Islam is NOT a religion of Peace

[StanJ]

The argument is that Jesus is who Christians follow. The OT is a separate subject but one that you will lose too. Every act by God in the OT can be explained and justified to equal a good God. The same CANNOT be said for Muhammads statements. That was the whole point of my post. You need to try defend Muhammad so that a SANE person will conclude following him is ''good''.

No, the argument is that Islam is a religion of peace, and for the most part it is, as was the OT, despite it apparent barbaric practises. Try staying focused and not divert or equivocate. If the majority of Muslims believe in peace then the extremists are wrong. We all know any extremist is wrong.

 

[tooldtocare]

Replying to Islam is NOT a religion of Peace

Yes it is

As God is my witness

-

 

[KingJ]

No, the argument is that Islam is a religion of peace, and for the most part it is, as was the OT, despite it apparent barbaric practises. Try staying focused and not divert or equivocate. If the majority of Muslims believe in peace then the extremists are wrong. We all know any extremist is wrong.

I don't completey diasgree with you, but you are dodging the point raised...

 

[StanJ]

I don't completey diasgree with you, but you are dodging the point raised...

What point raised?

 

[KingJ]

What point raised?

1. You are comparing Muhammad to the OT. We follow Jesus. You cannot compare Jesus to Muhammad, that is the point. Muhammad taught eye for an eye, fingertips and head.
2. You keep assuming / insinuating the OT is on par with Muhammad. It is not, by a longshot. We are not making assumptions about Muhammad's teaching. You are not defending 'his teaching' with his teaching.

Replying to Islam is NOT a religion of Peace

Yes it is

As God is my witness

-

Of course it is!! As long as you exclude / ignore everything Muhammad said.

It's funny how some Christians are like "Yeah, the OT seems to describe some pretty terrible things, but if you'll just let me explain and put everything in context, you'll see how they are actually good things!" Ok, fair enough...

But when a Muslim says "Yeah, the Quran seems to describe some pretty terrible things, but if you'll just let me explain and put everything in context, you'll see how they are actually good things", the same Christians are like "NO WAY!! I KNOW WHAT YOUR BOOK SAYS! YOUR RELIGION IS EVIL!!"

And they're completely oblivious to their own flawed thinking.

Take up the challenge then River. Defend Muhammad's teaching to us. Sane = sane. Mad = mad. Assumption = assumption. So far all you have said is 'blah blah blah'.

Start with point # 11 in my post # 57.

No, the argument is that Islam is a religion of peace, and for the most part it is, as was the OT, despite it apparent barbaric practises. Try staying focused and not divert or equivocate. If the majority of Muslims believe in peace then the extremists are wrong. We all know any extremist is wrong.

There is no Islam without Muhammad's teaching.

 

[aspen]

So, if Islam is so violent, why are the majority of Muslims nonviolent? Are they just bad Muslims?

 

[Enquirer]

So, if Islam is so violent, why are the majority of Muslims nonviolent? Are they just bad Muslims?

That Aspen, is the million dollar question ... I reckon it's simple disobedience on their part, because the Koran instructs them otherwise.
Here is a quote from religionofpeace.com

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands
to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah
will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained
by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else
in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways.
Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence.
Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and
subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the
remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

End quote.

I had a Muslim woman staying in my home for about three weeks, and she is totally against violence against innocents ... but mention Israel and it's
hatred pure and simple.
There are no innocents in Israel according to her.

 

[River Jordan]

Take up the challenge then River. Defend Muhammad's teaching to us. Sane = sane. Mad = mad. Assumption = assumption. So far all you have said is 'blah blah blah'.

Because I'm not a Muslim, nor am I defending Islam. I'm just exposing your hypocrisy and flawed thinking.

That Aspen, is the million dollar question ... I reckon it's simple disobedience on their part, because the Koran instructs them otherwise.
Here is a quote from religionofpeace.com

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands
to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah
will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained
by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else
in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways.
Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence.
Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and
subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the
remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

End quote.

