It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Taken]

So what happens next when Jesus comes and where is it in Rev?

Next? After What?

 

[CrowCross]

Really? Where is your rapture here? Have you other Scripture to corroborate your claims?

No one said there would be a rapture there...but you.

You're the one who brought up this message to the world claim.

 

[CrowCross]

I did NOT ask you what Rapture MEANS.
I asked you WHERE the WORD “RAPTURE” is in Scripture, as you Said It IS IN Scripture.

I also said “I” am fully aware WHAT RAPTURE means.

You can Search on this Forum…my Posts and get a quick Reference To “my” Posts…
The Dates, (for at least the last 5 years) Thread Titles, post numbers…Regarding the WORD “Harpazo”… Meaning…
The English, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, WORDS AND meanings.

I'm not quite sure why you got your panties in a bunch....my first response to you when you said rapture wasn't in the bible was...."yes it is. Learn the meaning of caught up and the languages it has been translated into."

 

[Taken]

Really? Where is your rapture here? Have you other Scripture to corroborate your claims?

You DO NOT LISTEN…
@CrossCrow… Expressly Said…
“after the Rapture”…

So why Are you ASKING “Where is the Rapture IN Revelations”?

God Established… HIS “ORDER”; HIS “WAY”… for HIS Word, HIS Understanding to be Given men.

You Demanding… men to Willy, nilly show to you Gods Word, according to “your Order and your Way”… is Carnal nonsense.

You Demanding… men Prove to you Gods Understanding … is a Fail.

Gods ORDER IS:
He provides His “Knowledge” To men that SEEK His Knowledge….
FROM His WRITTEN WORD.

Gods WAY IS:
He provides His “SPIRITUAL Understanding”
OF His Word…
TO men, WHO HAVE sought His Word, Trusts to Believe His Word, AND THUS…
ARE THEY… Prepared TO:
Spiritually RECEIVE FROM HIM…
The “Spiritual Understandings OF His Words”.

You are of the Crowd of men…
who WANT, who DEMAND….
Other men TO provide YOU / THEM
* With Gods Word
* With Understanding of Gods Word

And YOU go “Further”…
* Demanding What You Want BE in IN some Random Book you choose.
* And Repeatedly … Not only Rejection of Gods Word, Gods Understanding…
* But Badger the men who can Not, Hear, Read, Study, Learn, Trust, Understand
FOR You…OR GIVE TO You…
That Which Is Gods To Give to Whom He Pleases.

 

[Taken]

I'm not quite sure why you got your panties in a bunch....my first response to you when you said rapture wasn't in the bible was...."yes it is. Learn the meaning of caught up and the languages it has been translated into."

Your snide remark is noted.
You said, The word Rapture was in Scripture…it Is Not.
You told me to go Learn What Words meant…
After I told you I already Knew the meaning.
I provided you with a Way, to verify, I already Knew what the Words meant, in numerous Posts over a course of years.

And instead of correcting YOUR error, and Telling me to Do, what I proved I already Did…
You come back with a snide remark…To me…in some wonderment… of WHY I corrected your error, and Why I proved I was fully aware of the word meanings.

Oh, yes, I see, oh right Previously discussed, pardon me…
“would have been, an appropriate Response”.
Not your snide remark.

 

[WPM]

Next? After What?

What happens to God's people when Jesus appears? Where do we find that in Revelation?

 

[CrowCross]

You said, The word Rapture was in Scripture…it Is Not.

Please don't be ignorant. You know exactly what I'm saying.

 

[CrowCross]

It is not in the Hebrew and it is not in the Greek.

.....perhaps the latin translation. Raptus.....which is also know as rapture in modern english. Yes???

 

[WPM]

.....perhaps the latin translation. Raptus.....which is also know as rapture in modern english. Yes???

But we a we do not speak in Latin, and the Bible was not written in Latin.

 

[WPM]

You DO NOT LISTEN…
@CrossCrow… Expressly Said…
“after the Rapture”…

So why Are you ASKING “Where is the Rapture IN Revelations”?

God Established… HIS “ORDER”; HIS “WAY”… for HIS Word, HIS Understanding to be Given men.

You Demanding… men to Willy, nilly show to you Gods Word, according to “your Order and your Way”… is Carnal nonsense.

You Demanding… men Prove to you Gods Understanding … is a Fail.

