Not a problem, it’s a confusion that happens extremely frequently!
JaneDoe's "What I believe"
- Thread starter Jane_Doe22
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Anyway, since those side conversations seem to be done, back to regularly scheduled programming :) For today I'll make a more in-depth post for a point that's been touched on before.
I don't believe in Sola Scriptura. Rather, when I sit down to study something, I optimally going to bring:
-My scriptures
-Prayers & listening ears so that the Holy Ghost may guide my understanding
-Knowledge of historical and cultural context
-Knowledge of how this issue has been approached in the past by other scolders / theologians / leaders. No man is an island and nor should we be.
I believe firmly that God should guide our understanding of things today. Both collectively thought prophets/apostles/new scripture, but also individually. There are lots of questions that come up that aren't a straight "well scripture says you should do XYZ" that are important. Work, education, living situations, etc. Prayerful study can help guide those decisions. And of course help guidance understanding of theology! Faith after all is is a gift from God!!
I don't believe in Sola Scriptura. Rather, when I sit down to study something, I optimally going to bring:
-My scriptures
-Prayers & listening ears so that the Holy Ghost may guide my understanding
-Knowledge of historical and cultural context
-Knowledge of how this issue has been approached in the past by other scolders / theologians / leaders. No man is an island and nor should we be.
I believe firmly that God should guide our understanding of things today. Both collectively thought prophets/apostles/new scripture, but also individually. There are lots of questions that come up that aren't a straight "well scripture says you should do XYZ" that are important. Work, education, living situations, etc. Prayerful study can help guide those decisions. And of course help guidance understanding of theology! Faith after all is is a gift from God!!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I have kind of a different take on this, Sister Jane. While I can see the practicality of what you're saying, I see Christ as being as perfectly holy as the Father and as kind of like a great expanse of space (not literally, of course), and Lucifer as more of a speck of troublesome dust. Like the universe is perfect, but sin has been quarantined to our tiny planet. Thus, this illustration, instead of a linear zero-sum equation with Christ on one side and Lucifer on the other. I don't really think Lucifer should be seen as being as evil as God is holy. Do you know what I mean?
I'm probably not making much sense.
I just think that, in a way, we take the devil too lightly but, on the other hand, in light of eternity and the vastness of the universe and the immense holiness of God and Christ, he gets too much credit, in a way. Sin is an outlier, an anomaly, an intruder, rather than a truly formidable competitor to God. In the end, and after vast ages of eternity have passed, and we have explored countless worlds and had close glimpses of the beauty of God's character, Lucifer will, in a sense, just be relegated to "that guy who used to be..."
I'll stop rambling now.
Always good to see you, Sis. :)
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Hi bro @Qoheleth, always good to see you!
I thank you for your post, and no I don't find it rambling at all. I've actually studied this perspective very in depth before, as it's a foundational one in Creedal Christianity. And honestly, it's part of the reason I'm not a Creedal Christian, as I reject it. I just don't find the needed straight-from-the-Bible evidence to support it. Furthermore, I find it minimizes / distracts for Christ and His righteousness. God isn't God because He's made of this "super substance" (for want of a better word), and you suck because you're made of "junk nothing substance" (again, want of a better word here). I suck because I choose to sin-- I willfully and knowingly choose to do things that are wrong and against God's ways. I acknowledge that and take fully take accountability-- I choose to sin. Not because I'm made of junk nothing substance or any other excuse. I choose to sin. In sharp contrast Jesus always choose to follow the will of the Father. His righteousness and majesty is unparalleled.
I hope that made since :) And again thank you for sharing!
Topic for Monday:
Faith and works. A person is saved by faith. Faith in Christ comes first in the Christian life: it's the very start & foundation of everything. You can't "work" you way to Heaven on your own- such an idea is downright laughable in it's absurdity. However, Christ did not live & die on a cross so you can say "I love Christ" and continue to smooch the devil's feet just like you did before. Rather, He says "if you love me, keep my commandments". We should strive to follow Him, giving our whole heart/might/mind/strength to Him. Yes, there's going to be mistakes along the way-- Christians still sin, sometimes hugely. Which is why repentance is not a "once and done" thing, but a continual process. Sanctification is a lifetime+ journey.
