James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[Titus]

You would "think" that this "James" would reference himself as the "brother of Jesus" in his own writing.

You will not find that in his writing. Both the internal and external evidence for this author being "James the brother of Jesus" isn't there.

Can you quote James where he references himself as the brother of James? If others sought to provide distinction for him, then you would think he would do it himself.......

See how this works...... You don't get this on "Google"....

Are you not aware that other folks giving testimony of who he is, is much stronger evidence if he claimed it himself?

Do you think a jury is more convinced if I said I am the brother of Jesus?
Or, other men that told the jury that I am the brother of Jesus?

 

[praise_yeshua]

No apology for falsely accusing me of not being named Titus?

So I should have known just because you said you were Titus?

Do you not even understand how evidence works?

Maybe you should have used your full name so there wouldn't be any confusion.......

See how that works????

 

[Titus]

Again. Your only connect is the name "James". There were more than one James in the early church. You're floundering.

You will believe what you desire.
The overwhelming consensus is the book of James was written by Jesus' brother.

You Sir, are of the fringe

 

[praise_yeshua]

Are you not aware that other folks giving testimony of who he is, is much stronger evidence if he claimed it himself?

Do you think a jury is more convinced if I said I am the brother of Jesus?
Or, other men that told the jury that I am the brother of Jesus?

Nobody said anything about his writing.......

 

[Titus]

So I should have known just because you said you were Titus?

Do you not even understand how evidence works?

Maybe you should have used your full name so there wouldn't be any confusion.......

See how that works????

I see you want to make senseless attacks on others.

 

[Titus]

Nobody said anything about his writing.......

No need to.
Paul endorses James as a pillar in the ministry.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You will believe what you desire.
The overwhelming consensus is the book of James was written by Jesus' brother.

You Sir, are of the fringe

There is no concenscience. What conscenscience?

I said that the vast majority of Theologians accept there at least two James referenced in the NT. That is the concenscience.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I see you want to make senseless attacks on others.

I read the rules of this forum. It said not to use your real name.

Do you not follow the rules?

 

[praise_yeshua]

No need to.
Paul endorses James as a pillar in the ministry.

He promotes a "James". That is all you have.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I read the rules of this forum. It said not to use your real name.

Do you not follow the rules?

It is funny how people love to talk about "rules" and then never follow them themselves.....

 

[Titus]

It is funny how people love to talk about "rules" and then never follow them themselves.....

WHY ARE YOU QUOTING YOURSELF?

This is nonsense, good night

 

[praise_yeshua]

WHY ARE YOU QUOTING YOURSELF?

This is nonsense, good night

It was follow-up to what I said.....

 

[Titus]

I did not know this,

I read the rules of this forum. It said not to use your real name.

I do follow the law of Christ.

Are you trying to make me look bad by taking issue with me using my real name on here?

 

[Titus]

It was follow-up to what I said.....

We went from discussion on James, to you making personal attacks of me using my real name on here.

 

[Titus]

The overwhelming consensus is the book of James was written by Jesus' brother.

You Sir, are of the fringe

 

[praise_yeshua]

We went from discussion on James, to you making personal attacks of me using my real name on here.

Nonsense. I used your name as an example. Don't play wounded.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The overwhelming consensus is the book of James was written by Jesus' brother.

You Sir, are of the fringe

1600 years of a lie does have it's impact on people. I'm simply dealing with all the mistake you're making. You only use the appeal to conscience when you need to. You have mentioned many things in our discussion that isn't an argument from conscience.

 

[Brakelite]

You do know that James was referring to Abraham's faith in God to provide, right?

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

That is the faith James was referring to that requires works; as in leading by example; not faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

James was rebuking the church for sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting their immediate needs of those poor that were about to perish from the element and starvation from the bounty collected at church service. It is the church's faith in God to provide being issued to the poor that will not profit the poor nor save the poor, seeing the church's faith is dead without leading by example.

It is understandable for why many read James verses out of context thinking it applies also to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, but no. When reading verse 14, one should do so in context.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

So the church nor man is not justified nor righteous when sharing faith in God to provide to the poor if the church nor that believer cares to lead by example to the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor with what God had provided for them.