Gods ORDER IS:
He provides His “Knowledge” To men that SEEK His Knowledge….
FROM His WRITTEN WORD.

Gods WAY IS:
He provides His “SPIRITUAL Understanding”
OF His Word…
TO men, WHO HAVE sought His Word, Trusts to Believe His Word, AND THUS…
ARE THEY… Prepared TO:
Spiritually RECEIVE FROM HIM…
The “Spiritual Understandings OF His Words”.

You are of the Crowd of men…
who WANT, who DEMAND….
Other men TO provide YOU / THEM
* With Gods Word
* With Understanding of Gods Word

And YOU go “Further”…
* Demanding What You Want BE in IN some Random Book you choose.
* And Repeatedly … Not only Rejection of Gods Word, Gods Understanding…
* But Badger the men who can Not, Hear, Read, Study, Learn, Trust, Understand
FOR You…OR GIVE TO You…
That Which Is Gods To Give to Whom He Pleases.

Not true. I have asked you to show your doctrine anywhere in God's Book, but you cannot. I am not showing: you have no biblical support for Pretrib. You Pretribbers are reinforcing that by your ducking around of the simple questions. LOL.

 

[WPM]

.....perhaps the latin translation. Raptus.....which is also know as rapture in modern english. Yes???

• Where is the rapture for believers in Scripture, followed by a trib period?
• Where is the rapture for believers in Revelation, followed by a trib period?

 

[WPM]

WHO said there IS a Rapture for Believers?

WHO said there is a Rapture in Revelations?

QUOTE them and ask them.

Because, I can not Answer for what I did not say.

You did. LOL.

"After Christ the Lord Jesus descends to the clouds and Has Redeemed His Church ..
ie. Called His Church up to Him… ie. The Rapture.

Then…After the 7 seals are Opened, in Heaven, by the Lamb of God."

 

[WPM]

17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

How do you say harpazó in latin?

We all accept there is a catching away here. But, where in 1 Thessalonians 4 does it show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming? Where does it even show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period?

 

[CrowCross]

But we a we do not speak in Latin, and the Bible was not written in Latin.

But we do speak english....and understand the term "caught up" also means "rapture".

Someone of your biblical caliber and knowledge should understand how the word "rapture" was derived.

 

[WPM]

But we do speak english....and understand the term "caught up" also means "rapture".

Someone of your biblical caliber and knowledge should understand how the word "rapture" was derived.

I do not typically use the word because it brings confusion today. It identifies a Christian with a certain type of doctrine, that I do not hold. Obviously, I am not Pretrib. I prefer biblical terms.

 

[CrowCross]

We all accept there is a catching away here. But, where in 1 Thessalonians 4 does it show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming? Where does it even show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period?

The bible doesn't outright say...."the rapture will be followed by a 7 year tribulation. The bible also doesn't say outright there is a trinity consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But, if you connect the dots a christian can understand the basic principles of the Godhead.

When the dots surround the rapture of the church are connected the pre-trib rapture becomes obvious.

For example I have shown you the bible presents Jesus as returning on a white horse in Rev 19 and another return where Jesus isn't riding a white horse. I've even presented you with depictions of the event. No white horse at the rapture while defections show a white horse at the Rev 19 return. That's one dot.

I've presented you with a social economic picture mentioned by Christ Jesus that speaks of His return and describes it like the days of Noah and not......which don't align with the social economic days of the end of the tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been presented several verses that show Christians....the bride of Christ... are not destined for wrath or the trials of the 7 year tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been shown the 7 year tribulation is a judgement for the people of the earth...and should understand Jesus already paid the price for that Judgement concerning Christians on the cross 2,000 years ago.....another dot to connect.

Another dot to connect would be the many mansions (dwelling places) in heaven that Jesus is currently building and the promise of His return to take us there. This fits in with the Jewish engagement and wedding of the times of Christ.

I have shown you another dot with the 2 Thes 2 mention of the gathering and removal of the restrainer and departure that happens prior to the 7 year tribulation. One more dot to connect.

You have been shown that the Church isn't mentioned by name after after chapter 4 of Revelations (19 times prior to chapter 5) and then not again to chapter 20. ....this is another dot.

There's more dots to connect that are buried deeper in scripture that I won't mention.

Dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot = a pre-trib rapture. All you need to do is connect them.

Where are your dots to connect that show a single return of Jesus at the end of the tribulation?