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Featured Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by charity, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Those who received “THE word.”
    WHOSE word?? PETER’S word.

    Read this statement in its proper context. WHAT was Peter’s word??
    He said:

    Acts 2:37-40
    Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?”
    Peter [said] to them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
    For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.”


    THEN, it says . . .
    Acts 2:41
    Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand persons were added that day.


    They accepted the condition for salvation which was repentance AND Baptism.
    The forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit was contingent on BOTH repentance AND Baptism.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  2. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hi @JPPT1974,

    Believing God concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ is what it is all about yes! Praise God! :)

    You have expressed what water baptism means to you, and I thank you for that: but what does baptism mean according to the Scriptures? Is it what God requires of us?

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  3. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @BreadOfLife,

    Forgive me for stepping in here instead of @Nondenom40, but I want to consider what is said here too.

    * Looking back at the climax of the words given through Peter, to see what caused them to be, 'pricked in their heart':-

    'Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
    that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart,
    and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles,
    "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"'

    (Acts 2:36)

    * No wonder they were, 'pricked in their heart'!

    'Then Peter said unto them,
    Repent, and be baptized every one of you
    in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
    and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
    and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying,

    "Save yourselves from this untoward generation."
    Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
    and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.'
    (Acts 2:38-41)

    *
    Like John the Baptist (Mark 1:4), Peter here preaches the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, adding that they will receive - 'the gift of the Holy Ghost'. So we have the reason given to us for the need for repentance and baptism here, as, 'for the remission of sins.' There are many who believe that this is the formula for salvation, that if one repents and is baptised they are saved, but is this so?

    * Salvation is the result of believing in Christ, ie., Who He is, the Son of God, not of water baptism. The message of salvation is given in John 3:16,

    'For God so loved the world,
    that He gave His only begotten Son,
    that whosoever believeth in Him
    should not perish,
    but have everlasting life.'

    (John 3:16)

    * They were to be baptised - 'in the name of Jesus Christ' , showing that they believed in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God. This declaration was what saved them, and not the water they were to be immersed in. The receiving of the gift of Holy Ghost evidenced the fact that they had been separated unto God for service.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Grailhunter likes this.
  4. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    It's a question of accounting one's old life to be past, indeed; it's not a matter of the Holy Spirit using water to bring new life when the symbol is applied.
     
  5. Nondenom40

    Nondenom40 Active Member

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    Precisely, the word they received was Peters preaching. Not rocket surgery. They hear the gospel, receive it and are born again...THEN we are baptized. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation. Its a step of obedience after we are saved.
     
  6. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

    Ok, in your own words, why should we be baptized?
     
  7. Nondenom40

    Nondenom40 Active Member

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    Didn't you read my post? Its in there. Why was Jesus baptized? For the remission of sin? For salvation? There is an answer for that too. Care to venture a guess?
     
  8. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    So, because the Baptism of Jesus was not about the remission of sins, baptism has what effect on you and me?
     
  9. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    That's obvious! Is it your contention that it only applies to the Jews?
     
  10. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritual life". The passage does, however, indicate that belief and baptism precede being saved.
     
  11. Nondenom40

    Nondenom40 Active Member

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    Why do you think He was baptized?
     
  12. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    The Catholic Church absolutely teaches that believing in Christ is what saves us- IF you understand the BIBLICAL definition of “belief”. Let’s examine what the Bible says about “Belief”.

    James tells us that belief – as a mere intellectual assent - is worthless because even the DEMONS believe. (James 2:19) If you do that – you’re no better off than the demons. The Bible tells us over and over again that TRUE belief – what we call “Faith” is much more than this. It is complete surrender and obedienceNOT just an intellectual assent.

    TRUE faith = Belief + Surrender/Obedience.
    This is how the Bible measure the “Belief” of a Christian:

    - Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
    - Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
    - Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
    - Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
    - Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
    - We must suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

    John 6:40
    says:
    For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

    This is exactly what He was talking about . . .
     
  13. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    If you describe the Catholic church position correctly, you are doing them no favors.

    You are mixing light with darkness. You are translating spiritual matters with natural definitions (not rightly dividing the word of truth), and calling a completely spiritual belief "intellectual." It's not.

    John 3:6
    "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
     
  14. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    If ALL you do is “believe” – then you are NO better off than the demons.
    This is what the entire chapter of James 2 is about.

    Biblical Christian faith is MUCH more than this.
    To Jesus your belief is worthless unless you are willing to pick up your cross daily and follow Jim.
    Belief is something that even DEMONS do.

    Cooperating with God’s grace is something that only HIS sheep will do . . .
     
  15. CovenantPromise

    CovenantPromise Active Member

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    1 – Isaiah Describes the Messiah (Jesus) as a Servant
    The Old Testament prophet Isaiah speaks of the coming “Messiah” as a servant. In his writing, the prophet points out the characteristics of a servant-leader.

