It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[sondring7]

God's elect are rescued before the conflagration. Christ then returns to a new regenerated earth with the glorified saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9 declares: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain ‘shall be caught up’ [Gr. harpazō] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Please see here: “the coming of the Lord” and “the day of the Lord” are shown to refer to the same climactic day. This is the end! Jesus comes on the “day of the Lord” as a “thief in the night.” He rescues His people, but equally His appearing sees the “sudden” and total “destruction” of the wicked: “they shall not escape.” There is no suggestion of survivors. None are in the passage.

The Holy Spirit could hardly have made this clearer: “they shall not escape.” This totally negates the whole Pretrib and Premil paradigm of countless wicked mortals saturating the new earth.

If the day of the Lord here relates to a third coming, as most Pretribbers argue, and they relate this to the event of Revelation 19, then why is this describing the wicked, who are experiencing the 7 years tribulation, as declaring “Peace and safety”? Surely this is a period of the wrath of God being poured out on all those left behind according to Pretrib theology?

++++Christ then returns to a new regenerated earth with the glorified saints.
Is the earth new regenerated at the time of the 1 Thess 4.17 rapture ?

 

[WPM]

++++Christ then returns to a new regenerated earth with the glorified saints.
Is the earth new regenerated at the time of the 1 Thess 4.17 rapture ?

Yes. Read what I quoted.

 

[sondring7]

Yes. Read what I quoted.

Opinion are not verses
If the earth is NEW REGENERATED at the time of 1 Thess 4.17
Why are the brethren ignorant and sorrowed ?
1 Thess 4.13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not

 

[WPM]

Opinion are not verses
If the earth is NEW REGENERATED at the time of 1 Thess 4.17
Why are the brethren ignorant and sorrowed ?
1 Thess 4.13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not

He is talikng about Christians in the church at Thessalonica back 2000 years ago.

 

[WPM]

Opinion are not verses

I quoted the full text, not 1 verse as you did.

 

[sondring7]

He is talikng about Christians in the church at Thessalonica back 2000 years ago.

So the earth was NOT new regenerated 2000 years ago between 1 Thess 4.13 to 18
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[WPM]

So the earth was NOT new regenerated 2000 years ago between 1 Thess 4.13 to 18
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

It happens when Jesus comes. The church back then was comforted by the hope of victory over the grave.

 

[sondring7]

It happens when Jesus comes. The church back then was comforted by the hope of victory over the grave.

+++ It happens when Jesus comes.
At a time AFTER 1 Thess 4.18 otherwise there would be no need to comfort one another if the earth was already new regenerated

 

[WPM]

+++ It happens when Jesus comes.
At a time AFTER 1 Thess 4.18 otherwise there would be no need to comfort one another if the earth was already new regenerated

Ok, tell me when this happened/happens. And who are the people alive that were to be comforted?

 

[WPM]

+++ It happens when Jesus comes.
At a time AFTER 1 Thess 4.18 otherwise there would be no need to comfort one another if the earth was already new regenerated

Ok, tell me when this happened/happens. And who are the people alive that were to be comforted?

 

[sondring7]

Ok, tell me when this happened/happens. And who are the people alive that were to be comforted?

Ok, tell me when this happened/happens. And who are the people alive that were to be comforted?

If the earth was NEW REGENERATED before 1 Thess 4.18 why did the believers need to comfort one another ?

 

[WPM]

If the earth was NEW REGENERATED before 1 Thess 4.18 why did the believers need to comfort one another ?

Are you trying to be difficult? This is talking about the Christian hope of victory over the grave.

 

[sondring7]

Are you trying to be difficult? This is talking about the Christian hope of victory over the grave.

Post 3262 you said the earth is NEW REGENERATED at the time of the rapture



Again the question is, why would believers need to 1 Thess 4.18 comfort each other if the earth was NEW REGENERATED at 1 Thess 4.17
Who is being diffi now WPM ? :)

 

[WPM]

Post 3262 you said the earth is NEW REGENERATED at the time of the rapture

View attachment 90868

Again the question is, why would believers need to 1 Thess 4.18 comfort each other if the earth was NEW REGENERATED at 1 Thess 4.17
Who is being diffi now WPM ? :)

You are being difficult.

• We will be caught up and glorified when Jesus comes.
• The wicked will be destroyed when Jesus comes.
• This corrupt world will be regenerated when Jesus comes.

This has been a great comfort for God's elect for 2000 years.

 

[sondring7]

You are being difficult.

• We will be caught up and glorified when Jesus comes.
• The wicked will be destroyed when Jesus comes.
• This corrupt world will be regenerated when Jesus comes.

This has been a great comfort for God's elect for 2000 years.

Yes or no, do you stand by your earth is NEW REGENERATED at the time of the rapture in your post # 3262

 

[WPM]

Yes or no, do you stand by your earth is NEW REGENERATED at the time of the rapture in your post # 3262

View attachment 90878

Read what I wrote. I am not playing your silly games. Grow up!

 

[sondring7]

Read what I wrote. I am not playing your silly games. Grow up!

So that's YES, you claim the earth is NEW REGENERATED at the time of 1 Thess 4.16-17

 

[WPM]

So that's YES, you claim the earth is NEW REGENERATED at the time of 1 Thess 4.16-17

The Thessalonian believers 2000 years ago were encouraged to take heart in regard to the events that will happen at the future second coming of the Lord. They were reminded, the grave had no victory over the redeemed. They would be changed in a moment into a glorified state when Jesus returns. The bodies of their dead loved ones would be raised from the graves. So, they could look forward, anticipate, the great and final future climatic return of Jesus Christ in all eternal His majesty and glory to renovate this current sin-cursed world, and bring it back to a perfect state.

 

[sondring7]

The Thessalonian believers 2000 years ago were encouraged to take heart in regard to the events that will happen at the future second coming of the Lord. They were reminded, the grave had no victory over the redeemed. They would be changed in a moment into a glorified state when Jesus returns. The bodies of their dead loved ones would be raised from the graves. So, they could look forward, anticipate, the great and final future climatic return of Jesus Christ in all eternal His majesty and glory to renovate this current sin-cursed world, and bring it back to a perfect state.

Was that YES or NO ?
The earth was NEW REGENERATED at the time of 1 Thess 4.16-17

 

[WPM]

Was that YES or NO ?
The earth was NEW REGENERATED at the time of 1 Thess 4.16-17

The earth is totally regenerated when Jesus comes.