The purpose of Christ's commandments is not to a menial "to do list", or for you to pretend you're earning your way to heaven. But rather, they help us serve Hima and continue developing to be more like Him. Sanctification again :) For example, ultimately you should tell the truth not because it's a "to do list" item, but simply because you are a truthful person-- it's part of who you are through and through. Totally transformed. Though admittedly, a lot of us have a long journey there.
Faith and works. A person is saved by faith. Faith in Christ comes first in the Christian life: it's the very start & foundation of everything. You can't "work" you way to Heaven on your own- such an idea is downright laughable in it's absurdity. However, Christ did not live & die on a cross so you can say "I love Christ" and continue to smooch the devil's feet just like you did before. Rather, He says "if you love me, keep my commandments". We should strive to follow Him, giving our whole heart/might/mind/strength to Him. Yes, there's going to be mistakes along the way-- Christians still sin, sometimes hugely. Which is why repentance is not a "once and done" thing, but a continual process. Sanctification is a lifetime+ journey.
The purpose of Christ's commandments is not to a menial "to do list", or for you to pretend you're earning your way to heaven. But rather, they help us serve Hima and continue developing to be more like Him. Sanctification again :) For example, ultimately you should tell the truth not because it's a "to do list" item, but simply because you are a truthful person-- it's part of who you are through and through. Totally transformed. Though admittedly, a lot of us have a long journey there.
I think I'll go through the Articles of Faith. These are central tenants of belief, and are considered to be scripture. They're really short, so I'll add some commentary are well going deeper into things. This will take a couple of days to go through. Link is here: The Articles of Faith: 13 Beliefs | ComeUntoChrist
#1: "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost."
Jane Commentary: Yes, the Father + Jesus Christ + the Holy Ghost are each God. Three different persons, in 1 God.
#2: "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression."
Jane Commentary: a man is punished for their sins and their sins only. A newborn baby is without sin, as they haven't done anything yet. Also, to sin requires knowledge of the truth, deeds done in ignorance are transgressions.
#1: "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost."
Jane Commentary: Yes, the Father + Jesus Christ + the Holy Ghost are each God. Three different persons, in 1 God.
#2: "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression."
Jane Commentary: a man is punished for their sins and their sins only. A newborn baby is without sin, as they haven't done anything yet. Also, to sin requires knowledge of the truth, deeds done in ignorance are transgressions.
Behold
Well-Known Member
I have a request for you.
The next time you want to PREACH and Teach, your mormon theology for 4 pages, under the guise of "TESTIMONY">.. .. .why dont you not do it on the TESTIMONY Page?
As explained in the OP, this was my sharing what I believe thread. Yes, my testimony.
If after this and the multiple page PM conversation we had, you want to start another thread you are welcome to do so.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Why are you misusing a Testimony section, to post your theology?
Theology is not "Testimony".
So, be honest, at least.
Behold, if it so bothers you that I love Christ and I’m talking about it, that’s your personal problem.
Have a nice day.
Behold
Well-Known Member
I have no idea what you feel.
But i do know that this is not a THEOLOGY section of the forum
Its a TESTIMONY section, (Testimonial)... and you are teaching theology on it.
When will you stop?
Sorry, but I’m not stopping sharing my love of Christ and bearing my testimony.
Have a nice day.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Articles of Faith #3 & 4.
"3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."
These are best talked about together and there's a lot to unpack, going deeper than just these short summaries. First of all "All mankind may be saved". Jesus Christ died for every single person, the atonement is not limited to just one class of people and unavailable to others. All men will be saved from physical death-- aka everyone will be resurrected.