I had a Muslim woman staying in my home for about three weeks, and she is totally against violence against innocents ... but mention Israel and it's
hatred pure and simple.
There are no innocents in Israel according to her.

And you're not aware of all the anti-Christian material out there that uses the OT to make the exact same argument against Christianity?

 

[KingJ]

Because I'm not a Muslim, nor am I defending Islam. I'm just exposing your hypocrisy and flawed thinking.

No, you are just exposing that 1. The point raised flies over your head...it must be repeated to you and Stan a million times? 2. How little you think of scripture and 3. how little scripture you actually know.

 

[thomasleonard]

I do think that a little clarification is required in the midst of this topic as i think the subject has swayed back and forth without an agreeable conclusion, nor reasonable answers or replies to them comments.
There is something we can all agree on (hopefully) as fellow Christians. The so-called prophet Muhammed of Islam, is not an honourable man, nor a moral man and neither a justifiable character (judging from the Islamic Holy book itself the Qu'ran, with the statements it holds, and the laws it perpetrates from the so-called prophets of "Allah".)
We can also agree on the fact that Jesus is non-comparable in terms of his teachings, in comparison to Muhammed of Islam. Jesus taught love thy neighbour as you love yourself, and turn the other cheek to your enemies. Whereas Muhammed taught of violence, oppression and war, as he would as a military leader.
And the reason why you find Muslims as peaceful, is because they do not abide by the Qu'ran, ignore statements from their prophet and edit the definitions of Muhammed's teachings, to suit their own likeness and to appear more civilised. I think you would find that if you actually read the Quran, you will understand how "Moderate Muslims" contradict their own religions teachings from their prophet and from the statements within the Qu'ran by doing the exact opposite of what the Qu'ran emphasises you to carry out, and that is oppression to non-believers, jihad in the name of Allah and death to ALL infidels.
We need to be more mature, and realise these things. Otherwise we are no better than they.
Be wise my brethren, for we are all one in Christ, and we are all soldiers of Christ, worthy to defend his holy name.
God Bless.

 

[Enquirer]

And you're not aware of all the anti-Christian material out there that uses the OT to make the exact same argument against Christianity?

Yes, that might be so, but let me ask you ... how does that in any way change the fact that Islam or more specifically the Koran from which
the Islam get's it's identity, is not a religion that promotes peace ?

 

[River Jordan]

Yes, that might be so, but let me ask you ... how does that in any way change the fact that Islam or more specifically the Koran from which
the Islam get's it's identity, is not a religion that promotes peace ?

How do you reach that conclusion? There are many peaceful Muslim groups and communities, some right here in our own country. Or are you doing what I described earlier, where you judge an entire religion by the actions of its most extreme elements?

And the reason why you find Muslims as peaceful, is because they do not abide by the Qu'ran, ignore statements from their prophet and edit the definitions of Muhammed's teachings, to suit their own likeness and to appear more civilised. I think you would find that if you actually read the Quran, you will understand how "Moderate Muslims" contradict their own religions teachings from their prophet and from the statements within the Qu'ran by doing the exact opposite of what the Qu'ran emphasises you to carry out, and that is oppression to non-believers, jihad in the name of Allah and death to ALL infidels.

And as I pointed out earlier, the exact same arguments are often leveled at Christians. Of course we have responses to those arguments, but they usually involve a more nuanced and in-depth understanding of various scriptures. And that's exactly what these "non-abiding Muslims" say about their faith.

The hypocrisy lies in you not allowing Muslims that consideration, while at the same time demanding the consideration for yourself.

 

[thomasleonard]

What hypocrisy lies within me? A hypocrisy of truth? A truth that will hurt is still the truth nonetheless.
The Lord strives for the truth, how are we to define the truth if we hurl excuses at the truth such as hypocrisy?
The truth shall set you free, and this is the inevitable conclusion to this topic. Islam's prophet promotes primitive violent aspects that is set apart from today's civilised world.
Is it you who would like to hide the truth? Or abide by Muhammeds teachings himself?
Make up your mind, because there is no in the middle to this, and that is what is so ignorantly thrown in our faces.
I wish you all the well my friend, but i do not disallow or allow Muslims anything, i am just stating relevant facts and a conscious conclusion to my findings.
God Bless.

