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Jehovah is either God or He is not, correct?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Robert Gwin, Jan 5, 2022.

  1. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Is the Bible wrong to state: (Exodus 20:5) . . .for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion. . .

    Was Jesus wrong to state: (Matthew 4:10) . . .“Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
    (Luke 10:27) . . .“‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ . . .

    Are we in error when we Christians say: (1 Corinthians 8:6) . . .there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ. . .
     
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  2. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    Well you forget that in the Hebrew, the shema says Jehovah is an Elohim, not an Elowah. And that Jehovah is one elohim, not many like the pagan triads.

    God the Father is above all in position, but Jesus is equal to His Father in essence or nature. whatever Jehovah is, Jesus is! Like dogs prodice dogs, so whatever the momma and poppa dogs are, the puppies are.

    But as Jesus is eternal WITH HIs father only His human body was created so He could die and pay for our sins. His Spirit body was never created. Teh Greek makes that clear!
     
  3. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    Why do you assume the bible is incorrect?

    Are you not aware that All false gods are nothing but demonic deception.

    The bible is telling the truth when it says there is only one God
     
  4. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Active Member

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    Nope nothing wrong at all. Hear O Israel - our God is ONE Lord - Father, Son and Holy SPirit per Jesus.

    And we have no concept at all of the totality of God. He said so, and I believe Him.
     
  5. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    And was Jesus wrong when He said this?

    John 5:23
    That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    If we worship the Father, we are to worship the son. And only God deserves worship!

    The word honor is "timao"

    Which means:

    1. to estimate, fix the value
      1. for the value of something belonging to one's self
    2. to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerate
    So the bible as written destroys the Watchtower teachings as they attempted to rewrite the bible.
     
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  6. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't use the term equal Ron, as that indicates position. Now I perhaps might agree in essence or nature, being that they are both spirit beings, but that includes all the spirit beings as well, both faithful and those who chose to stand in opposition to Him.
     
  7. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree sir, nice meeting you, you may be the first individual I have had the privilege of conversing with from London, kind of a humbling experience in a way. Isn't technology great? Especially when used in the way of the truth.
     
  8. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bob, If I forget your name sir, please shoot me. ;) Yes the Bible states Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, which if it was in my power I would change to read Jehovah our God is one God, but we present it as it was originally written.

    The Bible consistently teaches that Jehovah is God, and that Jesus is His firstborn son. Jehovah is the God Jesus worshipped and promoted sir. The holy spirit is so involved in God's creation it is amazing. Did you know that it is what animates our bodies made from the dust of the earth? When that spirit, called breath in the application goes out, we are no longer alive. Nice conversing with you sir.
     
  9. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Not at all sir, Jesus is very deserving of that honor. Interestingly believe it or not the elders of the congregation are mentioned as deserving double honor Ron at 1 Timothy 5:17.

    May I ask what is the best way to show honor to an individual?
     
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  10. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Amen!

    Would not Jesus to God perhaps be more like Joseph to Pharaoh?

    "Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou." Gen 41:40

    "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28
     
  11. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    No, equal means the same in the context of what is being talked about. In this case, they are not equal in position, but they are equal in essence. Jesus is just as divine as His Father or equally divine.

    Just like your children are equally as human in essence as you are!

    In the case of the Timothy passage teh context clearly shows it is talking about payment or salary!

    How does one honor Jesus? the exact same way one honors HIs Father! By worship and recognizing what the Bible says that jesus is also God with His father.
     
  12. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Yes sir, very good analogy. Basically exactly the same, Joseph was #2 in authority in Egypt, Jesus is #2 in heaven. That is what sitting at God's right hand means, being His right hand man means He is second only to Jehovah.
     
