Islam is NOT a religion of Peace

[River Jordan]

This is the delusion that is repeated and preached as truth, though it is entirely false. Those who believe that the penalty for apostasy is death are in the majority. In fact, polls taken in Egypt, Pakistan, and other nations dominated by Islam show super majorities of Muslims believing that violence in the name of Islam is justified, that death should be prescribed for many religious crimes including homosexuality, blasphemy, and converting to another faith. In Western nations such as the UK, surveys have shown a stunning majority believe that Sh'ria law should be implemented in Western nations.

Do you have a link to those surveys?

You're in good company with the lie that you keep breathing life into. Bush said the same thing repeatedly. There seems to be a political correctness about Islam that doesn't want to acknowledge the truth about all these "peaceful" Muslims. The gaping silence from Muslims when violence is committed seems to teach you people nothing. Christians wouldn't tolerate a tiny fraction of the atrocities committed by Muslims if they were committed by Christians instead. If one abortion clinic is bombed, the condemnation of the act is loud, widespread, and systemic. The sheer absence of such condemnation among Muslims sends a very clear message that you people continually ignore.

I guess it really depends on what information you're aware of. I see Muslim groups condemning such things all the time. And I recall that Eric Rudolph received quite a bit of support from the local Christian community (they even helped hide him) and there were a lot of expressions of support for the murderer of Dr. Tiller. Of course too we have a lot of Christian groups working in parts of Africa to help them pass laws that make homosexuality punishable by death.

And I wonder about communities in the US with large Muslim populations. Do you believe the Muslims are just biding their time, secretly plotting to....I don't know....take over the US and implement Sharia Law? Are they just laying low, hiding their true agenda?

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Do you have a link to those surveys?


I guess it really depends on what information you're aware of. I see Muslim groups condemning such things all the time. And I recall that Eric Rudolph received quite a bit of support from the local Christian community (they even helped hide him) and there were a lot of expressions of support for the murderer of Dr. Tiller. Of course too we have a lot of Christian groups working in parts of Africa to help them pass laws that make homosexuality punishable by death.

And I wonder about communities in the US with large Muslim populations. Do you believe the Muslims are just biding their time, secretly plotting to....I don't know....take over the US and implement Sharia Law? Are they just laying low, hiding their true agenda?

1. This should keep you busy: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

2. It's clear that like all deluded Leftists, you see what you want to see. You'll continue to insist that Islam is a religion of peace no matter how many bombs they set off, minorities they oppress, or people they kill. It's called invincible ignorance, allegedly incurable.

 

[thomasleonard]

I agree with @ThisValeOfTears
People have to be seriously deluded and ignorant if they shrug off so many others opinions and the truth which lay right in front of them.
When people say that Christians and Muslims worship the same God, it is utter Ludacris and insulting. Muslims worship a different god, my truths are found in the Quran and also the bible, they are hardly like each other and they both propose different lifestyles and teachings.
Jesus is a prophet to Muslims but not a god. Our god is Jesus Christ, we are too different things. That surely sets us apart.
We worship Jesus and the heavenly father our one and only true God, not allah.

 

[River Jordan]

1. This should keep you busy: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

I'm always amused when someone makes some claims and then cites data that directly contradicts those claims. The poll results at that website show that what you described earlier are minority, not majority, opinions in the Muslim community. The World Survey Report your website cites actually states at the beginning...

"Large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians, whether in the US or in a Muslim country, though there has been some softening in the numbers who hold this view strongly. Most reject the argument that such attacks are the only way to get the US to listen to the Islamic people and a growing percentage perceive them as an ineffective method for achieving political ends. As a general principle large majorities reject the use of violent methods such as bombings and assassinations to achieve political goals"

2. It's clear that like all deluded Leftists, you see what you want to see. You'll continue to insist that Islam is a religion of peace no matter how many bombs they set off, minorities they oppress, or people they kill. It's called invincible ignorance, allegedly incurable.

I take that as "I'm going to ignore everything you posted". Typical.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I'm always amused when someone makes some claims and then cites data that directly contradicts those claims. The poll results at that website show that what you described earlier are minority, not majority, opinions in the Muslim community. The World Survey Report your website cites actually states at the beginning...

