Jesus' ASCENSION, and what actually occurred.

[Timtofly]

You MUST be thinking of someone else.

I have NEVER claimed Jesus only became God after His crucifixion and ascension.

The man Adam was a soul God made and placed in... a flesh shell. The flesh shell, like Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 reveals, is made up of earthly matter, NOT spirit. And when the flesh dies, it goes BACK to earthly matter, a flesh body is NOT ETERNAL.

Within Adam and Eve's flesh, dwelt the "law of sin". Before Satan's tempting, they just hadn't sinned... yet. And it was Eve's FLESH desires and lusts that made her sin, along with Adam.

So the fabrication that Adam and Eve dwelt in the perfection of flesh prior to sinning is just another stupid doctrine of OCCULTISTS who wrongly believe in perfection of the FLESH!

Here's the OCCULTISTS theory of evolution, from which Darwin actually got part of his theory from:

Occult theory of evoution - water produces living organisms that evolve into mineral and plant life, then aquatic life, then land creatures and animals, then humans. That is where Darwinism evolution theory stops, with man being the highest evolution in the chain. But the Occultists go further, the LAST state of evolution is from a man to a god! That... is what Darwin evolution theory is secretly 'suggesting' to your mind, indirectly, when teaching evolution theory.

Satan is the father of evolution theory.

The actual fossil evidence shows a sudden springing forth of life forms, and then a sudden destruction, and then a sudden springing forth of new life. In other words, the fossil record supports the idea of sudden creation.

Ecclesiastes?

From the occultist Solomon married to 1,000 women and their foreign gods. Solomon who forsook the God who gave him wisdom. You should be quoting from Proverbs, not the rants of one who turned his back on God.

Your humanism shows in your description of Adam and Eve prior to Adam's disobedience. You need to re-read Paul, not man's humanistic theological garbage.

I know how the sons of God were created on the 6th Day. You deny they were even the sons of God. You don't have to get into a counterfeit diatribe to explain your thoughts. I am comfortable discussing actual Scripture.

 

[Truth7t7]

The scriptures do indeed teach that Jesus gave His body to the church before going to the Father whom is spirit. You are just not doing the math.

I also explained how the scriptures show Jesus returns, as apposed to how He enters heaven: That it is just as He said, that He had give His body to the church, and then explained how, saying, "'Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me'...which is not Him in His old or even glorified original flesh, but rather (as it is written) in His body the church, in spirit."

But you have misunderstood the scriptures to mean that He enters heaven the same way that He returns--but that is not what they said. They only said in what manner He would return--not how.

Believe it or not.

"Your claims are laughable"!

The scripture before your eyes states a "physical", "visible", Jesus Christ went to heaven in a cloud, no scripture teaches otherwise as you falsely claim

Acts 1:9-11KJV
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[ScottA]

"Your claims are laughable"!

The scripture before your eyes states a "physical", "visible", Jesus Christ went to heaven in a cloud, no scripture teaches otherwise as you falsely claim

Acts 1:9-11KJV
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Again, you are not doing the math.

You are not taking into account all of what Jesus said of all who are born of the spirit:

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
​

You have believed only what you believe they saw. But I have been telling you what they did not see.

Mark 4:24b
With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given.
​

So be it.

 

[Timtofly]

You never addressed the matter of what 'kind of body' was Lord Jesus in BEFORE He was born through woman's womb.

I well know Lord Jesus existed from ETERNITY. But in what KIND of body before being born through Mary?

What is the point about before? Conception is a pretty narrow field. Conception was when the Lord God became flesh. The ascended body also always existed, because that body can exist outside of time and creation, and is not limited by creation. Jesus and the Word do not cease to exist after creation is handed back to God.

"For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Word and Son will be subjected to God, but will not cease to exist like the rest of creation. John sees it as heaven and earth fled away, and were no longer found. Paul sees it as all returning back to God from whence all creation came from in Genesis 1:1.

Many claim a pre-incarnate body. My point is a post Cross body has always existed, once Jesus ascended as the Lamb on Sunday morning after seeing Mary. When Jesus appeared to Abraham that body had the marks of the Cross. Abraham saw the day of the Cross in the actual body. Abraham knew God was the Atonement Lamb. Abraham knew a resurrection was possible. Genesis 22:8

"And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together."

