Jesus' ASCENSION, and what actually occurred.

[ScottA]

For these past two thousand years of the church age most have misunderstood what actually occurred when Jesus ascended into heaven (as opposed to what occurred at his resurrection from the dead on earth).

He did indeed raise from the dead, went through walls and locked doors, ate fish, walked and talked, and even felt like His former flesh to the touch--because He was flesh. But just as He could have at any time, even before He rose from the dead, prayed and brought down legions of angels--His resurrection was not the same as His ascension. They were two different and separate acts, different for a reason: because being raised from the grave is NOT the same as "going to the Father."

When Jesus said in the scriptures that "God is spirit"--no flesh is included. Flesh is of the world, created of the dust. God is not created of the dust, nor has He intended to be lower than He already is, as the world is lower. On the contrary, He is not lowered except in Christ for salvation, but rather we are to be lifted up--to be prefect "as He is perfect"--just the way He is--which "is spirit." And that is what happened at Jesus' ascension, that did not happen at His resurrection.

So..."all are raised up the last day" but all are not "going to the Father" as Jesus did.

Incidentally, in between these two [different] events is the Judgement. But back to Jesus' ascension:​

The understandable confusion that has caused most to consider these two different events as actually being one event although they were clearly two, believing that we go straight from the grave to the Father; and therefore we must surely be regenerated into a form of "glorified flesh" to live out eternity as Jesus did for a mere forty days between His resurrection and His ascension...is that the angel of the Lord said He would return "in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

Completely understandable, but wrong. Oh the angel was correct, just not fully understood. When the angel said "in like manner" both factors of His resurrection and His ascension are included. Which is the part that needs explaining, but was not, and has not been for all this time.

Why now?...Because now is the time of "the sounding of the seventh angel" of Revelation.
​

The explanation then, from two perspectives:

1) The "like manner" which the disciples of Jesus saw, was what Jesus foretold of "all who are born of the spirit." As it is written, "while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight." Unlike Jesus' resurrection in the flesh, Jesus was born of the spirit and therefore "out of their sight" just as it is with "all who are born of the spirit." It is this being born of the Spirit which makes Jesus "the firstfruits" (of the Spirit).

Thus, what the disciples saw was not actually what they saw, but what they didn't see but were told by Jesus beforehand and believed.

2) The "like manner" which the disciples DID see was what?...It was the like manner in which He would "so come" again. Which, yes, is in the form of flesh and blood...only not as it has been believed and taught, but again, as it was foretold by Jesus.

But, just as has been the case with His foretelling about "all who are born of the spirit" of whom He is "firstfruits"...the explanation is back in the gospels foretold but not yet fully realized. Which would not and could not be put together until the times are fulfilled, or things would not have gone the way that it was also foretold...that is, to include the believing of a "lie", "strong delusion" and a time of "great apostacy." Which is to the gentiles like the crucifixion is to Israel. Just as it is written, "For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either."

This then, is what Jesus foretold of Him coming [again] "in like manner"--that is "in" the flesh:

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
​

Just as the Holy Spirit descended like a dove upon Jesus and remained, by the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ "the firstfruits" has come and does come to "anyone [who] hears [His] voice and opens the door."

This is how Paul came to say, "for me, to live is Christ", and why he came to announce and reveal the mystery of marriage and that the church is the "body of Christ." Which, as Jesus said, we must "take, eat", for He also said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me."

"From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more." Just as it has been now for the longest time.​

 

[Truth7t7]

For these past two thousand years of the church age most have misunderstood what actually occurred when Jesus ascended into heaven (as opposed to what occurred at his resurrection from the dead on earth).

He did indeed raise from the dead, went through walls and locked doors, ate fish, walked and talked, and even felt like His former flesh to the touch--because He was flesh. But just as He could have at any time, even before He rose from the dead, prayed and brought down legions of angels--His resurrection was not the same as His ascension. They were two different and separate acts, different for a reason: because being raised from the grave is NOT the same as "going to the Father."

When Jesus said in the scriptures that "God is spirit"--no flesh is included. Flesh is of the world, created of the dust. God is not created of the dust, nor has He intended to be lower than He already is, as the world is lower. On the contrary, He is not lowered except in Christ for salvation, but rather we are to be lifted up--to be prefect "as He is perfect"--just the way He is--which "is spirit." And that is what happened at Jesus' ascension, that did not happen at His resurrection.

So..."all are raised up the last day" but all are not "going to the Father" as Jesus did.