"Large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians, whether in the US or in a Muslim country, though there has been some softening in the numbers who hold this view strongly. Most reject the argument that such attacks are the only way to get the US to listen to the Islamic people and a growing percentage perceive them as an ineffective method for achieving political ends. As a general principle large majorities reject the use of violent methods such as bombings and assassinations to achieve political goals"

Like a typical Leftist, you read what you wanted to. You ignored, 83% of Pakistanis support stoning adulterers, 78% of Pakistanis support killing apostates Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam, 76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam. NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;

So for the record, yes the link I provided proves what I claimed. You're reading comprehension problem isn't my problem.


I take that as "I'm going to ignore everything you posted". Typical.

That's funny, YOU accusing me of that. Funny indeed!

 

[River Jordan]

This is what you claimed...

"polls taken in Egypt, Pakistan, and other nations dominated by Islam show super majorities of Muslims believing that violence in the name of Islam is justified"--Not supported by the data.

"that death should be prescribed for many religious crimes including homosexuality, blasphemy, and converting to another faith"--Supported by the data (in some countries, but not others)

"In Western nations such as the UK, surveys have shown a stunning majority believe that Sh'ria law should be implemented in Western nations"--Not supported by the data.

You have about a 33% accuracy rate (or a 66% baloney rate).

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

This is what you claimed...

"polls taken in Egypt, Pakistan, and other nations dominated by Islam show super majorities of Muslims believing that violence in the name of Islam is justified"--Not supported by the data.

"that death should be prescribed for many religious crimes including homosexuality, blasphemy, and converting to another faith"--Supported by the data (in some countries, but not others)

"In Western nations such as the UK, surveys have shown a stunning majority believe that Sh'ria law should be implemented in Western nations"--Not supported by the data.

You have about a 33% accuracy rate (or a 66% baloney rate).

Now you're just playing games, by any objective (as in not yours) standard. I might not have gotten the exact nations right off the top of my head, by the link I provided proved my claim (other nations dominated by Islam) that proves majorities polled supporting death and violence for religious crimes. Now you've gone from being wrong to willfully lying on record for everyone reading this thread to see for themselves. We're done here.

 

[River Jordan]

Oh my goodness....that is soooooooooo funny!

"I may have not been right with what I said...and that just proves you're a liar!"

Hilarious. :lol:

 

[aspen]

hmm...

Catholics usually understand the History of Christianity well enough not to shoot their mouths off about which religions are more violent than their own.

Guess there is always the exception.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

hmm...

Catholics usually understand the History of Christianity well enough not to shoot their mouths off about which religions are more violent than their own.

Guess there is always the exception.

1. You don't talk to many Catholics, that's clear
2. I would compare the history of Christianity to that if Islam any day because unlike you, I actually know those histories
3. Most people who aren't raging, mindless Leftists are more concerned about what religions to today than what the Catholic Church did 900 years ago.

You don't represent Catholics in your deranged, Leftist ideology, but I'm certain in you're mind, you think you do.

 

[KingJ]

I'd be careful about characterizing and judging a faith by the actions of its most extreme elements. One day we may find ourselves judged by the same standard.

I would gladly accept correction if I believed my God made it legal for men to get away with having sex with a nine year old girl, beating their wife and rape.

Good Muslims ignore Muhammad's teaching.

 

[River Jordan]

I think you missed the point; There's not a shortage of people calling themselves "Christian" and then doing some pretty extreme and awful things. Should the entire faith be judged by their actions? Should all other Christians be judged by their acts? No? Then why is it acceptable to do the same thing to another faith?

 

[StanJ]

All I know, is that the Muslims who live in North America, for the most part, do NOT believe in violence and say it is NOT in the Quran. Those who abuse it as the KKK did with our Bible, do NOT truly represent the faith of Islam. Regardless, Islam is a false religion just like Buddhism or Mormonism is.

 

[KingJ]

I think you missed the point; There's not a shortage of people calling themselves "Christian" and then doing some pretty extreme and awful things. Should the entire faith be judged by their actions? Should all other Christians be judged by their acts? No? Then why is it acceptable to do the same thing to another faith?

You repeatedly miss the point that VOT raises. Are you purposely playing dumb?

I could kill 1000 people and blame it on you. What will the judge say? Hopefully not what you suggest above but rather...where is the evidence that River is to blame.

