Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

[reformed1689]

Acts 2:38 has oth repentance AND baptism in the imperative commanding both.

Romans 6 one must first be baptized then one walks in 'newness of life'.

1 Cor 1:12-13 Paul shows for me to be "of Christ" Christ must have been 1) crucified for me and 2) I must be baptized in the name of Christ. Both must be true before on can be of Christ. Hence no one can be "of Paul" or any other man for neither are true of anyone but Christ.

Gal 3:27 baptism is how one gets in Christ and puts on Christ.

Eph 5:26 and Tts 3:5 both require a "laver of water" in order to be cleansed/saved.

Col 2 God does the work of removing the body of sin when one is buried in baptism.

Let me ask you this, someone accepts Christ and before they are baptized, for sake of argument let's say they are on their way to be baptized, they get in a car accident and die. Are they saved?

 

[Nondenom40]

Let me ask you this, someone accepts Christ and before they are baptized, for sake of argument let's say they are on their way to be baptized, they get in a car accident and die. Are they saved?

I feel a "yes but....." coming. Same as catholics. Many things are necessary yet they all have a loophole.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Let me ask you this, someone accepts Christ and before they are baptized, for sake of argument let's say they are on their way to be baptized, they get in a car accident and die. Are they saved?

From what the Bible teaches, no. God has chosen baptism as the point of salvation, remission of sins. Circumstances as you described do not change God's word. I understand that "accepting" Christ means doing what Christ has said in believing Jn 8:24 repenting Luke 13:3 confessing Mt 10:32-33 and being baptized, Mk 16:16. One has not accepted Christ until one does what Christ..as Christ said 'why call ye Me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say'. Christ is Lord of those who do as He says.

What if an atheist were in an airplane that was about to nose dive into the ground at 500 mph. Moments away from perishing this atheist begins to thing there is a higher power and life after death yet dies in the crash not knowing who or what to believe. Had he lived a little longer he would have come to believe in Christ. Will God save him anyway?

 

[reformed1689]

What if an atheist were in an airplane that was about to nose dive into the ground at 500 mph. Moments away from perishing this atheist begins to thing there is a higher power and life after death yet dies in the crash not knowing who or what to believe. Had he lived a little longer he would have come to believe in Christ. Will God save him anyway?

That's not the same thing.

And yes, the person in MY example would be saved. There is not a single verse that makes baptism a requirement for salvation. The Acts passage do you know the multiple ways that passage is understood and why? It does not mean baptism is part of salvation. You engage in baptism BECAUSE of your salvation because it is the sign of your salvation.

 

[historyb]

Entire households were baptized when they heard the word preached, believed and were born again. Babies don't have the capacity to understand the gospel. Nowhere in the n.t. is there one baby baptized. This is simply eisegesis on the part of those that think getting wet saves anyone.


No, its biblical. When a person is saved, then they are baptized, not before. Thats why its called believers baptism.

Not quite true. Entire households meant children and babies, man hates historic Christianity so added that they all believed first but it does not say that.

 

[Ezra]

man hates historic Christianity

even some christian history can be in error..i know those who reply on ECF . i do read history but rely on myBible to backit up

 

[n2thelight]

Not Catholic. When a baby is baptized it is good, does not matter if a baby knows. Entire households were baptized in the Bible and the practice of baptizing babies goes back to the beginning. It is a tradition of man that people must understand baptism, it is not a practice or understanding of the historic Church.

Yes it does matter,also baptism means 2 be submerged not a sprinkle of water

 

[n2thelight]

But 2 answer the question again, baptism is not necessary,analogy you about 2 die never being baptized and you ask Christ in your life,will He deny you because of that???

 

[Nondenom40]

Not quite true. Entire households meant children and babies,

And you can prove this right? Does my household have children and babies? Since you seem to think thats what 'entire households' means.

man hates historic Christianity so added that they all believed first but it does not say that.

What bible are you reading?

Acts 10:44-47

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" NASB

Those baptized HAD, past tense, received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 16:30-34
30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.NASB

What must i do to be saved? Notice his answer isn't 'get baptized'? But the word was preached, then they believed, then they were baptized. And not a thing about infants or babies since they don't have the capacity to understand the gospel. One believes THEN they are baptized. The unbiblical practice is to place water baptism before hearing the word or being saved in the first place.

 

[reformed1689]

Entire households meant children and babies

You have to make an assumption there was a baby in that specific household that was being referenced. It does not say babies. That being said, they still all had to believe. Babies do not have that ability so we can safely infer there were no babies there.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

That's not the same thing.

And yes, the person in MY example would be saved. There is not a single verse that makes baptism a requirement for salvation. The Acts passage do you know the multiple ways that passage is understood and why? It does not mean baptism is part of salvation. You engage in baptism BECAUSE of your salvation because it is the sign of your salvation.

If you can create a "circumstance" that can get around the necessity of baptism, then there is no reason a "circumstance" can't be created to get around the necessity of believing. Now we can be guided by "circumstances" rather than what the Bible teaches. circumstance trumps the Bible.

But of course circumstances do not change what the Bible teaches. You say my circumstance is "not the same thing" that being because you have a bias against the necessary of water baptism being necessary.


Acts 2:38 baptism is (eis) FOR the remission of sins and not because one sins have already been remitted.

1 Timothy 1:16 one believes on Him (eis) unto everlasting not NOT because already has everlasting life.

Heb 11:7 Noah built an ark (eis) unto the saving of his house NOT because his house was already saved from a flood that had not yet happened.

 

[Marymog]

I don't say there was no such thing as water baptism.
I was water baptised myself.

I do NOT believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation....which is what the subject of this thread is all about.

