It is no longer I that sin.

[marks]

Will that passage apply to this man?

Romans 4
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Does this man require forgiveness?

Much love!

So to answer your question... Are we forgiven the moment we are justified? Yes. But we are not saved except by grace through faith, we put away all sin.

I would answer this question differently.

If God is not imputing sin, then there is no need for forgiveness. There is no judicial guilt, therefore no judicial penalty, therefore no need for the relieving of that penalty.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

,

Hi ViJ,

I liked what you wrote, but I didn't understand this part. Can you help me?

Much love!

Ephesians 2:5-6 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

“Dead in sin” is “it is not I that sins” in ”dead in sin”...same as it is not I but Christ lives in Me...now I walk by Faith in the Son everything unto the glory of God. Being quickened together with Christ (by grace) God has raised us up together to sit together in heavenly places in Jesus Christ. The kingdom of Heaven is within. It is this inward “hidden man” of the heart which we are told is incorruptible. (With my mind(heart) I serve Christ.)Heavenly places in Christ: to walk in the power of the Spirit. It is the outward man which can be corrupted. The Law of sin in the outward man which is dead by his body. Not once does the word say that which is quickened together and made alive with Christ ‘alive from the dead’ and raised to sit in Heavenly places does not overcome ...but the opposite in “He who is in you is Greater than he that is in the world. That —quickened of God together with the body of Christ and raised to sit together with Christ in Heavenly places— is a New Creature...Greater is the hidden man of the heart(which is incorruptible), than he (the outward man which can be corrupted)that is in the world. ‘Alive from the dead.’ Walking in the flesh or walking in the Spirit. They are separate, not entangled. It is promoted what has been quickened together with Christ comes and goes appearing in heavenly places and disappearing from heavenly places based off the outward man and his power which is no power at all but “dead works”. So it is the opposite in the outward is overcome by the workings (power)of that which is within and quickened together with Christ. So it is no longer what is dead but what is Alive (quickened)unto God. ‘Kept by the power of God’ preserved blameless and “incorruptible” quickened...Alive from the dead with Christ. 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

 

[marks]

They are separate, not entangled. It is promoted what has been quickened together with Christ comes and goes appearing in heavenly places and disappearing from heavenly places based off the outward man and his power which is no power at all but “dead works”. So it is the opposite in the outward is overcome by the workings (power)of that which is within and quickened together with Christ. So it is no longer what is dead but what is Alive (quickened)unto God. ‘Kept by the power of God’ preserved blameless and “incorruptible” quickened...Alive from the dead with Christ. 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Thank you! Love it!

I particularly like your wording, separate not entangled.

Really well written! Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Thank you! Love it!

I particularly like your wording, separate not entangled.

Really well written! Much love!

Been thinking also on “dead works” of the flesh. It is bummer when the will to do good is there...and those maybe good works would be counted as dead. but Paul in the entirety of (Romans 7:17-22) asserts that although the will to do good is present ...so is evil present also. So “dead works” by the body of Christ is need although there may be the will to do good there is also evil present ...so with the mind Paul said he served Christ...taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ in God’s Grace is sufficient. (2 Corinthians 10:5-7).

 

[marks]

Been thinking also on “dead works” of the flesh. It is bummer when the will to do good is there...and those maybe good works would be counted as dead. but Paul in the entirety of (Romans 7:17-22) asserts that although the will to do good is present ...so is evil present also. So “dead works” by the body of Christ is need although there may be the will to do good there is also evil present ...so with the mind Paul said he served Christ...taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ in God’s Grace is sufficient. (2 Corinthians 10:5-7).

Maybe the reason that this is so important to me is what James wrote, that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

If we identify with the man of flesh, and think that's me, and at the same time thinking that the new man is me, then I'm conflicted. But when I realize that I'm not the old man, I'm only the new, though I am to control the old man, but when I realize, that's not me anymore, I can be single-minded to the Lord.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Maybe the reason that this is so important to me is what James wrote, that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

If we identify with the man of flesh, and think that's me, and at the same time thinking that the new man is me, then I'm conflicted. But when I realize that I'm not the old man, I'm only the new, though I am to control the old man, but when I realize, that's not me anymore, I can be single-minded to the Lord.

Much love!

Definitely think it has to do with being double-minded and unstable in all our ways. But still, there again, what is Born of the Spirit of God is separate and stable. Paul said Christ had given him a sound mind in their presence...yet his bodily presence was weak and his speech contemptible. It is the inward man born of God which can ask and God will give whatsoever a Son ask In His Name. Makes you wonder who was asking God to remove the thorn(stake)in the flesh. Saul, or Paul?