Incidentally, in between these two [different] events is the Judgement. But back to Jesus' ascension:​

The understandable confusion that has caused most to consider these two different events as actually being one event although they were clearly two, believing that we go straight from the grave to the Father; and therefore we must surely be regenerated into a form of "glorified flesh" to live out eternity as Jesus did for a mere forty days between His resurrection and His ascension...is that the angel of the Lord said He would return "in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

Completely understandable, but wrong. Oh the angel was correct, just not fully understood. When the angel said "in like manner" both factors of His resurrection and His ascension are included. Which is the part that needs explaining, but was not, and has not been for all this time.

Why now?...Because now is the time of "the sounding of the seventh angel" of Revelation.
​

The explanation then, from two perspectives:

1) The "like manner" which the disciples of Jesus saw, was what Jesus foretold of "all who are born of the spirit." As it is written, "while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight." Unlike Jesus' resurrection in the flesh, Jesus was born of the spirit and therefore "out of their sight" just as it is with "all who are born of the spirit." It is this being born of the Spirit which makes Jesus "the firstfruits" (of the Spirit).

Thus, what the disciples saw was not actually what they saw, but what they didn't see but were told by Jesus beforehand and believed.

2) The "like manner" which the disciples DID see was what?...It was the like manner in which He would "so come" again. Which, yes, is in the form of flesh and blood...only not as it has been believed and taught, but again, as it was foretold by Jesus.

But, just as has been the case with Him foretelling about "all who are born of the spirit" of whom He is "firstfruits"...the explanation is back in the gospels foretold but not yet put together. Which would not and could not be put together until the times are fulfilled, or it would not have gone the way that it has been foretold...that is, to include the believing of a "lie", "strong delusion" and a time of "great apostacy." Which is to the gentiles like the crucifixion is to Israel. Just as it is written, "For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either."

This then, is what Jesus foretold of Him coming [again] "in like manner"--that is "in" the flesh:

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
​

Just as the Holy Spirit descended like a dove upon Jesus and remained, by the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ "the firstfruits" has come and does come to "anyone [who] hears [His] voice and opens the door."

This is how Paul came to say, "for me, to live is Christ", and why he came to announce and reveal the mystery of marriage and that the church was the "body of Christ." Which we must "take, eat", for He said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me."

"From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more." Just as it has been now for the longest time.​

No Jesus Christ didn't change going up in the ascension as you claim, no scripture exist to support your claim, gnosticism on display

It appears you don't understand that Jesus Christ maintained a tangible "Spiritual Body" of flesh and bone, that was incorruptible and eternal, could enter a room with doors being shut, could vanish out of human sight, and ate tangible earthly food

1 Corinthians 15:39-44KJV
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[ScottA]

No Jesus Christ didn't change going up in the ascension as you claim, no scripture exist to support your claim, gnosticism on display

It appears you don't understand that Jesus Christ maintained a tangible "Spiritual Body" of flesh and bone, that was incorruptible and eternal, could enter a room with doors being shut, could vanish out of human sight, and ate tangible earthly food

1 Corinthians 15:39-44KJV
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Your error (and willful addition to the scriptures) is the scriptures do not say there is also "another flesh of the spirit."

It just doesn't say that.​

On the contrary, Paul only used the various types of worldly flesh for example. But you and many make a religion out of giving glory to the flesh which God has condemned to be revealed and to die.

 

[Truth7t7]

Your error (and willful addition to the scriptures) is the scriptures do not say there is also "another flesh of the spirit."

It just doesn't say that.​

On the contrary, Paul only used the various types of worldly flesh for example. But you and many make a religion out of giving glory to the flesh which God has condemned to be revealed and to die.

Jesus Christ maintained a tangible "Spiritual Body" of flesh and bone that was incorruptible and eternal, all believers will receives like bodies at the future resurrection, at the second coming on the Last Day

 

[ScottA]

Jesus Christ maintained a tangible "Spiritual Body" of flesh and bone that was incorruptible and eternal, all believers will receives like bodies at the future resurrection, at the second coming on the Last Day

That is just you agreeing with what has been believed during these times of foretold strong delusion and great apostacy, and those who believed and taught it agree with you too.

 

[Truth7t7]

That is just you agreeing with what has been believed during these times of foretold strong delusion and great apostacy, and those who believed and taught it agree with you too.

Jesus after the resurrection in a tangible body of flesh and bone, a body that could enter a room with doors being shut, a body that could vanish out of human sight, a body that could eat earthly food, a tangible body of flesh and bone that Scott nor myself fully understands, not of this mortal world

John 20:19-20KJV
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

Luke 24:30-31 & 39KJV
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

[Enoch111]

His resurrection was not the same as His ascension.

