Christ will cause them to fall from grace. When the person falls back to "works", Paul says that they then become a debtor to keep the whole law, which of course they cannot do.
Understand this: The Old Covenant of Law is outward and is based upon man's works. The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is inward (spiritual) and is based solely upon the works of Christ. In other words, Christ will do 100% of the works that are necessary to save a person. He is the one who causes them to make a confession of faith and to perform works of faith. The individual contributes nothing.
That is why Paul said this:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Christ's work is
spiritual work which he does
within us (between our ears so to speak). He is the one who gives us the answer from our tongue to make a confession of faith. He is the one who causes us to walk by faith and to be like Him. We are His "workmanship" and therefore, we have nothing we can boast about concerning our salvation. He does everything for us and through us.
As I have been saying, until Christ chooses to come to a person and do His works within them, they cannot be saved. Mankind is carnally minded and the carnal mind has nothing but hatred for God and His ways:
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Since mankind's salvation comes to them solely by the work of Christ, Christ has the power to save us all. And since He comes to us because of His grace (unmerited favor), there is nothing that we can do that will cause Christ to not come and save us.
Scripture teaches that Christ has a plan to save all mankind.
In this age, Christ is only saving those who have been chosen for salvation in this present age. They are the Elect and they are few in number. They did nothing to deserve this honor - they were simply blessed by God to satisfy in own plan and purposes for this creation. In the next age, Christ will use His Elect to bring in the remaining harvest of mankind. This great day is "typed" by the Feast of Tabernacles and it will occur at the very end of the final age. It is at that time that Christ will have pity on those who are being judged by the Law in the Lake of Fire.
Christ and His Bride will then make this call to them:
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
After the call goes out, Christ will pour out the Holy Spirit upon the lost and save everyone of them.
This scripture will then be testified to be true:
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Joe
