It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial
- Thread starter WPM
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Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
All people die once, but the wicked die twice. It's called the second death when they get thrown into the lake of fire, after they are judged unworthy of Life
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this actually is proof that for the world, when Christ comes in judgment, the wicked and unbelieving who do not know God, and who do not obey the gospel, are killed.
Then they stand before God , in the resurrection of condemnation, the books are opened, and they are judged by the things written in the book
Read about that in Daniel 7 when God comes again a second time.
And here
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
So after the fiery destruction of Christ's second coming, they having died, are raised and judged.
Even Christians all physically die!, .... as they are changed in the resurrection of life of the Lamb
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive;
www.biblegateway.com
35 But some man will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, unless it die.
37 And that which thou sowest is not that body which shall be, but bare grain, by chance of wheat or of some other grain.
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh; but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies and bodies terrestrial; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead: It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.
43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written: “The first man Adam was made a living soul.” The last Adam was made a quickening Spirit.
46 However that which is spiritual was not first, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second Man is the Lord from Heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep; but we shall all be changed
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
.................
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
All people die once, but the wicked die twice. It's called the second death when they get thrown into the lake of fire, after they are judged unworthy of Life
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
this actually is proof that for the world, when Christ comes in judgment, the wicked and unbelieving who do not know God, and who do not obey the gospel, are killed.
Then they stand before God , in the resurrection of condemnation, the books are opened, and they are judged by the things written in the book
Read about that in Daniel 7 when God comes again a second time.
And here
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
So after the fiery destruction of Christ's second coming, they having died, are raised and judged.
Even Christians all physically die!, .... as they are changed in the resurrection of life of the Lamb
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive;
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15 - 21st Century King James Version
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which you also have received, and wherein ye stand, by which ye also are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you-- unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also...
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, unless it die.
37 And that which thou sowest is not that body which shall be, but bare grain, by chance of wheat or of some other grain.
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh; but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies and bodies terrestrial; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead: It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.
43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written: “The first man Adam was made a living soul.” The last Adam was made a quickening Spirit.
46 However that which is spiritual was not first, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second Man is the Lord from Heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep; but we shall all be changed
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
.................
Taken
Well-Known Member
And like in Noah’s day …
The Saved shall be lifted up to the Clouds, to prevent their Suffering on Earth During the Trib sent from Heaven…
And YOU? Still preaching the Saved will remain on earth during the Trib Sent upon the Earth to suffer Wrath… with the Wicked…
Got it.
Hope you are still alive and get to experience the Tribulations from Heaven, with the Wicked… as it is your preaching, teaching, belief.
The problem in your teaching is your opinion that the wrath of God = the tribulation period. This is a major error and one which you cannot prove in Scripture. The wrath of God when Jesus comes is total destruction. No one survives.
Well scriptures specifically says the righteous will be on the earth with the wicked until the ending of the world, then the angels separate them.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 13 - 21st Century King James Version
The same day, Jesus went out of the house and sat by the seaside. And great multitudes were gathered together unto Him, so that He went into a boat and sat, and the whole multitude stood on the shore. And He spoke many things unto them in parables, saying, "Behold, a sower went forth to sow. And...
47 “Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a net that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind,
48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
51 Jesus said unto them, “Have ye understood all these things?” They said unto Him, “Yea, Lord.”
52 Then said He unto them, “Therefore every scribe who is instructed unto the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a man that is a householder, who bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.”
53 And it came to pass that when Jesus had finished these parables, He departed thence.
Taken
Well-Known Member
You have started multiple threads to ask for scriptures, and multiple times have been given the scriptures…
And…still you falsely claim no one provides scriptures.
Yes they have and?
Still you reject, or ignore and continue beating your whining and false accusations and opinions Drum.
WHAT do you think You will be DOING (if alive ) and WHERE will you be WHEN
Gods Tribulation are Sent to Earth?
That should be Easy to answer… since it is not asking for any Scripture!!
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Pretribbers argue that 7 year trib (or whatever length trib) equates to the wrath of God. So, if your 7 year trib equates to the wrath of God then you have believers being subject to the wrath of God. There are obviously redeemed during the tribulation period, so, if the tribulation period is the wrath of God, you are saying that the wrath of God is upon the righteous.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Christ Jesus Offered A salvation Through Him…Through Him requires a man TO Enter Through Christ Jesus’ Door.
When Christ Jesus’ Door is Shut… so is opportunity for men to Enter, Through Christ Jesus’ Door.
That door is Shut, once the Lord Redeems His Church, from the Earth.
Is that the End of salvation?
No, that is the End of Christ Jesus’ Offering of Salvation.
Less you forget, God AS WELL Saves.
Living men upon the Earth, “During” the Trib…WHO DID NOT Enter through Christ Jesus’ Door…
Will be …Some…
Believing, Some choosing to believe, Some Rejecting God, Some choosing to Reject God…
And ?
Is not God, Able to Save those (during the Trib) who believe in Him?
It is Not About… IF there are Believers during the Trib…. Sure there are…
But none during the Trib ARE Saved ….”By Christ Jesus”.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
I am NOT held to your twisted opinions and gaslighting.
I do believe… EVERY single human that has ever been born… Righteous or not will Experience Tribulations… big and small,
Tribulations Between and Among Men, Effects of the Earth (that God Controls).
Tribulations of men… are constant.
Effects of Gods Weather on the Earth, constant from pleasant to severe…sporadic…. And Not because of Gods ANGER.
Do you think God IS ANGRY at Righteous men that are Killed in a Tornado, (that God Caused?)
Gods end days Tribulations from Heaven Upon the Earth…is expressly because of His Anger…
And they who “become” Righteous during the Trib… and Killed by the consequence of Gods Tribulations….
What about “them”… their Suffering of Tribulations ends and their soul Saved and They “scheduled to be” Resurrected, and With God forever.
In your opinion: the wrath of God = the tribulation period. So, you have saved redeemed believers present during your future tribulation under the wrath of God. This demolishes another major pillar of your mistaken doctrine.
Taken
Well-Known Member
If that were true you could have quoted ME saying that….instead of talking for me what I did not say.
Another lie…stop making up crap I did not say.
There Wiil be Non believers During the Trib from Heaven on Earth.
There will be non- Believers during the Trib from Heaven who will Become Heartful Believers…!
No one “IS” Saved… without First Being…
A True Heartful Believer and Their Body IS Accounted Dead!
Good grief, don’t you study any Scripture?
With all due respect...in post 2665....you said, and I quote...You said, The word Rapture was in Scripture…it Is Not.
Why would you say the word "rapture" isn't in scripture when it is?
More fiction. But if they become saved in your imaginary 7 yr trib then they automatically come under the wrath of God.