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  13. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    No sir, one shows honor through obedience. A Christian obeys Jesus Ron, that is how we show honor. A Christian worships only Jehovah in obedience to Jesus' teaching Mat 4:10

    You are confused by some versions directing worship to Jesus, but you are quite likely unfamiliar with the original word Proskuneo which has several degrees, such as even kissing the hand. Compare Mat 18:26 which you will likely help you to understand it's usage. The actual literal meaning of the word Worship is to be rendered to Jehovah exclusively, but honor can be issued to virtually everyone sir.
     
  14. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    Wrong! One shows honor bey reverence. Obedience is sim-ply what is required of all. and Mt. 4:10 does not preclude Jesus being worshippe3d! It simply says You must worship Jehovah your Elohim (plural) and Jesus is called jehovah!
     
  15. Desire Of All Nations

    Desire Of All Nations Active Member

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    That passage actually reads in the inspired text as "hear, oh Israel, our God alone". It does not say "our God is one". The context of the passage shows Moses was emphasizing to the Israelites that God's voice is the only voice they were supposed to listen to. Despite trinitarian attempts to use it as proof that the trinity is biblical, it ironically highlights how deceived they are.

    The trinity doctrine supposes that the Israelites already knew about the Father's existence since Moses' day, which they clearly did not since Jesus had to reveal it to them. If the trinity was taught anywhere in the OT, logic dictates that the Orthodox Jews wouldn't have needed Jesus to reveal the Father's existence to them. And since they did, trinitarians are completely wrong in surmising that this fallacious doctrine is biblical.

    God also said nothing about how people can't understand who He is. It is yet another fallacious argument trinitarians use to (a) silence opposing positions into submission and (b) prevent themselves from even realizing the depths of their error. What God actually said is that human beings will not always be able to understand His thoughts and why He does things a certain way, which is a far cry from saying He doesn't want people to understand who He is. When all of the various trinity doctrines are placed under biblical scrutiny, they all reveal an evil spirit that doesn't want to be exposed and a counterfeit Jesus being preached.
     
  16. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is never called Jehovah, and it would have been plain ridiculous on satans part to offer God all the Kingdoms of the world if He would bow down to him. The temptation was real, and could have been accepted by Jesus. I explained the degrees of the word worship adequately Ron, you simply choose not to agree which of course is fine.
     
  17. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    "We are one. "
     
  18. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    One thing you also fail to understand- honor here is not a term for respect, but is a term in estimating value! so it has nothing to do with our actions of obedience. It has everything to do with how we value both the Father and Son. However we values the Father,we must value the Son.

    Jesus showed Himself God, called Himself God, Injspired the wrtiers of Scripture to call HIm god, why the watchtower deceives its flocks to not do so is a tragic mystery!

    John 20:28
    And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    We all know the Watchtower Thomas was shouitng a surprised exclamation! That is pure manure!!!

    1. that would have been blasphemy for a jew.
    2. Jews did not come up with exclamations involving God
    3. Thomas had already seen Him and heard Him and was told to put his fingers in his wounds.
    4. Thomas made a declaration.

    How do we know it is true?

    If Jesus was not Jehovah Elohim (the Hebrew N.T. He would have rebuked Thomas for blasphemy! He didn't.

    Instead He said you believe I am God because you see, but blessed are those who believe this truth:

    John 1:1
    King James Version

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    But don't see.
     
  19. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    YOu are so narrow minded you forget teh rest of Scripture to strain at your gnats!

    Jesus emptied HImself to come to earth.

    God gave Satan the kingdoms of this world due to mans sin.

    Jeus was offered those kingdoms (which are his ultimately).

    Degrees of worship? so you accept the catholic ideas here?

    It iss easy to say the word worship has many levels of degree, but not to one who has studied Greek and Hebrew and nknows you are lying for your watchtower masters.

    And yes Jesus is called Jehovah, also the first and last and the almightry and god! I have posted these from Gods Word. You can accept that bowl of pottage from teh Watchtower, but you sacrifice your birthright for that meal that will not satisfy.
     
  20. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is the everlasting living Word and is NEVER wrong!!
     
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