Muslim = follower of Muhammad = rapist, murderer, paedophile, merciless torturer etc etc = more then ample evidence to link Islam to the evil.
Christian = follower of Christ = turn the left cheek, love your enemies, died for those who hate him = no evidence to link Jesus to ANY evil.

Conclusion: Both the faith and the individual must be judged...properly!. Any Christian killing in the name of Jesus in a Christian country goes to court and gets life or chair.

All I know, is that the Muslims who live in North America, for the most part, do NOT believe in violence and say it is NOT in the Quran. Those who abuse it as the KKK did with our Bible, do NOT truly represent the faith of Islam. Regardless, Islam is a false religion just like Buddhism or Mormonism is.

You are an intelligent man Stan. You know as well as I do how stupid the underlined is. When a Muslim is not a follower of Muhammad they may have a case.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. (so peaceful, is there another way to read this? Is there context we are missing?)

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist). Is there a scripture that says they must live at peace with infidels? I can't find it...The OT has Lev 19:34

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." (so peaceful to kill someone based on race, I can feel the love).

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror' and this is the bottom line. Jesus is the COMPLETE OPPPOSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[River Jordan]

Ok then, what should be done? Should Islam be outlawed and all Muslims locked up and/or killed? The extremist elements in Islam want a war with Christianity and the West, and it seems like some of you guys want it too.

 

[StanJ]

You are an intelligent man Stan. You know as well as I do how stupid the underlined is. When a Muslim is not a follower of Muhammad they may have a case.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. (so peaceful, is there another way to read this? Is there context we are missing?)

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist). Is there a scripture that says they must live at peace with infidels? I can't find it...The OT has Lev 19:34

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." (so peaceful to kill someone based on race, I can feel the love).

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror' and this is the bottom line. Jesus is the COMPLETE OPPPOSITE!

Taking the above OUT of context does not help to support your contention KJ..... Jesus said; "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force." Matt 11:12, and if you take His words out of context I'm sure a lot of deluded Christians could do the same as the KKK did years ago, as those deluded terrorists of Islam do what they do today.

The Quran STATES; “..Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.” (al-An’am 6:151)

Context is everything KJ, in both the Bible and the Quran, despite the fact that the Quran is false teaching, it is not as those of your ilk try to portray it here.

 

[KingJ]

Taking the above OUT of context does not help to support your contention KJ..... Jesus said; "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force." Matt 11:12, and if you take His words out of context I'm sure a lot of deluded Christians could do the same as the KKK did years ago, as those deluded terrorists of Islam do what they do today.

The Quran STATES; “..Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.” (al-An’am 6:151)

Context is everything KJ, in both the Bible and the Quran, despite the fact that the Quran is false teaching, it is not as those of your ilk try to portray it here.

You make a point Stan, but lets be honest now.... It is one HELL of TINY point. Anyone can grasp Matt 11:12's context in light of the cross. If not, we just need one verse from Him Matt 26:52. I will accept correction from you if you show me the text that ''justifies'' Muhammad below. These are VALID gripes.

1. He said Allah hates those who don't accept Islam. (Qur'an 30:45, 3:32, 22:38) ....John 3:16
2. Stoned women for adultery (Muslim 4206)
3. Permitted stealing from unbelievers.(Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)...Matt 19:18
4. Permitted lying. (Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)..Matt 19:18
5. Owned and traded slaves. (Sahih Muslim 3901)...1 Tim 1:10
6. Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys. (Sahih Muslim 4390)
7. Murdered those who insulted him. (Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)
8. If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him" (Qur'an 2:194)
9. Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold. (Muslim 4645)..."Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God" Mat 5:9.
10. Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves. (Bukhari 5:268, Qur'an 33:50)
11. Slept with a 9-year-old child. (Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)
12. Ordered the murder of women. (Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)
13. "O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness." (Qur'an 9:123)...Matt 5:5
14. Killed captives taken in battle. (Ibn Ishaq 451)
15. Encouraged his men to rape enslaved women. (Abu Dawood 2150, Qur'an 4:24)
16. Demanded captured slaves and a fifth of all other loot taken in war. (Qur'an 8:41)
17. Tortured others. (Muslim 4131, Ibn Ishaq 436, 595, 734, 764)
18. And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah" (Qur'an 8:39)
19. Blessed the brutal murder of a half-blind man (al-Tabari 1440)
20.Ordered a slave to build the very pulpit from which he preached Islam. (Bukhari 47:743)
21.What are the Greatest Commandments? "Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause" (Muslim 1:149)
22. Advocated crucifying others. (Qur'an 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)
23. According to his followers: Had others give their lives for him. (Sahih Muslim 4413)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/jesus-muhammad.htm


'' Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.” (al-An’am 6:151)''

This is a nice verse. Thanks for it. I need others though as I am afraid that their 'justice and law' is not what we assume it is.

