BeyondET
Well-Known Member
Surely the memories are not pleasant I doubt he has forgotten them.Try reading the passage with your eyes open:
“…crucify the Son of God afresh…”
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Surely the memories are not pleasant I doubt he has forgotten them.Try reading the passage with your eyes open:
“…crucify the Son of God afresh…”
It's not a fact that the other 2/3 angels have met the divine standard perfectly all their existence? Ah yes, they have - despite the choices of the other 1/3, right or wrong?If that were true, 1/3 of the Angels would not have rebelled against God.
Yes, He probably has not...so why does the OSAS crowd claim salvation is a License to Sin? Is not a License permission to engage in behavior for which the unlicensed will suffer punishment? Two fishermen standing next to each other in a stream, one licensed and the other unlicensed. What will happen to them if the Game Warden shows up?Surely the memories are not pleasant I doubt he has forgotten them.
It's not a fact that the other 2/3 angels have met the divine standard perfectly all their existence?
Ah yes, they have - despite the choices of the other 1/3, right or wrong?
Sorry, but your claim that only God can meet His divine standard fails with every single non-divine obedient angel
WHAT STRAWMAN? YOU SAID ONLY GOD CAN "MEET THE STANDARD" AND I REFUTED THAT SILLY IDEA BY POINTING OUT THAT 2/3 OF THE ANGELS HAVE MET THAT STANDARD SINCE THEIR CREATION.. AND ANGELS AIN'T DIVINE; THEY'RE CREATURES LIKE US.No. It is supposition on your part as a desperate attempt to create a Strawman, for reasons that are not entirely clear.
WHAT STRAWMAN? YOU SAID ONLY GOD CAN "MEET THE STANDARD" AND I REFUTED THAT SILLY IDEA BY POINTING OUT THAT 2/3 OF THE ANGELS HAVE MET THAT STANDARD SINCE THEIR CREATION..
I don't think you understand what the meaning of "strawman" is. A "strawman argument" is when - during a debate - a person falsely attributes a statement to another, then proceeds to argue against that statement in the attempt to place the other person in a negative light.That is the Strawman. Except the Angels that didn’t meet the standards is your Strawman that they did.
''Mortal created angels"?I don't think you understand what the meaning of "strawman" is. A "strawman argument" is when - during a debate - a person falsely attributes a statement to another, then proceeds to argue against that statement in the attempt to place the other person in a negative light.
However, when you say we cannot "meet God's standard" because we are not God...and I show you that it's not necessary to be God to meet His standard and I point to the 2/3 MORTAL, CREATED ANGELS as evidence...
...that's not a strawman argument, but good 'ol fashioned reason/logic.
I don't think you understand what the meaning of "strawman" is. A "strawman argument" is when - during a debate - a person falsely attributes a statement to another, then proceeds to argue against that statement in the attempt to place the other person in a negative light.
However, when you say we cannot "meet God's standard" because we are not God...and I show you that it's not necessary to be God to meet His standard and I point to the 2/3 MORTAL, CREATED ANGELS as evidence...
...that's not a strawman argument, but good 'ol fashioned reason/logic.
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:3High-sounding platitudes - we hear them constantly. Where once was powerfully preached and gladly heard echoed a plain "thus saith the Lord" is now filled with a cacophony of shallow religious colloquialisms and sound bites...and Christians of today's largely backslidden church "love to have it so" (Jeremiah 5:31 KJV). One of the most popular of these is "It's not about religion, but about relaaaaationship". Fine, then. What were perhaps the two most important things Jesus referred to in teaching us about what constitutes a proper relationship with God? about how He relates to us and how we are to Him?
Children and marriage.
So, what did God say was to be the fate of Israelite children who strike their parents? Stoned to death. Yet, somehow the OSAS crowd which makes up the majority of Christianity today ignores this divine revelation of God's uncompromising will that solemn reverence for parents be in the heart of every child, young or old, that by this they may also learn to reverence Him -- and instead, spit in their heavenly Father's face and "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame" by willfully sinning against Him after receiving a knowledge of the truth (Hebrews 10:26 KJV). They believe grace somehow cripples His justice and makes His bark worse than His bite - that the fresh nails of sin they drive daily into the hands and feet of Jesus will go unnoticed in the day of Judgment.