That was a prophetic statement of faith. Not just for that day. It was for all time.

Later in Hebrews 11 we see Abraham's obedience was an act of faith:

"By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure."

This points out that Abraham knew Isaac could be raised from the dead. As a type of the resurrection of the Son of God. Of course we know Isaac was not killed but spared death, as a type of the redeemed after the Cross would no longer taste death. John 8:56-57

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Abraham saw the body. Jesus did not say Abraham just heard about it. Even those there asked Jesus how? Jesus explained He was the I AM. Jesus appeared to Abraham with a post resurrection body. Jesus told those in His audience about the event even before the Cross happened. Jesus taught that His Body as the Atonement Lamb would always be. Abraham saw that body and was glad because of the Atonement. Abraham obeyed God to the point of sacrificing his own son, knowing full well of a resurrection.

 

[Timtofly]

Your claim is "False"!

Jesus maintained a "Human Body" of flesh, bone, and "Blood" that literally died a physical death on Calvary before the resurrection

Jesus was glorified in a resurrected immortal body of flesh and bone "After The Resurrection", being the first fruit of the resurrection

Your theology and eschatology is so out in left field, I don't take your responses seriously

1 Corinthians 15:22-23KJV
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

You deny so much of God's Word. Of course there was death on the Cross. Do you have a quote of me denying that?

I posted that Jesus was 100% human. Jesus is still 100% human, and has always been 100% human, even before creation. But you can keep denying and denying.

 

[Truth7t7]

Again, you are not doing the math.

You are not taking into account all of what Jesus said of all who are born of the spirit:

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
​

You have believed only what you believe they saw. But I have been telling you what they did not see.

Mark 4:24b
With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given.
​

So be it.

Scott your not the math teacher, far from it!

 

[Behold]

This is how Paul came to say, "for me, to live is Christ", and why he came to announce and reveal the mystery of marriage

The "mystery of Marriage" regarding Christianity, which is to exist born again Spiritually as "ONE with God", is the same idea and literal reality as becoming : the "Bride of Christ"..

To exist eternally as " ONE with God", is to exist as having eternal life "in Christ".

John 17:23.

""I in the born again, and thou God in me, that they may be made perfect in ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."""

 

[Truth7t7]

I posted that Jesus was 100% human. Jesus is still 100% human, and has always been 100% human, even before creation. But you can keep denying and denying.

Jesus isn't human as you falsely claim

Humans die physical death, Jesus Christ is immortal, and has conquered human death

As stated, your theology is way out in left field, the very reason I ignore response to your claims

 

[Behold]

Jesus isn't human as you falsely claim

The body of Jesus that died for the sin of the world is absolutely Human.

God became one of us, virgin born, to save all of us.

 

[Truth7t7]

The body of Jesus that died for the sin of the world is absolutely Human.

God became one of us, virgin born, to save all of us.

Nobody deny's Jesus "Was" human

Jesus is not "Presently Human" as Timtofly claims below, you are outside of our conversation

Quote Timtofly post #25

Jesus is still 100% human, and has always been 100% human, even before creation.

 

[Enoch111]

Humans die physical death, Jesus Christ is immortal, and has conquered human death

There is no question that Christ died for our sins and rose again for our justification. He was resurrected in the same human body which was crucified, yet it was transformed and freed from all human limitations. Now it is a glorious immortal body of flesh and bones. And all God's children will receive similar immortal and glorious bodies at the Resurrection/Rapture.

 

[Behold]

Nobody deny's Jesus "Was" human

Jesus is not "Presently Human" as Timtofly claims below, you are outside of our conversation

Quote Timtofly post #25

Jesus is still 100% human, and has always been 100% human, even before creation.

Yes i know.

I responded to your post., and thank you for posting Timtofly's.

And regarding TimTofly's comments.

Genesis : teaches that Adam or "man" was made in "OUR Image".
The reason that the verse says '""OUR""", is because this is referring to Christ, the WORD, Pre-incarnate, AND also... God the Father.
Those are 2, who are ONE.