The Bible is crystal clear. Christ's resurrection and His final ascension were separated by a period of 40 days. However, on the day of His resurrection, Christ did in fact ascend to the Father and then return to earth. He ascended with His blood and entered the heavenly Sanctuary (as noted in Hebrews). He also ascended with all the OT saints who had been "captive" in Hades until His resurrection. We are not told whether these two ascensions were separate, but it would appear to be so.

But His generally recognized bodily "ascension" is seen as His final ascension ten days before the feast of Pentecost. He ascended from the Mount of Olives, to which He will also descend at His Second Coming. (Bethany and the Mount of Olives seem to be contiguous).

 

[ScottA]

Jesus after the resurrection in a tangible body of flesh and bone, a body that could enter a room with doors being shut, a body that could vanish out of human sight, a body that could eat earthly food, a tangible body of flesh and bone that Scott nor myself fully understands, not of this mortal world

John 20:19-20KJV
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

Luke 24:30-31 & 39KJV
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

You point out what I have been saying, but you do not understand.

Jesus was raised from the dead by the power of God which was given to Him even before the cross. He raised others from the dead, some even with blood--the point is only that He held the power of God to do all things at will--all those things you listed.

But, as you also pointed out, He made a point that He did none of that as a mere spirit who was sent, which distinguished Him as being different, as being God who could manifest at His own will. Only God can do that. And yet He did not vanish out of their sight at that time. Why? And why forty days after His crucifixion? Because He had more to demonstrate, more to reveal: That He carried the marks of sin and sacrifice for the same timeframe as was portrayed in the ark, and in the desert--which was specifically the lifetime of an evil generation...which He did before going to the Father, whom is [only] spirit [and perfect].

But in that former portrayal, who was it that crossed over to the promised land that only portrayed the kingdom of heaven? That evil generation? No, but only those born of them, and the two who believed. From which Jesus preached that it is only that body that is born [again] of the spirit of God, that will enter the kingdom. And it is in this "like manner" that He Himself ascended into heaven. Which manner was not seen, for that is not the way of all who are born of the spirit. What was seen--is rather the way that He comes again, which indeed is in the flesh, which He foretold, saying, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me"...which is not Him in His old or even glorified original flesh, but rather (as it is written) in His body the church, in spirit.

But--if you do not see Him "as He is"--you will not see Him.

 

[ScottA]

The Bible is crystal clear. Christ's resurrection and His final ascension were separated by a period of 40 days. However, on the day of His resurrection, Christ did in fact ascend to the Father and then return to earth. He ascended with His blood and entered the heavenly Sanctuary (as noted in Hebrews). He also ascended with all the OT saints who had been "captive" in Hades until His resurrection. We are not told whether these two ascensions were separate, but it would appear to be so.

But His generally recognized bodily "ascension" is seen as His final ascension ten days before the feast of Pentecost. He ascended from the Mount of Olives, to which He will also descend at His Second Coming. (Bethany and the Mount of Olives seem to be contiguous).

Thank you--your facts are good!

However, although accurate, that is only the dim view of what will be face to face, which is not revealed in times, but in the twinkling of an eye. But we must be prepared to hear of heavenly things, or we will not hear. He who has an ear...

 

[jeffweeder]

Your error (and willful addition to the scriptures) is the scriptures do not say there is also "another flesh of the spirit."

It just doesn't say that.​

On the contrary, Paul only used the various types of worldly flesh for example. But you and many make a religion out of giving glory to the flesh which God has condemned to be revealed and to die.

What of Adam's flesh before he fell? It was good and dwelt with God in Paradise. We are said to inherit this when Jesus comes again.


Gen 2
7 then the Lord God formed [that is, created the body of] man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being [an individual complete in body and spirit].

Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

 

[ScottA]

What of Adam's flesh before he fell? It was good and dwelt with God in Paradise. We are said to inherit this when Jesus comes again.


Gen 2
7 then the Lord God formed [that is, created the body of] man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being [an individual complete in body and spirit].

Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Good thinking here!

I have been addressing what is not instore, but yes, there is also that which is instore.

However, in order to have any accurate knowledge of what will be, we need to eliminate what God has said He is and will eliminate...which is the old/present heavens and earth and the elements thereof: The dust shall return to the earth and be dissolved with fervent heat and with fire, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. That is the end which is written.

Then the new heavens and the new earth. But the rightful place to begin with any thoughts along these lines, is with Jesus' indication that we shall be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect--whom is spirit, and that we shall be One with Him as they are One, and that we are to be where He is. Thus far that all only speaks of the spiritual nature of God and us being One with Him/Them. But again, yes, then it is also true that the meek shall inherit the earth, etc.

