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James: explained

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Behold, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    -

    "faith without works is dead".
    I will show you my salvation by my FAITH...
    Lot of confusion about "dead faith", because heretics twist this phrase into "dead salvation" or "lost your salvation".
    And of course, James is not talking about salvation, he's talking about public discipleship, where you will be perceived in public "by your FRUIT". = YOU< shall know them.
    ---------

    James is explaining that before MEN, you are justified by your lifestyle.
    This is related to "you shall know them by their fruit."
    "you shall know them"...= you shall watch their lifestyle, and discover if they are following Christ or NOT...."by their FRUIT".
    See it?

    So, this is what James is explaining.....that before people you are justified in THEIR EYES< by your Christian Discipleship, .....so, is it alive or dead? Thats what he is asking you.....Are you walking the walk in life, or are you just trying to troll on a Christian forum and create chaos and arguments because you are a carnal person who likes to upset peace and cause RELIGIOUS strife ?

    So, before MEN< James says they have to SEE YOU LIVE IT, ( SPIRITUAL FRUIT) exactly as...="by your DEEDS, your FRUIT, shall nonbelievers and believers KNOW IF YOU ARE THE REAL DEAL"
    Understand James now?
    So, before men you are justified or not by your WORKS, but before GOD all your works are as "filthy rags"< as they are compared to Jesus.
    So, do you understand that part?

    You are never EVER justified by your works, or your enduring to the end, or your holding unto your faith, or whatever you think you need to DO to make yourself and keep yourself righteous, before God.
    All that is a SELF RIGHTEOUS FAIL, as the only thing that God accepts on your behalf, to save you, and keep you saved, is never what you are doing before the PUBLIC, that James is talking about.
    So, get that,......learn THAT.

    Listen...
    God never accepts you, based on you or your lifestyle.....never..... not ever.
    God only saved you, accepted you, and KEEPS YOU = because of what CHRIST DID for you, on THE Cross.
    So, you are justified before men (James) by your lifestyle, (Fruit) and God justifies you as His own, by your FAITH.
    God only accepts your FAITH, to then give you HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, as that is what you have to have, and NOT YOURS, to be saved. = Born again.
    Salvation, is God making you Righteous, thru the Blood of Jesus The Christ, so that He can accept you into His family, as Only God's righteousness given to you as a free gift can make you acceptable to God....and never your works.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Allow me to clarify that abiding in Christ is not accomplished by "holding on to your faith."

    The Lord will secure your abiding in Him if you are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5); He will produce in you the faith that is needed to abide in Him. For faith is both a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) and a gift of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:9). If you are sealed by the Holy Spirit, you have an everlasting faith; and thus everlasting life. You do not need to keep this faith for yourself by "holding on to it" like it is trying to get away from you and you have to keep it trapped.

    We know that to him who has not, even what he has will be taken away; but to him who has, more will be given (Matthew 13:12).

    Therefore I would say that the one who has faith, will continue in the words of Jesus (see John 8:31-32) and thus, faith will continue to be produced in his life (via the principle of Romans 10:17).
     
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  3. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    You always have to put in some works dont you.
    Most of what you wrote, is what i teach, so, thats good... .but as usual, you are going a find a way to put the self effort into the Grace of God, and have the believer by EFFORT, in some capacity, trying to keep themselves saved, or PROVE THEY ARE, by some effort.
    Listen, born again, is all there is....
    If you have this, then you are heaven bound...
    If a born again Believer, like you, on occasion, sins, then you are not lost, you are just not understanding how to stop sinning.
     
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that reading God's word is self-effort; just like eating lunch every day is not self-effort.

    We do so, in both instances, because we are hungry.

    Not to mention, in both instances, we find pleasure in the "eating".

    Especially if one is born again, they will find pleasure in partaking of God's word.

    Because they have salvation they desire the sincere milk of the word (1 Peter 2:1-3) and will not neglect to read it; not because it is their discipline or because they are reading His word in self-effort: but because their soul desires it.
     
  5. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    How do you know whether you've "believed in vain"? How do you know your faith is real? That your new life in Christ is real?

    How do you know you aren't just fooling yourself?

    I'm not saying I think you are. But I am asking how do you know you aren't?

    Much love!
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    My answer to this is Romans 8:16 (I know I'm butting in again).
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  7. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    We are saved
    By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?
    By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?
    By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?
    By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?
    By declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9)?
    By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?
    By maintaining the faith (Col 1:22-23; Mt 24:13)?
    By works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24)?
    By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?
    By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?
    By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?
    By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?

    Bible Study Mary
     
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  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    We know inside, because we actually know Him.

    Because there is something different about me. I'm different, and that difference is a new creation, united in the Spirit with God. And that union produces a new mind inside me, so I'm thinking differently, and that new mind produces godly control over my flesh, so that my life in this world becomes different.