    Isaiah wrote,

    “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight;
    I will put my Spirit on him,
    and he will bring justice to the nations.
    He will not shout or cry out,
    or raise his voice in the streets.
    A bruised reed he will not break,
    and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
    In faithfulness, he will bring forth justice;
    he will not falter or be discouraged
    till he establishes justice on earth. In his teaching the islands will put their hope.” (Isaiah 42:1-4,)

    In these words, the prophet is pointing out the unique characteristics of a servant-leader.

    It was for Christ and John to fulfill all righteousness. That is why God gave Himself as the humble Christ. To show us how we as humans can please Him . Christ who had no sin was baptized to fulfill the righteousness of God the Father , to show us what we must do to be saved. WATER Baptism is an essential part of salvation.

    2 – Jesus Describes Himself as a Servant in His Teaching
    In three of the Gospels, Jesus refers to himself and his ministry in the world. Also, in these three passages of scripture, Christ lays out the characteristics of real servanthood.

    • “ For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” – Mark 10:45
    • “…I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. – John 6:38
    • “For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.” – Luke 22:27
    Jesus points out in these three scriptures some truths about servanthood. He teaches that a real servant leader

    • does not seek service for themselves
    • aims to serve others
    • does not propose to do his own will
    • does not promote himself
    Unfortunately that cannot be said of many who call themselves pastors, shepherd , priest etc.... Not saying there are not those who really do serve just stating most lack a humble heart.
    3 – Jesus Shows Himself as a Servant By His Actions
    Matthew 3:13-15
    The Baptism of Jesus
    13At that time Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” 15“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.” Then John permitted Him.…

    ANOTHER ACTION AS A HUMBLE SERVANT John 13:
    13 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

    2 The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. 3 Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; 4 so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.

    6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”

    7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”

    8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.”

    Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”

    9 “Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!”

    10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.” 11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.

    12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

    Many people do not readily accept the idea of becoming a servant.

    Simon Peter had a difficult time allowing Jesus to wash his feet. This action was the role of the “servant.” Jesus made it clear to Simon that this was foundational for all that he had taught the disciples.
    4 – The Apostle Paul Describes Jesus as a Servant
    In his letter to the first-century church at Philippi, the Apostle Paul had this to say about the servant role of Jesus,

    “Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.” – Philippians 2:6-7

    Paul also taught the early Christian believers that servanthood and humility work together. He wrote about the example that Jesus set.

    “And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!” – Philippians 2:8

    Therefore, Paul points out to the believers that Christ’s example of servanthood is one of the most influential messages of the New Testament church.
    I could continue. It is clear Christ was baptized not because he had any sin but to teach the servants HUMANS it is righteousness to OBEY what He decrees. We who have sin, become like Him by following His lead and learn how to be pleasing humans to God the Father. Not complicated.
     
  16. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Acts 11:15-17 KJV
    [15] And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. [16] Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. [17] Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?


    Tecarta Bible
     
  17. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    I think that Christ was telling the truth when answered John the baptist, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness."

    If you get into speculation I know of three....still they are speculations. Because the scriptures do not elaborate.
     
  18. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    James was clear, but you apparently are not.

    "Belief" pertains to the heart, but works (actions) are not "belief." James spoke of what grows out of the good ground of belief. But works is not the measure of salvation...it is simply a natural response in this worldly setting. Doing good works is good. But being "natural", works have nothing to do with the kingdom or salvation...for perfection require nothing. Salvation is perfection in God.
     
  19. CovenantPromise

    CovenantPromise Active Member

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    You pick and chose of scripture and avoid the full Context. Peter was describing what happen in Joppa in a dream and how he was told by God to go to the gentiles. When He entered the house of those gentiles.......

    That is back in Acts 10:46-48
    The Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit
    …46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God. Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.…

    If the gentile after had refused Water Baptism they would have been cut off. They would have never done that. And God giving the gentiles the holy Spirit in the form of tongues, was encouragement for Peter to accept the gentile into the fold. It was not customary , this order, but was essential to help Peter who was a Jew for the Jews. He and the Jews who went with him needed a little push to know it is the Father's will to accept the gentiles. It in no way makes light of the necessity of water baptism.That is why Peter says this:47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!”
    But as I said, if they did not really believe , they would be like Protestants and would not have received the Holy Spirit to begin with. But since they REALLY BELIEVED THE GOSPEL (THE GOOD NEWS), they sent for Peter through prayer to God to be BAPTIZED BY HIM IN WATER. That was the purpose of the gentile's prayer. And they Got that and more! God answered the gentile's prayer and called Peter and told Him to EAT , while showing Peter all that which Jews saw as unclean. The gentile wanted to be part of the covenant, it was God's desire when he made the promise to Abraham , that they should be.
    Genesis 17:4-
    "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you.

    Recap :why did the gentile pray? To have Peter come to them and baptize them with water in the Holy Spirit. Why did God say yes to their request: Because of His promise to Abraham. Why did Peter go?, because God told him. Why did Peter need encouragement? Because he was a jew for the Jews and needed a little push to fulfill the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  20. CovenantPromise

    CovenantPromise Active Member

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    It is about faith and works:
    James 2:
    17So too, faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one.Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?g 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God.24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

    Faith and works are ONE as GOD is ONE!
     
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