 

[StanJ]

You make a point Stan, but lets be honest now.... It is one HELL of TINY point. Anyone can grasp Matt 11:12's context in light of the cross. If not, we just need one verse from Him Matt 26:52. I will accept correction from you if you show me the text that ''justifies'' Muhammad below. These are VALID gripes.

1. He said Allah hates those who don't accept Islam. (Qur'an 30:45, 3:32, 22:38) ....John 3:16
2. Stoned women for adultery (Muslim 4206)
3. Permitted stealing from unbelievers.(Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)...Matt 19:18
4. Permitted lying. (Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)..Matt 19:18
5. Owned and traded slaves. (Sahih Muslim 3901)...1 Tim 1:10
6. Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys. (Sahih Muslim 4390)
7. Murdered those who insulted him. (Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)
8. If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him" (Qur'an 2:194)
9. Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold. (Muslim 4645)..."Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God" Mat 5:9.
10. Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves. (Bukhari 5:268, Qur'an 33:50)
11. Slept with a 9-year-old child. (Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)
12. Ordered the murder of women. (Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)
13. "O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness." (Qur'an 9:123)...Matt 5:5
14. Killed captives taken in battle. (Ibn Ishaq 451)
15. Encouraged his men to rape enslaved women. (Abu Dawood 2150, Qur'an 4:24)
16. Demanded captured slaves and a fifth of all other loot taken in war. (Qur'an 8:41)
17. Tortured others. (Muslim 4131, Ibn Ishaq 436, 595, 734, 764)
18. And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah" (Qur'an 8:39)
19. Blessed the brutal murder of a half-blind man (al-Tabari 1440)
20.Ordered a slave to build the very pulpit from which he preached Islam. (Bukhari 47:743)
21.What are the Greatest Commandments? "Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause" (Muslim 1:149)
22. Advocated crucifying others. (Qur'an 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)
23. According to his followers: Had others give their lives for him. (Sahih Muslim 4413)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/jesus-muhammad.htm


'' Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.” (al-An’am 6:151)''

This is a nice verse. Thanks for it. I need others though as I am afraid that their 'justice and law' is not what we assume it is.

It was meant to be KJ, as that is the point. I have discussed the Bible with many unbelievers over the years and trust me they do the same thing with the OT. There are a lot more than 23 verses in the OT that portray our God as a hostile and vengeful God. With all you apparent knowledge I'm sure you can find many so I won't bother pointing them out here. If we're going to be HONEST, our OT is not much better. I suggest you read the following;
http://globalministries.org/news/mee/pdfs/A-Common-Word-of-scripture-_2_.pdf

 

[KingJ]

It was meant to be KJ, as that is the point. I have discussed the Bible with many unbelievers over the years and trust me they do the same thing with the OT. There are a lot more than 23 verses in the OT that portray our God as a hostile and vengeful God. With all you apparent knowledge I'm sure you can find many so I won't bother pointing them out here. If we're going to be HONEST, our OT is not much better. I suggest you read the following;
http://globalministries.org/news/mee/pdfs/A-Common-Word-of-scripture-_2_.pdf

The argument is that Jesus is who Christians follow. The OT is a separate subject but one that you will lose too. Every act by God in the OT can be explained and justified to equal a good God. The same CANNOT be said for Muhammads statements. That was the whole point of my post. You need to try defend Muhammad so that a SANE person will conclude following him is ''good''.

 

[River Jordan]

It's funny how some Christians are like "Yeah, the OT seems to describe some pretty terrible things, but if you'll just let me explain and put everything in context, you'll see how they are actually good things!" Ok, fair enough...

But when a Muslim says "Yeah, the Quran seems to describe some pretty terrible things, but if you'll just let me explain and put everything in context, you'll see how they are actually good things", the same Christians are like "NO WAY!! I KNOW WHAT YOUR BOOK SAYS! YOUR RELIGION IS EVIL!!"

And they're completely oblivious to their own flawed thinking.