It is the church's faith in God to provide that is dead in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God to provide to the poor, will not profit the poor nor save the poor from the elements or starvation when the church does not care to lead by example.

James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as if needing works, because James was rebuking the church for getting out of helping the poor by callously sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting the immediate needs of the poor that were perishing.

Paul testifies to faith in Jesus Christ in salvation which is without works for why believing in Jesus Christ for salvation is the Good News for man.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Seems to me that this is another in the long line of long winded excuses for Christians to believe that salvation is unconditional... That obedience is nothing but an optional extra.

 

[Titus]

1600 years of a lie does have it's impact on people. I'm simply dealing with all the mistake you're making. You only use the appeal to conscience when you need to. You have mentioned many things in our discussion that isn't an argument from conscience.

Give evidence that the book of James is not Jesus' brother.

Give evidence that James is not Jesus' brother. Nearly all scholars believe James is written by Jesus' brother.

Why are all these men lying?
I can tell you the majority of these men believe in faith alone. So, they have good reason to discredit James as not authentic but they don't.

You are in the fringe group of conspiracy theorists.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Obedience cannot be faith only salvation friend.

Thank you being kind with your words in Christ.
But I have to respectfully disagree on what you are saying here, friend.
Did not the thief on the cross obey God by trusting in Jesus when he asked the Lord to remember when He comes into His Kingdom?
Did the thief on the cross do any works to be saved in that moment while he was on the cross?
Note: We cannot speculate on what happened prior of the thief’s life. All we have is the testimony of Scripture to go by here.

What about the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-14?
Jesus said that the Tax Collector was more justified by crying out unto God in seeking forgiveness of his sins with God over the Pharisee who made it all about works (and no grace). Are you telling me that the Tax Collector was doing a work by seeking forgiveness with God?

If you ever apologized to somebody, do you tell others that this was a laborious activity or job or work? If I sit there and do nothing but believe, I am not working. So when Jesus says, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent” (John 6:68), I believe that Jesus is referring to how this is God’s work (not our own work alone) ultimately. Granted, I am not proposing Calvinism here. I am strongly against Calvinism. What I am proposing is that our coming to the Lord Jesus is synergistic (But the work of God in our being able to have a chance at believing in Him is ultimately His work). We learn during the time of the Jews before the cross, that no man can come unto Jesus unless the Father draws Him (John 6:44). But this would not be a Calvinistic drawing but it was for those who have LEARNED of the Father already or had a relationship with Him (John 6:45).

In fact, we learn that the Holy Spirit needs to convict a person of their sin no doubt to get a person to believe.

John 16:8-9
“And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;”

So this suggest that even the third person of the Trinity needs to first act in our lives so that we can believe, as well.
Meaning, we cannot convict ourselves of our own sin on the level God requires in order to properly believe in Jesus for salvation.
In other words, we need to truly be broken before God with a godly sorrow. This is only possible by the working of God.

Anyways, when we skip back to verse 27 (John 6:27) that says, “Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.” We have to understand that this is talking to the Jews who did not believe Jesus. They sought after the physical things like the food, etcetera. They did not realize that Jesus was the bread of life (salvation) to change them.

After the ascension of Christ (Whereby He would sit down at the right hand of God): I believe Jesus will be the One to draw all men unto Him (Instead of the Father drawing them to Jesus).

John 12:32
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

So without this drawing by Christ (GOD) we cannot come to Jesus. There was a specific time (or times in our lives) whereby I believe God called us to come to Him. Without this drawing (or work of GOD or Christ), there is no possible way for us to truly believe in Him. Yes, while Christ is drawing us… we have free will to receive Him or reject Him. But without this drawing or work of GOD, we cannot truly believe in Him to be changed radically on a spiritual level whereby God changes our heart, mind, and lives (i.e. to be born again).

I believe the Jew that was craving the physical and not the spiritual needed to labor in studying God’s Word, and in seeking after God with all their heart (and not a half hearted attempt).

2 Timothy 3:15
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”

Jeremiah 29:13
“And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.”

But when you read verse 27, this labor is said to be a gift.

“Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you:”

This is the work of God not our own work. It’s God’s drawing to believe in God’s grace (Which is not of works done on our own).