Jesus and Commands

[Stranger]

Of course not. Why should God be required to keep a law that is not only no longer in effect but only existed for sinners?

I agree, God does not keep the law.

Stranger

 

[Dcopymope]

No I didn't. God is not the law. I showed you how God is not the Law.

So do you presume the law is above God, since you presume God is keeping the law?

Stranger

HA!!!! Yeah ok, I see you just want to create an issue where there really is none, typical with the people on this site. No one is above the law, and the law IS God. Got it? Good.

 

[Stranger]

HA!!!! Yeah ok, I see you just want to create an issue where there really is none, typical with the people on this site. No one is above the law, and the law IS God. Got it? Good.

Perhaps there is an issue that you don't want to address.

The law is not God. You say no one is above the law. Is the law above God?

Stranger

 

[KBCid]

I agree, God does not keep the law.
Stranger

But... can you explain why?

 

[Stranger]

But... can you explain why?

Because He is God. He doesn't keep the Law. He just exists as God.

Stranger

 

[Dcopymope]

Perhaps there is an issue that you don't want to address.

An issue you created out of thin air.

 

[Stranger]

An issue you created out of thin air.

That you don't want to address.

Stranger

 

[Dcopymope]

That you don't want to address.

Stranger

Already have, it just wasn't the answer you wanted.

 

[Stranger]

Already have, it just wasn't the answer you wanted.

You gave wrong answers, as God is not the Law. And you never gave the answer. Is the law above God?

Stranger

 

[Dcopymope]

You gave wrong answers, as God is not the Law. And you never gave the answer. Is the law above God?

Stranger

I gave the answer, you just didn't like it, so this continues, I guess because you are bored. Is that it?

 

[Stranger]

I gave the answer, you just didn't like it, so this continues, I guess because you are bored. Is that it?

No, you gave the wrong answer and I showed you why. I didn't like it because it was the wrong answer. Is the law above God?

Stranger

 

[Dcopymope]

No, you gave the wrong answer and I showed you why. I didn't like it because it was the wrong answer. Is the law above God?

Stranger

By what standard was the cherub in the garden found to be in iniquity?

(Ezekiel 28:13-16) "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. {14} Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. {15} Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. {16} By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

 

[Richard_oti]

As "reasonable", "good" and "loving" parents, we set "rules" or "limits" for our children. These are the things we "ask" of our children. We do this, in order not to allow our children to run rampant, be "evil", do whatever they may deem "right" in their own eyes, in order for our children to be a "peculiar" people unto us.

What is the best manner in which our children demonstrate their love for us? Simple: do as we ask.

If a child was to be so rebellious as to not do any of these things, once they were "adults", we would throw them out on their butts. Hopefully that is not the case for anyone here.


So also, "God" has a people that are "peculiar" unto Him. A people who out of love and respect are willing to do as He asks of His people.

The big bad boogey man that is the "Law", is what "God" has asked of his people to follow in order that they might also be a people "peculiar" unto Him.

NIV Rom 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify the law by this faith?
Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


It is by the "Law", that we may know what "sin" is. (Yes, I know, I ended that with a preposition)

KJV 1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Very clear from my perspective.

Just as in Matthew 7:23, when Jesus says away from me you that ...

ASV Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What is iniquity?


If the law is done away with, then according to what "standard" or "measure" may anyone be "condemned" or sent to "hell"?

"God" has set before us a "standard" or a "measure". Life or death, blessings and curses (cf Deut 11:26-28, 30:15).

We have the choice, we have free will. Either do and live, or don't and die.


ASV Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.


Our rules for our children, should impart to them to "love" their parents, and to "love" their fellow schoolmates, etc.. The "rules" we pass down to them, define "evil" behavior, as do they define "good" behavior. Just as the big bad boogey man that is the "Law" imparts to us how "God" desires for us to love Him, and how he desires for us to love fellow man. What is "evil" in the eyes of "God", and what is "good" in the eyes of "God".

 

[Richard_oti]

Would anyone say that the Beatitudes in
Mathew 5:3-10 are commandments?

No, I would not. They in effect state the "reward". However they are not really new, for they are concepts mostly contained elsewhere in the Scriptures, large part in Psalms if memory serves. You who would love and obey the Law of "God", be careful you are not found attempting to add or subtract from it (cf Deut 4:2).

 

[KBCid]

By what standard was the cherub in the garden found to be in iniquity?

Ah very good reply. There has been a standard from the beginning that any created being could cross the line on. Of course Stranger will then reply "was God subject to that standard" and so on.

 

[Dcopymope]

Ah very good reply. There has been a standard from the beginning that any created being could cross the line on. Of course Stranger will then reply "was God subject to that standard" and so on.

Well he probably had to move on, or I'm sure he would have given the predictable answer. He'll probably say "God is not the law, because God is God", and then pretend as if this somehow answers the question. It really is not a valid answer as it pertains to how Satan fell from glory.

 

[KBCid]

Because He is God. He doesn't keep the Law. He just exists as God. Stranger

I would assert that God establishes the law just as he says men can do because these are a proper manner of conduct in a social environment.

Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts

How could Joseph sin against God before the 10 commandments were given?
Genesis 39:7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me 8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand; 9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

Consider further that this entire section of Romans deals with mankind before the commandments were given. God's standard of social morality has existed from the beginning and men knew what it was then.
From God's POV and standard that which was created should honor their creator and they should follow the basic rules of any society that would exist in peace.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

All of these unrighteous actions being recounted about men from the beginning of creation end up being restated in the covenant with Israel. What we know from God about God is that they give us these rules for our Good just as we make rules for our children for their good. There are no arbitrary rules from God for the purpose of simply making them a ruler.

 

[mjrhealth]

1. What are the proper clothing?
Only YOU are wearing them?

2. Everyone has a plastic face except YOU?

Sounds really self-righteous to me coming from someone who believes that only Christ could make us righteous.

Has Christ failed then??

Well sorry, can you make yourself righteous??? What have I to boast of, Christ Jesus and all that He has done, I have done nothing and can do nothing to earn anything.

 

[dataylor]

Seems there is a lot of confusion about "The Law." Perhaps many do not realize how the law was not just given to the Israelites, but the law was the Old Covenant. Here's the proof:

And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments (Exodus 34:27-28).

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you (the Israelites) to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone (Deuteronomy 4:13).

But as Christians, both Israelites and Gentiles are called to a much higher law, God's law of love:

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will [future tense] make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will [future tense] put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people (Jeremiah 31:31-33)

Christians are to obey God's royal law of love, which is far and above the covenant made with Israel:

If, however, you are fulfilling the royal (Greek: the King's law -- or God's law) law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well (James 2:8).

And this is why Paul could write:

"But if you are led by the Spirit (the law of love that motivates God Himself), you are not under the Law" (Gal 5:18).

 

[mjrhealth]

imo this fails however if you have ever sinned in the past, even once, as all obviously have.

Exactly