    Which brings us back to James. To anyone who thinks James is teaching that we are justified to God by our works, I have to ask, doesn't God already know about us? Does anyone think that God is testing us in order to answer some question to which He doesn't know the answer?

    We know we are united to God, but no one can see that. They can only see when it becomes a change in my behavior. I'm justified to God by grace through faith, but I'm justified to you if you see it in me.

    And I think that this "see it in me" evidence is a really good thing to have for ourselves as well. Because we can claim we are born again, that we trust in Jesus, but if even after time there is no real change in our lives, that doesn't mean we're Not born again, but it may mean we're not, and we need to make sure what we truly believe, and whether we've actually reconciled to God.

    Always so good to talk about these things!

    Much love!
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Those verses cannot be saying that we are saved by works, lest they be in contradiction to the following verses; which teach us that salvation is not of works:

    Romans 4:5-6

    Titus 3:5 (kjv)

    Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    Ephesians 2:8-9.

    Now, if someone is truly regnerated and renewed (born again), they are inclined towards doing good works. But their salvation is not in the works but in the inclination to do them...the change that God does in the heart of a man on the inside of him.

    Kapiche?
     
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  10. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Those verse tell us what it takes to be saved. Did you notice it takes more than just faith/belief?

    Sorry to keep repeating Scripture but....Faith without works is dead.
     
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to keep repeating scripture, but...God imputeth righteousness without works...To him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness...Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he has saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost...For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The scripture that you have quoted merely indicates that saving faith is a living faith.

    It has been said that we are saved by faith alone; but that faith that saves is never alone.

    Faith that doesn't apprehend regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost is no faith at all.

    This regeneration and renewing (being born again) is a work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a believer, that will make him inclined towards righteous behaviour / good works.

    But again, it is not the works that have saved him. But he is saved by grace through faith; which apprehends a transformation in his life. And good works are the result.

    But if good works were absent (as with the thief on the cross) but a living faith were present...that living faith will save a man even if he does not have even one good work to show for his faith.

    We are given a salvation that is determined to be and is defined as forgiveness of sins. And we cannot earn such forgiveness. It is given to us as a free gift. To attempt to earn it is to insult the Lord; it is to say that the Lord owes it to you to forgive you because of something you did. And the Lord will not owe you anything. He offers salvation to you as a free gift.

    We are forgiven when we ask to be forgiven...when we confess our sins to the Lord. God does not forgive us in exchange for some good work that we did. That is wages earned...and the reward is not reckoned of grace but of debt. God will pay off His debt to you and then cast you into hell.

    The fact is, we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. And the wages of sin is death. So, if you want wages, these are the wages that you will earn...eternal separation from God.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  12. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Works are meritorious in God’s eyes for those who are members of Christ by baptism, Gal 3:27 1 pet 1:2
    Phil 1:29
     
  13. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Gal 3:27, For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    1Pe 1:2, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    Phl 1:29, For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    I fail to see how it is that you think that these verses are saying that works are meritorious towards saving a man.

    Does the holy scripture contradict itself?

    The scriptures teach that works do not contribute towards the salvation of a man.

    Ephesians 2:8-9 (kjv),

    Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved (?) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Romans 4:5-6 (kjv),

    Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
    Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

    Titus 3:5 (kjv),

    Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    Romans 11:5-6 (kjv),

    Rom 11:5, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
    Rom 11:6, And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  14. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    I never said works are meritorious
     
  15. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    A member of Christ by faith and baptism thru the grace of God, grace both saves and makes our faith and our works meritorious
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  17. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Members of Christ united to Christ in grace, grace gives the merits

    she is forgiven much cos she loves much
    The merciful shall obtain mercy
    Charity covers sins
     
  18. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    No he's not Behold, James is emphatically stating, that due to the unquantifiable nature of faith, like love, which cannot be measured or determined by statistics, it must therefore be validated by one's works.
    Many were professing to have faith, but their works undermined their integrity. James was asserting that without works, salvation was unattainable, because the works, or lack of, discredited the faith.
    Salvation is by faith alone, this is an extremely profound concept, for again, the veracity of one's faith cannot be assessed by a meter or graph. Thus, faith, like love, which equally cannot be measured or legislated, if you defy it's principles within your actions, then you have declared that you don't have faith.
     
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The thief on the Cross is an example of one who attained to salvation without any works.

    Again, Ephesians 2:8-9 (kjv), Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 4:5-6 (kjv), and Romans 11:5-6 (kjv), all testify to the fact that we are saved apart from works in the big picture.

    Works are only the icing on the cake...they are the sure result of a genuine faith if that faith is given the opportunity to be exercised.

    But in the case of a deathbed conversion, wherein a man calls on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13, Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12) and then dies one minute later, I know that the scripture testifies to the fact that his last breath on earth is his first breath in heaven; though his life was devoid of any works.
     
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  20. Spurgeon's Girl

    Spurgeon's Girl Active Member

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    Question. Are you saved by Jesus' blood, or baptism?
     
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