But not everyone will be saved from spiritual death-- that is separation of your spirit from God. For that, a person must have faith! That is the very first principle of the Gospel, and the foundation of everything. Second they must repent. Then baptism by immersion for remission of sins, the old sinner symbolically being buried and new disciple emerging from the water. And then lay on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Now, if a person did not have the opportunity to be baptized or even hear of Christ to have faith in Him, are they just out of luck? Or does God bend the rules for them? No! Rather it is believed that every person will have the opportunity to hear of Him after death (but before Final Judgement) and embrace Him with faith. Baptism and all can then be done vicariously.
"3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."
These are best talked about together and there's a lot to unpack, going deeper than just these short summaries. First of all "All mankind may be saved". Jesus Christ died for every single person, the atonement is not limited to just one class of people and unavailable to others. All men will be saved from physical death-- aka everyone will be resurrected.
But not everyone will be saved from spiritual death-- that is separation of your spirit from God. For that, a person must have faith! That is the very first principle of the Gospel, and the foundation of everything. Second they must repent. Then baptism by immersion for remission of sins, the old sinner symbolically being buried and new disciple emerging from the water. And then lay on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Now, if a person did not have the opportunity to be baptized or even hear of Christ to have faith in Him, are they just out of luck? Or does God bend the rules for them? No! Rather it is believed that every person will have the opportunity to hear of Him after death (but before Final Judgement) and embrace Him with faith. Baptism and all can then be done vicariously.
Articles of Faith 5 & 6:
"5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth"
Yes, I do believe that God calls men ("men" = humans) to be leaders. Apostles, prophets, pastors, etc still exist today--- God hasn't changed His ways.
A calling from God should be FROM GOD, not you just deciding "I want to be in charge". God does have an organized external Church to help preach / teach / support / lead / fellowship / etc. All authority is from God- the servant is not the one in charge, nor does the power come from the servant. The servant also is still human and can still mess up. If you want to know a person is from God, go ask Him yourself.
"5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth"
Yes, I do believe that God calls men ("men" = humans) to be leaders. Apostles, prophets, pastors, etc still exist today--- God hasn't changed His ways.
A calling from God should be FROM GOD, not you just deciding "I want to be in charge". God does have an organized external Church to help preach / teach / support / lead / fellowship / etc. All authority is from God- the servant is not the one in charge, nor does the power come from the servant. The servant also is still human and can still mess up. If you want to know a person is from God, go ask Him yourself.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Why are you posting Mormon Doctrine, Theology, on the "Testimonial" page?
And when will you stop?
Article of Faith #7: "We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth."
I love the gift of the Spirit! They are so precious! For me personally, mine is discernment of spirits (one of the "and so forth"). All gifts are to be used to further God's ways, serving Him & our community.
One that gets a lot of attention is the gift of tongues. I don't believe this to be speaking in an unknown language in a theatrical manner, but rather speaking in known languages to better spread His message. In Acts that's what it was used for, so every man could hear the Gospel in his own tongue. My sister is very gifted in this manner, I am not. Though, upon lots of study & reflection I do find I have a gift for understanding people-- not in Spanish or Mandarin, but speaking just in English and to truly understand them as a person and what they mean when they speak.
I love the gift of the Spirit! They are so precious! For me personally, mine is discernment of spirits (one of the "and so forth"). All gifts are to be used to further God's ways, serving Him & our community.
One that gets a lot of attention is the gift of tongues. I don't believe this to be speaking in an unknown language in a theatrical manner, but rather speaking in known languages to better spread His message. In Acts that's what it was used for, so every man could hear the Gospel in his own tongue. My sister is very gifted in this manner, I am not. Though, upon lots of study & reflection I do find I have a gift for understanding people-- not in Spanish or Mandarin, but speaking just in English and to truly understand them as a person and what they mean when they speak.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
When will you stop and who made you boss? Jane has every right as you do to profess her faith, if she is doing something wrong I’m sure the admins will warn her.
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