Hi Helen,

Your POV is common among Reformation Christians but not all Reformation Christians believe what you believe.

Do you believe it is necessary to follow the example that Jesus gave us? If you believe it is necessary to follow His example then water baptism is necessary for salvation. (Matthew 3:13-17)

Do you believe it is necessary to do what Jesus told us to do? If you believe it is necessary for us to do what Jesus told us to do then water baptism is necessary for salvation. (Matt. 28:18-20)

Do you believe it is necessary to adhere to the sound doctrines, whether by word of mouth or letter, of the Apostles? If you believe it is necessary to adhere to the teachings of the Apostles then water baptism is necessary for salvation. (Acts 10:46-48)

Do you believe the earliest Christians adhered to the teachings of the Apostles or the 16th century Christians teachings adhere to their teachings? If you believe the earliest Christians, the ones who were alive when the Apostles walked the earth, would be right on this matter then water baptism is necessary for salvation because that is what they taught/practiced. (Didache chapter 7)

I prayerfully hope you will reconsider your stance on this matter.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[reformed1689]

If you can create a "circumstance" that can get around the necessity of baptism, then there is no reason a "circumstance" can't be created to get around the necessity of believing. Now we can be guided by "circumstances" rather than what the Bible teaches. circumstance trumps the Bible.

But of course circumstances do not change what the Bible teaches. You say my circumstance is "not the same thing" that being because you have a bias against the necessary of water baptism being necessary.


Acts 2:38 baptism is (eis) FOR the remission of sins and not because one sins have already been remitted.

1 Timothy 1:16 one believes on Him (eis) unto everlasting not NOT because already has everlasting life.

Heb 11:7 Noah built an ark (eis) unto the saving of his house NOT because his house was already saved from a flood that had not yet happened.

You need to do a word study on eis and what it actually means and its usage. It is not used to say for as in a requirement.

 

[Marymog]

Thanks for admitting my <theory is the teaching of men from the 16th century>, viz., of a Protestant although it so happened the Reformers remained Roman Catholics as far as baptism was concerned.

Your welcome?

Sooooo another theory of yours is that any Reformers that remained Roman Catholics as far as baptism was concerned were wrong? Your theory suggest that the further Christian teachings get AWAY from the teachings of the CC the more right they are.

Sooooo the men who disagreed with the Reformers (the Reformers of the Reformers) are more right??? How many Reformations do we need before we as Christians come to the Truth?

 

[Marymog]

And it is another LIE this here. NO Scripture and NO historical 1st century Christian writing suggests water is necessary for the baptism commanded and authorized by Jesus Christ. STOP be headstrong.

So says you. The 2,000 year teachings of Christianity disagrees with you.

Why are you being so headstrong and denying 2,000 years of teaching and accepting a 500 year teaching?

 

[reformed1689]

any Reformers that remained Roman Catholics as far as baptism was concerned were wrong?

Absolutely.

Your theory suggest that the further Christian teachings get AWAY from the teachings of the CC the more right they are.

Nope. Some Catholic doctrine is correct.

How many Reformations do we need before we as Christians come to the Truth?

Until we rely on the truth of Scripture and not the Wisdom of man.

 

[Marymog]

Kindly tell which <Scripture that speak of water baptism> COMMISSIONED BY JESUS CHRIST OR THE APOSTLES.

I thought you knew Scripture? Looks like you got some studying to do.

 

[reformed1689]

So says you. The 2,000 year teachings of Christianity disagrees with you.

Why are you being so headstrong and denying 2,000 years of teaching and accepting a 500 year teaching?

Teaching of men, not Scripture.

 

[Nondenom40]

Hi Helen,

Your POV is common among Reformation Christians but not all Reformation Christians believe what you believe.

Do you believe it is necessary to follow the example that Jesus gave us? If you believe it is necessary to follow His example then water baptism is necessary for salvation. (Matthew 3:13-17)

Why was Jesus baptized? Believers baptism is a step of obedience. Nowhere does it say that its necessary.

Do you believe it is necessary to do what Jesus told us to do? If you believe it is necessary for us to do what Jesus told us to do then water baptism is necessary for salvation. (Matt. 28:18-20)

Jesus gave all of us a job to do. We will bear fruit, some 100, some 60, some 30. What does that suggest to you? The person that bears only 30 is just as saved as the one that bore 100.

Do you believe it is necessary to adhere to the sound doctrines, whether by word of mouth or letter, of the Apostles? If you believe it is necessary to adhere to the teachings of the Apostles then water baptism is necessary for salvation. (Acts 10:46-48)

I cited that passage above in post # 689. Kindly tell us where its said its 'necessary'? It doesn't.

Do you believe the earliest Christians adhered to the teachings of the Apostles or the 16th century Christians teachings adhere to their teachings? If you believe the earliest Christians, the ones who were alive when the Apostles walked the earth, would be right on this matter then water baptism is necessary for salvation because that is what they taught/practiced. (Didache chapter 7)

We know why catholics rarely cite their sources. They don't say what they want them to say.

The Didache;
Chapter 7 - Concerning Baptism

1. And concerning baptism, thus baptize ye: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. 2. But if thou have not living water, baptize into other water; and if thou canst not in cold, in warm. 3. But if thou have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. 4. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but thou shalt order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

(from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 7, PC Study Bible electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Where is the necessity in this chapter?

I prayerfully hope you will reconsider your stance on this matter.

Respectfully, Mary

Ditto..

 

[Marymog]

Why was Jesus baptized? Believers baptism is a step of obedience. Nowhere does it say that its necessary...

Isn't being obedient NECESSARY?