Yet there is a great difference between all that God has cast out of His presence and what was and shall be. It should also be understood, that the fall and all His preparations for His perfect finish, included things that may never be again--even the flesh that we have come to know and associate even with what was in the garden before the fall. There are glimpses however in what is written of the angels of the Lord sent in the appearance of men, even eating with Abraham...and even of Jesus after His resurrection.

The mistake, however, is to think that what was seen of Jesus was the glorifying of the flesh that we might like to hang onto and defend to the death, and will. I submit rather, that what shall be, is indeed, not at all what was, but is greater by far than what we have known.

 

[Truth7t7]

You point out what I have been saying, but you do not understand.

Jesus was raised from the dead by the power of God which was given to Him even before the cross. He raised others from the dead, some even with blood--the point is only that He held the power of God to do all things at will--all those things you listed.

But, as you also pointed out, He made a point that He did none of that as a mere spirit who was sent, which distinguished Him as being different, as being God who could manifest at His own will. Only God can do that. And yet He did not vanish out of their sight at that time. Why? And why forty days after His crucifixion? Because He had more to demonstrate, more to reveal: That He carried the marks of sin and sacrifice for the same timeframe as was portrayed in the ark, and in the desert--which was specifically the lifetime of an evil generation...which He did before going to the Father, whom is [only] spirit [and perfect].

But in that former portrayal, who was it that crossed over to the promised land that only portrayed the kingdom of heaven? That evil generation? No, but only those born of them, and the two who believed. From which Jesus preached that it is only that body that is born [again] of the spirit of God, that will enter the kingdom. And it is in this "like manner" that He Himself ascended into heaven. Which manner was not seen, for that is not the way of all who are born of the spirit. What was seen--is rather the way that He comes again, which indeed is in the flesh, which He foretold, saying, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me"...which is not Him in His old or even glorified original flesh, but rather (as it is written) in His body the church, in spirit.

But--if you do not see Him "as He is"--you will not see Him.

The very same tangible body of flesh and bone that Jesus maintained while with his apostles was taken to heaven in a cloud, this very same body will return in the heavens, just as scripture teaches

You can claim your gnostic beliefs till the sun don't shine Scott, no place in scripture does it teach the body of Jesus Christ changed while going into heaven

Acts 1:9KJV
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[Davy]

The very same tangible body of flesh and bone that Jesus maintained while with his apostles was taken to heaven in a cloud, this very same body will return in the heavens, just as scripture teaches

You can claim your gnostic beliefs till the sun don't shine Scott, no place in scripture does it teach the body of Jesus Christ changed while going into heaven

WHOOPS.... you forgot that the following Scripture exists!

1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

 

[Truth7t7]

WHOOPS.... you forgot that the following Scripture exists!

1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

Whoops!

You forgot the fact that Jesus maintained a tangible, glorified, immortal, body of "Flesh and Bone" that was a "Spiritual Body"

It appears that the world's teachings of invisible spirits in ghosts, female angels with long hair and harps has your mind "imprisoned"

 

[Timtofly]

WHOOPS.... you forgot that the following Scripture exists!

1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

You are missing the point Jesus was God before He was born.

You claim Jesus only became God after the Cross and Ascension.

Adam lived in Paradise until he disobeyed God. Adam had that spiritual body and died, literally loosing that spiritual body. So there were humans in Paradise, and God can allow humans into Paradise according to His will, not your human understanding and reasoning.

Jesus was born of a virgin to be 100% human as well as 100% Lord God. That quickening Spirit is pointing out how God redeems us to Himself, not that Jesus lost His humanity. That word quickening is your hint, it was about salvation and redemption as opposed to Adam's disobedience and the removal from Paradise and a permanent incorruptible physical body. Adam did physically die that instant into dead flesh that could no longer enjoy Paradise.

 

[Timtofly]

Whoops!

You forgot the fact that Jesus maintained a tangible, glorified, immortal, body of "Flesh and Bone" that was a "Spiritual Body"

It appears that the world's teachings of invisible pirits in gobbling and ghosts, female angels with long hair and harps has your mind imprisoned

Jesus had a fully glorified body prior to the Cross. He chose not to walk around in that form. Jesus did show 3 disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration the full image of God. The Cross changed nothing about Jesus. The Cross was the Lord God doing as promised even before creation. It was already a point of fact prior to creation. Even the Lamb's book of life was there physically before creation. Sealed until the 7th Seal is opened after the Second Coming. There was a post resurrection and ascended physical body as the Lamb also before Creation, as pointed out that God already sealed the deal before creation.

 

[Davy]

You are missing the point Jesus was God before He was born.

You claim Jesus only became God after the Cross and Ascension.