 

[marks]

Makes you wonder who was asking God to remove the thorn(stake)in the flesh. Saul, or Paul?

That's an interesting question!

Seems to me the new creation trusts that what God is doing in my life is good, and that God is in control of everything.

Much love!

 

[Not me]

But the sin that lives in me.

Romans 7

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So when Paul writes, It is no more I that do it (evil, that is), but sins that lives in me,

What exactly is he saying here?

Much love!

As long as you are reckoning yourself dead, the sins you commit are not yours. They are committed by the sin that dwells in you... If you aren’t reckoning yourself dead, the sins are yours, for only your death separates you from your sins.

Ask God about it, I think you’ll be pleasantly pleased by the fruit of being joined with Christ in His death.

Be blessed in Christ, Not me

 

[marks]

As long as you are reckoning yourself dead, the sins you commit are not yours. They are committed by the sin that dwells in you... If you aren’t reckoning yourself dead, the sins are yours, for only your death separates you from your sins.

Ask God about it, I think you’ll be pleasantly pleased by the fruit of being joined with Christ in His death.

Be blessed in Christ, Not me

Hi Not me,

I think we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God because we are in fact dead to sin and alive to God. I completely agree, that death is the only thing that separates us from our sin, and our sinfulness. I likewise believe we have already died in Christ.

Whether we think about things correctly or not, I don't think this changes what God did.

I think of 1 John where the apostle wrote, if our heart condemns us, God is greater than out heart, knowing everything. I think what God is teaching there is that even if we think we are condemned, God knows better, but as a result, we will lack confidence before God.

But there is that question, how can I have confidence before God to come boldly before His throne when I'm in need, let me put it this way . . .

Have you ever felt conflicted by sin? Where there's a part of you that just wants it, doesn't care, tired of fighting, is yielding, giving in to sin, while at the same time, the other part of me is saying, NO! But the sin side seems so strong, and just plows on ahead. Yet the other part knows . . . I amd God's child . . . He loves me . . . You love me! Help me! Look at me! I'm a mess!!! But I'm God's mess. And even then, nothing separates me from Him.

Because I'm already separated from my sin. And the sin side of me, that seems so strong, that seems to be the thoughts and feelings in My mind, is not me. And the part that is me, the new me, can confidently look to God to deliver me from my present distress, and to make me stronger for the days to come.

In the earlier days of my Christianity, there was a very odd thing. After the first few years I had pretty much lapsed back into all my old flesh ways. I was different, there was no question about that. What never bothered me before, now bothered me relentlessly. But I had not discovered God's power to be free yet.

But this is what happened. Around the clock, day in, day out, for the weeks and months and years, while my mind was so occupied in the mind of the flesh, pursuing fleshy things, the entire time, there was a place in my mind singing praise songs to God, simple repetitive choruses.

So there I am, drugs, porn, whatever, and in my mind I hear, " . . . thy loving kindness . . . is better than life! my lips shall praise thee . . . thus will I bless thee . . . I will lift up my hands unto Thy Name. I lift my hands up . . . unto Thy Name . . ."

It never stopped. God had His new life in me, and was not going to give it up. Drove me nuts!! Now I love it!

Much love!

 

[Not me]

Hi Not me,

I think we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God because we are in fact dead to sin and alive to God. I completely agree, that death is the only thing that separates us from our sin, and our sinfulness. I likewise believe we have already died in Christ.

Whether we think about things correctly or not, I don't think this changes what God did.

I think of 1 John where the apostle wrote, if our heart condemns us, God is greater than out heart, knowing everything. I think what God is teaching there is that even if we think we are condemned, God knows better, but as a result, we will lack confidence before God.

But there is that question, how can I have confidence before God to come boldly before His throne when I'm in need, let me put it this way . . .

Have you ever felt conflicted by sin? Where there's a part of you that just wants it, doesn't care, tired of fighting, is yielding, giving in to sin, while at the same time, the other part of me is saying, NO! But the sin side seems so strong, and just plows on ahead. Yet the other part knows . . . I amd God's child . . . He loves me . . . You love me! Help me! Look at me! I'm a mess!!! But I'm God's mess. And even then, nothing separates me from Him.

Because I'm already separated from my sin. And the sin side of me, that seems so strong, that seems to be the thoughts and feelings in My mind, is not me. And the part that is me, the new me, can confidently look to God to deliver me from my present distress, and to make me stronger for the days to come.

In the earlier days of my Christianity, there was a very odd thing. After the first few years I had pretty much lapsed back into all my old flesh ways. I was different, there was no question about that. What never bothered me before, now bothered me relentlessly. But I had not discovered God's power to be free yet.

