It is no longer I that sin.

[Ezra]

Romans 8
9 And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ -- this one is not His;
10 and if Christ [is] in you, the body, indeed, [is] dead because of sin, and the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness,
11 and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you.
12 So, then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh;
13 for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live;
14 for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God;

No obligation to the the flesh - why? How?

Because it's not me.

If the Spirit of God lives in you, then you are not in the flesh, but are in the Spirit. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead, but you are alive. How is this? Because I'm not him.

So I don't have to do what he wants. The old man. We are under obligation to live according to the Spirit - again, why?

Because he is over. His day is past. He will be no more. The one who lives forever is me, not him.

Much love!

have you ever listened to tiny tim tip toe through the tulips ? you're tiptoeing around with answers ..this ends my part

 

[marks]

you just used two words IF ACCEPT YOU JUST USED FREE WILL

I'm not saying we don't make choices, but it sounds as though some think we can just choose anything we want.

I don't think that's true. I think our choice is rather narrow indeed.

Before we are reborn, we can choose which sin we want to commit. And that is the extent of our choice.

After we are reborn, we can choose to walk in the Spirit or not, and again, that is the extent of our choice.

If we choose to walk in the Spirit, than the Spirit is directing our walk. If we fail to choose to walk in the Spirit, than our flesh will continue to choose which sin to commit.

We don't, for instance, say, I'm going to do God's will, and of all the options, this is what I choose. He already has a will for us. He's already ordained works that we are to walk in. We don't choose between these good works or those good works.

There are His works, or those which are not His works.

And if we hand control to the flesh, then we've done just that, handed over control.

Much love!

 

[marks]

have you ever listened to tiny tim tip toe through the tulips ? you're tiptoeing around with answers ..this ends my part

I have to say I don't really feel that you are engaging with me either, but I'm willing to continue.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Romans 7

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So when Paul writes, It is no more I that do it (evil, that is), but sins that lives in me,

What exactly is he saying here?

Just to refresh the thought . . .

 

[marks]

to be honest your about as close to calvinist doctrine as there is. see that is your choice

You really do not understand where I'm coming from. This is not correct.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I think the man who repents without guile, thinking to return like a dog to its vomit.

Psalm 32:1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

I'm sorry, I didn't understand your answer.

This person David speaks of, to whom the Lord does not impute sin, does this person need to be forgiven? And why not? How is it that the Lord would not impute sin? Does God live a lie? "you're a sinner, but I'm going to pretend that you're not"?

Much love!

 

[Ezra]

I'm not saying we don't make choices, but it sounds as though some think we can just choose anything we want.

I don't think that's true. I think our choice is rather narrow indeed.

Before we are reborn, we can choose which sin we want to commit. And that is the extent of our choice.

After we are reborn, we can choose to walk in the Spirit or not, and again, that is the extent of our choice.

If we choose to walk in the Spirit, than the Spirit is directing our walk. If we fail to choose to walk in the Spirit, than our flesh will continue to choose which sin to commit.

We don't, for instance, say, I'm going to do God's will, and of all the options, this is what I choose. He already has a will for us. He's already ordained works that we are to walk in. We don't choose between these good works or those good works.

There are His works, or those which are not His works.

And if we hand control to the flesh, then we've done just that, handed over control.

Much love!

lol thank you for backtracking you just unraveled every thing you been denying ---------------FREE WILL

 

[Giuliano]

I'm sorry, I didn't understand your answer.

This person David speaks of, to whom the Lord does not impute sin, does this person need to be forgiven? And why not? How is it that the Lord would not impute sin? Does God live a lie? "you're a sinner, but I'm going to pretend that you're not"?

Much love!

The person who sees the error of his ways and repents is no longer a sinner. There's nothing to worry about then. Why remember the past unless someone hasn't learned from it and is apt to repeat it? God sees us as we are -- not the way we used to be. Why would God impute sin to someone who no longer has the urge to sin?

 

[marks]

lol thank you for backtracking you just unraveled every thing you been denying ---------------FREE WILL

I don't think so.

The purpose of this thread is to show the completeness of being a new creation, as it relates to the sin in our lives.

This is not unraveled, in particular, because I' quoting a passage from Scripture, and pointing to the reality of what it says.

Therefore, it is no longer I, but sin that lives in me.

I'm a new creation, and the sinner is the old creation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The person who sees the error of his ways and repents is no longer a sinner. There's nothing to worry about then. Why remember the past unless someone hasn't learned from it and is apt to repeat it? God sees us as we are -- not the way we used to be. Why would God impute sin to someone who no longer has the urge to sin?

So then do you mean that God does not impute sin to the one who doesn't sin? Or do you mean to the one who doesn't want to sin but still sins anyway?

Much love!

 

[Giuliano]

So then do you mean that God does not impute sin to the one who doesn't sin? Or do you mean to the one who doesn't want to sin but still sins anyway?

Much love!

I don't think I can explain my views any better than I have already, sorry.

 

[marks]

I don't think I can explain my views any better than I have already, sorry.

I was wanting to clarify, because in this:

God sees us as we are -- not the way we used to be. Why would God impute sin to someone who no longer has the urge to sin?

It seems we're on the same page here.

