Dodo_David
Melmacian in human guise
- Jul 13, 2013
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There are 613 commandments in the Tanakh, not just ten.
So, is anyone here obeying all 613 commandment in the Tanakh?
So, is anyone here obeying all 613 commandment in the Tanakh?
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He said 'angry with his brother without cause'.Rach said:Instead of arguing round and round and going nowhere but frustrationville.....lets break your claim down.
For your argument and biblical interpretation to be valid, you need to be walking your talk.
Are you now perfect? Because you are claiming that we must be...only perfect people don't sin...sin being the breaking of the law.
Have you, since your salvation, whenever that was, ever become angry...at all, for any reason? Because if you have, then you have broken a commandment by Jesus' standards.
I think...I know... his point was that Jesus set the bar higher than man's idea of what it is. The law is a picture of absolute righteousness. In absolute terms, no one ever attained the righteous requirement of the law. No one except Jesus Himself. This is the reason that He Himself met the requirements for us on our behalf. (refer to my previous reply).Apocalypticist said:He said 'angry with his brother without cause'.
Apocalypticist said:He said 'angry with his brother without cause'.
I see this all the time from people who don't want to accept obvious Scripture.Rach said:Are you now perfect? Because you are claiming that we must be...only perfect people don't sin...sin being the breaking of the law.
Are you claiming to not sin...ever?
Why do you feel the need to change Yeshua's words?Rach said:So...as long as we have 'just cause' we can do whatever we want?? That does not hold...
Biblically there is such a thing as righteous anger....being angry over sin. But that leaves a lot....a lot! of space for anger elsewhere. Has he ever had a spurt of anger when someone cut him off in traffic? When someone here on this or other sites pushed him a little too far? What about his kid accidently spilling water on his laptop? The list goes on and on. Anyone who claims he has never felt anger at all....lies....which makes the point moot anyway.
Because you're not better than Paul or Peter, who freely confessed that they were not yet perfect.IBeMe said:Give me one good reason why I should sin?
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Apocalypticist said:Why do you feel the need to change Yeshua's words?
He said not to be angry with your brother without cause. You say not to be angry at all.. I think your word does not hold.
But I think there might even be a compromise here. If you looked at the Greek, it might show that Jesus is saying not to be angry with rage against your brother. If you're saying that we are not to be angry with rage, I agree with you.
But I think what Jesus is meaning by leaving an exception is to say that your brothers will sometimes fail you and you should bring ought against them, but not to be bring ought with rage but to pursue a beneficial resolution.
So it could be we're just using the same word in a different way, in which case we could both be right.
No translation is perfect. All arguments about translations should be resolved by looking at the original Greek or Ancient Hebrew text.Apocalypticist said:Well someone did change his words even if it wasn't you.
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
So you're just going to tell me that doesn't matter?
You're going to say the King James has errors now?
But where do we stop once we get on that merry-go-round? The NIV, the RSV, the ESV.. When does it all end?
If we can make the Bible say whatever we want, why should any honest person believe another preacher again or believe the Bible should be beleived at all, say over the Quran or the biography of Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Edison?
Well.....looking up 'Strongs'....which is usually held in high regard for those people relying on the KJV...and it doesn't seem to me that 'without cause' appears anywhere in the Greek.Apocalypticist said:Well someone did change his words even if it wasn't you.
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
So you're just going to tell me that doesn't matter?
You're going to say the King James has errors now?
But where do we stop once we get on that merry-go-round? The NIV, the RSV, the ESV.. When does it all end?
If we can make the Bible say whatever we want, why should any honest person believe another preacher again or believe the Bible should be beleived at all, say over the Quran or the biography of Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Edison?
Rach said:Well.....looking up 'Strongs'....which is usually held in high regard for those people relying on the KJV...and it doesn't seem to me that 'without cause' appears anywhere in the Greek.
Certainly the KJV is one of only a small few translations that has that....most of them do not.
As for errors in the KJV....it's a translation into English by men....just as every other translation is.
The 'merry-go-round' would appear to 'end' to me with the point Jesus was making....that heart attitudes matter to God greatly, and anger towards another is as essentially selfish as murder is....it's self worship...I'm 'better' than that person, so I deserve to....hate, murder, lie, slander....to get my way. It's a blatant disregard for what Jesus told us: 'love your neighbour as yourself'.
You know...I've never claimed to be fluent in Greek....or to be a mouthpiece of God....or to be able to research infalibly. You would note that I said "and it seems to me"....Apocalypticist said:I think it speaks volumes for anyone who will research what you've been saying in our discussions for a couple days now that your posts are not completely accurate. I researched this same problem and saw that 'without cause' wasn't added in. I know that because in the King James and anything that has been added in for reading pleasure is in italics.
That means that it was not added in by editors but that it was a part of the manuscripts that they used for their translation.
You believe the King James. Huh. Well....you do realise that the King James, just like all the other versions above, is a translation from Greek that was done by humans. So it's just as liable to be 'mistaken' as all the other translations. There comes a point where you have to have faith that God's word...living as it is, will protect itself and make itself known to us.We were told not to add or subtract from God's word. I believe the King James. I can't say I'm correct about that but I know it makes more sense if 'without cause' is added to the end of the sentence because it clarifies the Greek.
Well...it came from Matthew 5:22....I'll use the KJV for you:As to the other but separate issue:
"Sure, you might not be physically murdering people, but with anger in your heart, it's just as bad in God's eyes."
That is another thing I'm curious as to where it came from.
Jesus said if you hate your brother it is as if you already killed him. Hate and anger are two different concepts.
King James cannot be any more or less superior than any other translation that was done by man.This proves exactly why the King James is superior. It says you can never hate your brother and be right with God. But it says you cannot be angry without a reason. One reason, which I think is something wit application here, is a simple court case. If you have been heated or defrauded by your brother, it's perfectly rational to be angry about that. What you do is you go to law against him and you get a judgment where you're able to claim what's yours. Jesus of course teaches that this doesn't give you the right to hate, curse, or harm your brother. It's a cause to pray for him and see help him get back on the right track.
Do you see the difference? That is why a translation would have certain words added in is because it clarifies the original in a way that illiterate people or even quite intelligent people without knowledge of Greek and Hebrew and without those resources could research. It makes it more clear.