So, what does the Bible say about the marital obligations of the husband and wife? That the man (or woman) who commits adultery is a fool who will end up lost (Proverbs 6:32 KJV). Yet, somehow the OSAS "faithful" think God is satisfied with presumptuous, deliberate, habitual unfaithfulness to His Ten Commandments, while they themselves will slap even a one-time unfaithful spouse with divorce papers and remarry before the ink has a chance to dry.
Sure, it's about "relationship" alright - one of double standards and selfish terms. Is that the kind of relationship we are to have with the One Who had every right to abandon us with that first bite of forbidden fruit, but instead at that moment began a long journey to what would be the ultimate, infinite sacrifice for our redemption - even if not a single soul would have been touched by His grace and surrendered their heart to Him?
100% agree. Will only those who don't know Jesus be told to depart from Jesus?"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:3
You can only know someone by relationship with them.
I'm not omniscient and scripture doesn't say, but we are exhorted not to go beyond what scripture actually says. Speculation is interesting but proof of nothing. It does however, reveal what's in our hearts and becomes a cause for judgment (not to condemnation, but to loss.)100% agree. Will only those who don't know Jesus be told to depart from Jesus?
It's not going beyond Scripture to say that there will be those who were saved that will hear Jesus tell them to depart - Matthew 24:12-13 KJV plainly speaks of saints who allowed widespread iniquity to turn their agape cold, which is a far more spitworthy spiritual condition than the merely "lukewarm" Laodicean saints who will be spit out of Jesus' mouth.I'm not omniscient and scripture doesn't say, but we are exhorted not to go beyond what scripture actually says. Speculation is interesting but proof of nothing. It does however, reveal what's in our hearts and becomes a cause for judgment (not to condemnation, but to loss.)
Can you point me to the verse that says salvation is the following :Wrong - the only laws that pertained only to Israel we’re the Mosaic laws of ceremonies and sacrifices which pointed to Jesus. It was, is, and always will be wrong to break the Ten Commandments - they existed long before Israel.
Salvation has always been based upon whether we accept Jesus in our heart - good or bad performance is merely the outward evidence of our inward choice (1 John 2:3-4 KJV)
We we’re always intended to be holy, just, and good and we may do “all things through Christ” including perfection “even as your Heavenly Father is perfect”.
The holy angels aren’t divine, yet they meet the standard perfectly, so your idea only gods can meet it fails here.
As for us, IN OUR FALLEN STATE we are helpless to meet it - in our UPRIGHT CHRISTIAN STATE we are “more than conquerors” - anyone who argues we can’t meet God’s standard of righteousness inadvertently calls God a liar because it’s not a matter of our obvious lack in skill but of whether we surrender our will - Jesus supplies all the skill we need once we
True - it’s the goodness of God that leads us to confess and repent, otherwise we’d have no idea we’re headlong toward destruction - just look around at the unchurched world and see for yourself.
Well, maybe. Matthew 24:12-13 doesn't identify the "many" as saints, you have.It's not going beyond Scripture to say that there will be those who were saved that will hear Jesus tell them to depart - Matthew 24:12-13 KJV plainly speaks of saints who allowed widespread iniquity to turn their agape cold, which is a far more spitworthy spiritual condition than the merely "lukewarm" Laodicean saints who will be spit out of Jesus' mouth.
Colossians 1:27 KJVCan you point me to the verse that says salvation is the following :
" accept Jesus in your heart " ?
thanks
It absolutely does identify these "many" as saints, right there in verse 12.Well, maybe. Matthew 24:12-13 doesn't identify the "many" as saints, you have.
Not in the few dozen translations I have. You do know that love isn't the sole possession of Christians, right?It absolutely does identify these "many" as saints, right there in verse 12.
Hint: Compare to 1 John 5:3 KJV and Romans 8:7 KJV.
Eros, phileo, storge? Sure, all people know that...but only the saints of God can demonstrate "agape" which is by happily keeping the commandments of God (1 John 5:3 KJV; Romans 8:7 KJV). This is precisely why the "many" in Matthew 24:12 KJV are "saints" which won't "endure to the end" and wind up "saved" like the saint in verse 13.Not in the few dozen translations I have. You do know that love isn't the sole possession of Christians, right?