If you read only the book of Genesis 1000 times, you'll never find a verse in it that says that Christ has a body, in Heaven.
This is because before Jesus became Virgin born, He existed IN God, as the WORD, who "was" God, = John 1 teaches.
Christ pre-incarnate is not a part of the "host of heaven" who have celestial bodies.
They are a part of the Creation, and Jesus is not. He is God the Word, He is... the "OUR" Image.

Pre-Incarnate Christ has no literal body before He came down from Glory. This is because Christ is God, as the WORD, and God is A Spirit. = The HOLY Spirit.
Some really bad versions of the Bible muck up this verse and state that "God is Spirit", vs, God is A Spirit.
And why does that matter, ? ... And Why is it so very important to know that God is >A< Spirit, and not just "spirit"?
Its because there are many types of Spirits, including the UN-HOLY Spirit.
So, if your bible does not state on the page that ""God is A Spirit""", and states incorrectly that "God is Spirit", then your so called "bible" has not made the TRUE distinction between God the Holy Spirit, and any other "spirit", including the UN-HOLY Spirit.
So, check your "bible", as that distinction really really matters.

Now what about that Resurrection Body. ?

Ok, that is 2nd Adam, Jesus the RISEN, in the resurrected body.
It has no blood in it.
This heavenly resurrected body is the same TYPE that all of the born again will receive , as THEIR resurrection Body..

See : the RATURE for an update.

Reader,..

Why do you have to have a new body that is FIT for Heaven?
Its because your current body is : "dead because of Sin" and will rot back into the earth, unless they cremate you, and then your ashes will do the same if they spread your ashes over the ground.
So, you have to receive a NEW Body that is the eternal and spiritual match for your "born again Spirit".
You will receive this in the : Rapture.
Don't miss it.

 

[ScottA]

There is no question that Christ died for our sins and rose again for our justification. He was resurrected in the same human body which was crucified, yet it was transformed and freed from all human limitations. Now it is a glorious immortal body of flesh and bones. And all God's children will receive similar immortal and glorious bodies at the Resurrection/Rapture.

Not you too!!

"Flesh and bones" are made from the ground, dust, which are the elements that "will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63a
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
​

Better to agree with John:

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
​

However, if Jesus has come into us (and we in Him)--then it has now been revealed.

 

[Enoch111]

"Flesh and bones" are made from the ground, dust, which are the elements that "will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

You are forgetting something which is fundamental -- God has the power to TRANSFORM dust into immortal glorious bodies! If you do not believe this, then there is definitely a problem.

 

[ScottA]

You are forgetting something which is fundamental -- God has the power to TRANSFORM dust into immortal glorious bodies! If you do not believe this, then there is definitely a problem.

Yes, God can certainly do anything, but you are going against scripture to assume that He does.

 

[Enoch111]

Yes, God can certainly do anything, but you are going against scripture to assume that He does.

Well if you think that, explain the appearance of Christ after His bodily resurrection as presented in Scripture.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, God can certainly do anything, but you are going against scripture to assume that He does.

Your responses are walking against Einstein, self serving

 

[Truth7t7]

Not you too!!

"Flesh and bones" are made from the ground, dust, which are the elements that "will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63a
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
​

Better to agree with John:

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
​

However, if Jesus has come into us (and we in Him)--then it has now been revealed.

Self!

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, God can certainly do anything, but you are going against scripture to assume that He does.

Its Scott who is going against scripture, in removing biblical truth through symbolic allegory "Shame"!

 

[Davy]

Ecclesiastes?

From the occultist Solomon married to 1,000 women and their foreign gods. Solomon who forsook the God who gave him wisdom. You should be quoting from Proverbs, not the rants of one who turned his back on God.

So now you are CALLING SOLOMON a LIAR with Bible Scripture which God influences His people by The Holy Spirit to understand? Lord Jesus agreed with Solomon in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, why can't you...

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV

Your humanism shows in your description of Adam and Eve prior to Adam's disobedience. You need to re-read Paul, not man's humanistic theological garbage.

I know how the sons of God were created on the 6th Day. You deny they were even the sons of God. You don't have to get into a counterfeit diatribe to explain your thoughts. I am comfortable discussing actual Scripture.

Thank you, what you said is just MORE EVIDENCE that you follow an AGENDA BY MEN, and NOT the written Word of God!