But this is what happened. Around the clock, day in, day out, for the weeks and months and years, while my mind was so occupied in the mind of the flesh, pursuing fleshy things, the entire time, there was a place in my mind singing praise songs to God, simple repetitive choruses.

So there I am, drugs, porn, whatever, and in my mind I hear, " . . . thy loving kindness . . . is better than life! my lips shall praise thee . . . thus will I bless thee . . . I will lift up my hands unto Thy Name. I lift my hands up . . . unto Thy Name . . ."

It never stopped. God had His new life in me, and was not going to give it up. Drove me nuts!! Now I love it!

Much love!

What is all that to a dead man?

“For you have dead and your life is hide with Christ in God.”

Our deaths in Christ truly frees us from us. Now you have a much concern for yourself as you would have for any dead man.

“Reckon yourself dead indeed unto sin and alive unto God.”

Constantly, every moment of every day, and the joy, freedom, the peace of God you will experience will bless your heart with a perpetual smile.

Be blessed in Christ, Not me

 

[Not me]

What is all that to a dead man?

“For you have dead and your life is hide with Christ in God.”

Our deaths in Christ truly frees us from us. Now you have a much concern for yourself as you would have for any dead man.

“Reckon yourself dead indeed unto sin and alive unto God.”

Constantly, every moment of every day, and the joy, freedom, the peace of God you will experience will bless your heart with a perpetual smile.

Be blessed in Christ, Not me

Ps, and you will find the law being fulfilled in you, but not by you.

Again be blessed, Not me

 

[marks]

Ps, and you will find the law being fulfilled in you, but not by you.

Again be blessed, Not me

That law being . . . ?

 

[marks]

Now you have a much concern for yourself as you would have for any dead man.

There's a good perspective! I like this!

 

[Not me]

There's a good perspective! I like this!

Knowing that there are no perspectives in truth. It’s either the truth or it’s not.

Perspective, is a word used by human understanding when the Spirit in the man has not yet learned that particular truth by experience. (doesn’t know that truth spiritually yet)

Forgive the bluntness, but hope it helps.

In Christ, Not me

 

[marks]

Knowing that there are no perspectives in truth. It’s either the truth or it’s not.

Perspective, is a word used by human understanding when the Spirit in the man has not yet learned that particular truth by experience. (doesn’t know that truth spiritually yet)

Forgive the bluntness, but hope it helps.

In Christ, Not me

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Naturally truth either is or isn't.

Much love!

 

[Giuliano]

Knowing that there are no perspectives in truth. It’s either the truth or it’s not.

Perspective, is a word used by human understanding when the Spirit in the man has not yet learned that particular truth by experience. (doesn’t know that truth spiritually yet)

Forgive the bluntness, but hope it helps.

In Christ, Not me

I would say perspective is used by people who know they're limited, who know we're not omniscient but limited by our experiences.

I think perspective is important. If we were all looking at an elephant, how it looked to each of us would depend where we were. You might be in front and see the trunk. Someone might behind and see the tail. A third person could be under it and see the belly. We could all have part of the truth but not all.

 

[marks]

I would say perspective is used by people who know they're limited, who know we're not omniscient but limited by our experiences.

I think perspective is important. If we were all looking at an elephant, how it looked to each of us would depend where we were. You might be in front and see the trunk. Someone might behind and see the tail. A third person could be under it and see the belly. We could all have part of the truth but not all.

Different ways of looking at something. That's a good part of why I'm here, to gain others points of view, to help steer mine. God uses us to help each other.

much love!

 

[Not me]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Naturally truth either is or isn't.

Much love!

Man does not know the truths of God till he knows them experimentally, till they become a active power of life in his innermost being.

In Christ, Not me

 

[marks]

Man does not know the truths of God till he knows them experimentally, till they become a active power of life in his innermost being.

I think that we need to embrace truths of God so that we Can know them experientially. Although I believe sometimes God does work in us so that we can come to embrace those truths. That way always seems more difficult to me, but I am a hardcase sometimes. But better to just read it and believe it.

After all, the just shall live by faith.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Man does not know the truths of God till he knows them experimentally, till they become a active power of life in his innermost being.

In Christ, Not me

I reflect on this a little more. Perhaps this touches on my reason for starting this thread.

By my observation, many Christians experience themselves as sinners and guilty. But I believe that coming to realize that I'm not the sinner anymore is what frees us from those sins. As long as we think that we're that person, we continue in sin, because that's what that person does. but when we realize that we are righteous and holy and new, and that God always loves us and always approves us, because of Jesus, not us, Jesus' righteousness is forever, and unceasing, therefore His mercies remain, this is what breaks the bond we allow sin to have.

We feel like we're not free so we don't act free.

But believing we are free, we then act free, and come to find, we are free.

Much love!