Adam lived in Paradise until he disobeyed God. Adam had that spiritual body and died, literally loosing that spiritual body. So there were humans in Paradise, and God can allow humans into Paradise according to His will, not your human understanding and reasoning.

Jesus was born of a virgin to be 100% human as well as 100% Lord God. That quickening Spirit is pointing out how God redeems us to Himself, not that Jesus lost His humanity. That word quickening is your hint, it was about salvation and redemption as opposed to Adam's disobedience and the removal from Paradise and a permanent incorruptible physical body. Adam did physically die that instant into dead flesh that could no longer enjoy Paradise.

You MUST be thinking of someone else.

I have NEVER claimed Jesus only became God after His crucifixion and ascension.

The man Adam was a soul God made and placed in... a flesh shell. The flesh shell, like Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 reveals, is made up of earthly matter, NOT spirit. And when the flesh dies, it goes BACK to earthly matter, a flesh body is NOT ETERNAL.

Within Adam and Eve's flesh, dwelt the "law of sin". Before Satan's tempting, they just hadn't sinned... yet. And it was Eve's FLESH desires and lusts that made her sin, along with Adam.

So the fabrication that Adam and Eve dwelt in the perfection of flesh prior to sinning is just another stupid doctrine of OCCULTISTS who wrongly believe in perfection of the FLESH!

Here's the OCCULTISTS theory of evolution, from which Darwin actually got part of his theory from:

Occult theory of evoution - water produces living organisms that evolve into mineral and plant life, then aquatic life, then land creatures and animals, then humans. That is where Darwinism evolution theory stops, with man being the highest evolution in the chain. But the Occultists go further, the LAST state of evolution is from a man to a god! That... is what Darwin evolution theory is secretly 'suggesting' to your mind, indirectly, when teaching evolution theory.

Satan is the father of evolution theory.

The actual fossil evidence shows a sudden springing forth of life forms, and then a sudden destruction, and then a sudden springing forth of new life. In other words, the fossil record supports the idea of sudden creation.

 

[Davy]

Jesus had a fully glorified body prior to the Cross. He chose not to walk around in that form. Jesus did show 3 disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration the full image of God. The Cross changed nothing about Jesus. The Cross was the Lord God doing as promised even before creation. It was already a point of fact prior to creation. Even the Lamb's book of life was there physically before creation. Sealed until the 7th Seal is opened after the Second Coming. There was a post resurrection and ascended physical body as the Lamb also before Creation, as pointed out that God already sealed the deal before creation.

You never addressed the matter of what 'kind of body' was Lord Jesus in BEFORE He was born through woman's womb.

I well know Lord Jesus existed from ETERNITY. But in what KIND of body before being born through Mary?

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus had a fully glorified body prior to the Cross. He chose not to walk around in that form. Jesus did show 3 disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration the full image of God. The Cross changed nothing about Jesus. The Cross was the Lord God doing as promised even before creation. It was already a point of fact prior to creation. Even the Lamb's book of life was there physically before creation. Sealed until the 7th Seal is opened after the Second Coming. There was a post resurrection and ascended physical body as the Lamb also before Creation, as pointed out that God already sealed the deal before creation.

Your claim is "False"!

Jesus maintained a "Human Body" of flesh, bone, and "Blood" that literally died a physical death on Calvary before the resurrection

Jesus was glorified in a resurrected immortal body of flesh and bone "After The Resurrection", being the first fruit of the resurrection

Your theology and eschatology is so out in left field, I don't take your responses seriously

1 Corinthians 15:22-23KJV
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[ScottA]

The very same tangible body of flesh and bone that Jesus maintained while with his apostles was taken to heaven in a cloud, this very same body will return in the heavens, just as scripture teaches

You can claim your gnostic beliefs till the sun don't shine Scott, no place in scripture does it teach the body of Jesus Christ changed while going into heaven

Acts 1:9KJV
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Again, you do not understand. Nor have you even accused me correctly referring to "gnostic beliefs" which I do not share.

And you are also wrong about the scriptures not teaching "that the body of Jesus Christ changed while going into heaven." The scriptures do indeed teach that Jesus gave His body to the church before going to the Father whom is spirit. You are just not doing the math.

I also explained how the scriptures show Jesus returns, as apposed to how He enters heaven: That it is just as He said, that He had give His body to the church, and then explained how, saying, "'Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me'...which is not Him in His old or even glorified original flesh, but rather (as it is written) in His body the church, in spirit."

But you have misunderstood the scriptures to mean that He enters heaven the same way that He returns--but that is not what they said. They only said in what manner He would return--not how.

Believe it or not.