 

[River Jordan]

What hypocrisy lies within me? A hypocrisy of truth? A truth that will hurt is still the truth nonetheless.
The Lord strives for the truth, how are we to define the truth if we hurl excuses at the truth such as hypocrisy?
The truth shall set you free, and this is the inevitable conclusion to this topic. Islam's prophet promotes primitive violent aspects that is set apart from today's civilised world.
Is it you who would like to hide the truth? Or abide by Muhammeds teachings himself?
Make up your mind, because there is no in the middle to this, and that is what is so ignorantly thrown in our faces.
I wish you all the well my friend, but i do not disallow or allow Muslims anything, i am just stating relevant facts and a conscious conclusion to my findings.
God Bless.

See, this is where the extreme tribal mentality gets so absurd. I explained your hypocrisy....you are demanding your faith be given certain considerations, but refusing to allow another faith those same considerations.

And my pointing out your hypocrisy does not mean I am therefore favoring or advocating Islam. Think about it.

 

[KingJ]

Guys, PLEASE ignore River. She cannot read what has already been discussed. Stabbing yourself in the eye > continuing discussion with her.

 

[River Jordan]

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Ok then, what should be done? Should Islam be outlawed and all Muslims locked up and/or killed? The extremist elements in Islam want a war with Christianity and the West, and it seems like some of you guys want it too.

Immigrants from Islamic nations should be banned. There is no constitutional right for anyone and everyone to come to this country and yes, shockingly enough, we can discriminate based on culture and religious beliefs just like some European nations do. The trend shows we are more in danger of Islamic immigrants and student visa residents than we are from those Muslims who were born and raised here and have their allegiances properly aligned with this country and not with foreign conflicts.

That would be a good start. And get your mind off of killing people and pretending it's somebody else's idea. That's a pathology that really gives me the chills.

So, if Islam is so violent, why are the majority of Muslims nonviolent? Are they just bad Muslims?

Approval and hospitality to violence is complicity to violence and is considered morally to be in league with violence. Most Muslims are either active or passive participants in terrorism in the name of religion. The polls don't lie.

 

[StanJ]

Immigrants from Islamic nations should be banned. There is no constitutional right for anyone and everyone to come to this country and yes, shockingly enough, we can discriminate based on culture and religious beliefs just like some European nations do. The trend shows we are more in danger of Islamic immigrants and student visa residents than we are from those Muslims who were born and raised here and have their allegiances properly aligned with this country and not with foreign conflicts.
That would be a good start. And get your mind off of killing people and pretending it's somebody else's idea. That's a pathology that really gives me the chills.
Approval and hospitality to violence is complicity to violence and is considered morally to be in league with violence. Most Muslims are either active or passive participants in terrorism in the name of religion. The polls don't lie.

Sure, why don't we, non-muslims, just round them all up and shoot them?
Do you feel the same way about the German, Italian and Japanese people from WWII?
What polls are you alluding to? Any that are viable?

 

[River Jordan]

Immigrants from Islamic nations should be banned. There is no constitutional right for anyone and everyone to come to this country and yes, shockingly enough, we can discriminate based on culture and religious beliefs just like some European nations do. The trend shows we are more in danger of Islamic immigrants and student visa residents than we are from those Muslims who were born and raised here and have their allegiances properly aligned with this country and not with foreign conflicts.

I guess you at least took a stab at it. So no Muslims allowed in the US at all any more?

The polls don't lie.

No, but as we saw earlier, they don't really support your claims either.

 

[aspen]

Approval and hospitality to violence is complicity to violence and is considered morally to be in league with violence. Most Muslims are either active or passive participants in terrorism in the name of religion. The polls don't lie.

You mean the polls that you agree with? I hope we all remember the first part of your statement when we are answering for Ws war crimes during the Judgment.