God does not impute sin against us because He knows we're not who we used to be. He knows we're not the sinner, we are His children.

much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Romans 7

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So when Paul writes, It is no more I that do it (evil, that is), but sins that lives in me,

What exactly is he saying here?

Just to refresh the thought . . .

(imo) it means to enter into His death and to cease from your own dead works...made alive “quickened” unto God.(Romans 7:4-5) tells us that through the body of Christ we have become dead to the Law to live unto God. As (2 Corinthians 5:14-15) says we judge if One died for all...then all were dead. That includes “all” as Christ died for all. (Romans 6:13)speaks of those that are alive from the dead to yield unto God. All three above passages speak of “ceased from his own works” to yield to and glorify God. In...we judge One died for all then all were dead ...there are those “alive from the dead” quickened together with Christ and raised up together to sit in heavenly places. Ephesians 2:5-6 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

can one “quickened” together with Christ and raised up to sit in heavenly places ...sin? If a New Creature sins; what sacrifice is for iniquity found in the Sons of God quickened together with Christ?

 

[brakelite]

Will that passage apply to this man?

Romans 4
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Does this man require forgiveness?

Much love!

interesting question.
There is a fine line between genuine faith which is accounted into us as righteousness, and presumptuous faith which takes forgiveness for granted. I sense that like most evangelicals and the majority of Christians, you believe salvation to be a one off act... I believe it to be a process which incorporates sanctification...I do not view obedience and sanctification to be an optional extra, but rather a condition of salvation. Here is how I see the gospel...
The gospel is the good news that Jesus, the God-man, lived a life of perfect obedience to the law and then died as my substitute in order that I, by faith, can claim His perfect righteousness as my own, a righteousness that comes only by faith in His righteousness.?
Would you agree with that?
Upon claiming Christ's righteousness as our own, by faith, we are then born again. We become new creatures in Him. Yet there are conditions to salvation. For example, Jesus said we must be born again. He also said, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, repent ye, and believe the gospel.
John makes the conditions even more explicit. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7) Notice that the text does not say that the one who does righteousness has already been declared righteous, and that this is just a fruit of his being righteous. Doing and righteousness are one and the same thing.
Paul describes the steps to salvation very clearly. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7) How are we saved? By washing, by regeneration, by renewing, by the Holy Spirit. All of these are steps in the salvation process, not results of the salvation experience. This is a crucial defining point in our study of the gospel. The evangelical Christian gospel teaches that all of these things are the inevitable result of accepting Christ and being saved. In other words, once we stand justified and saved, we will experience all these resuslts (which they call sancti fication) in due time, just as we will experience glorification in due time. This means that salvation does not depend on our experiencing regeneration and renewal, but on "being justified by his grace" apart from the new birth experience. But this text places regeneration and renewal as necessary steps in justification and salvation. Without these steps, are we saved?
So to answer your question... Are we forgiven the moment we are justified? Yes. But we are not saved except by grace through faith, we put away all sin.

 

[brakelite]

When you are unrightfully angry, or when you are hating someone, or when you are consumed with envy . . . is this the mind of the flesh that is thinking and feeling these things, or the mind of Christ?

Much love!

If you are doing those sinful things... It is you who is doing them, irrespective of whether the source is the flesj.. You are walking therefore according to the flesh... And therefore you are 100% responsible for the sin you commit.
Any gospel that teaches that obedience is not essential for salvation is a false gospel.

 

[Davy]

I was wanting to clarify, because in this:



It seems we're on the same page here.

God does not impute sin against us because He knows we're not who we used to be. He knows we're not the sinner, we are His children.

much love!

Go out and shoot somebody and see what is imputed to you then. (No, don't do that, I'm just giving an example.)

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

Gal 5:16-21
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

There's that, just in case some Biblically illiterate babe in Christ comes here thinking to be on watch against sin isn't a New Testament Doctrine.

 

[marks]

,

If a New Creature sins; what sacrifice is for iniquity found in the Sons of God quickened together with Christ?

Hi ViJ,

I liked what you wrote, but I didn't understand this part. Can you help me?

Much love!

 

[marks]

,

If you are doing those sinful things... It is you who is doing them, irrespective of whether the source is the flesj.. You are walking therefore according to the flesh... And therefore you are 100% responsible for the sin you commit.
Any gospel that teaches that obedience is not essential for salvation is a false gospel.

Of course you are responsible. Has that ever been in question?

But are you guilty?

Any gospel that teaches that obedience is not essential for salvation is a false gospel.

This is a "gospel of works", hardly good news at all in my opinion.

In this gospel, you are saved if you do the works, and not if you don't. Is that correct?

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you are doing those sinful things... It is you who is doing them,

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

How do you reconcile these statements?

Much love!

 

[marks]

There is a fine line between genuine faith which is accounted into us as righteousness, and presumptuous faith which takes forgiveness for granted.

OK. Where does that apply in this conversation?

If forgiveness is given, then receive and enjoy the fellowship with God. If it's not, then there is nothing to take for granted, it's just deception.

Is that not right?

So to answer your question... Are we forgiven the moment we are justified? Yes. But we are not saved except by grace through faith, we put away all sin.

Really, what my question is, what does God mean when He teaches us, through Paul, "it is no longer I that do it (evil), but sin that lives in me?"

This question challenges our viewpoints, does it not? Who are we really?

Much love!