Jesus came to call sinners to repentance

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
As I scripturally proved in my earlier post, repentance is to turn from trying to be acceptable to God by our own "works".

Here is the verse you quoted:

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So you have never willfully sinned but have only made "honest mistakes"? This cannot be true. You should be more honest with yourself.

The verse above is talking about the sin that leads to death. That sin occurs when we add our own "works" to faith. This is the only sin that will cause a believer to lose their salvation.

1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death (ONLY ONE SIN): I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Understand, all sins lead to death, and you can repent, but there's a sin unto death you cannot repent.

All the other sins that we commit are "not unto death". Those sins will receive the chastisement of Christ until they are removed.

Joe

Paul says in Romans 6: 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let's go a little further in 1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Keep the Commandments of God always and if a sinful situation happens repent. Everyman walk is between themselves and God, but if you willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. At this point, only the Lord have the power to forgive an have compassion and or mercy, if he choose to. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10: 26, 27)

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
Yes, Paul is teaching that you have to earn your salvation by works. Let's take at an example when person sit back and do nothing.

A converted believer will not "sit back and do nothing" because the Holy Spirit "worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Phi 2:13).

Concerning the parable you quoted, the man who was only given one talent represents an unconverted believer. They are still carnally minded and because of such, they see Christ as a "hard man" who torments his enemies in literal fire for all eternity. Because they "see" Christ this way, they are afraid of Him. As for burying the one talent in the earth, this represents that they used the gift that the Lord gave them in a carnal way (buried in the earth). The carnal way will not produce the spiritual fruit that Christ requires of His children.

In other words, the "talents" in the parable do not represent "works" - they represent the gifts of the Spirit that will cause us to produce spiritual fruit (love, joy, longsuffering, etc.). This is what Christ wants in return for the gifts He gives us and is what the parable is actually teaching.

You said:
Like Paul says in Gal 6: Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with.

Just like the man in the parable, you, too, see God as a "hard man".

As for the verse you quoted: Gal 6: Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

When a believer has been converted, the Spirit within them will cause them to "walk by the Spirit". Unconverted believers can only walk by the flesh (carnal nature). This is what Paul meant when he said in Gal 6:2 concerning "ye who are spiritual". Converted believers who walk by the Spirit do not sow to the flesh - they sow to the Spirit BECAUSE the Spirit governs them to "will and do of His good pleasure". A converted believer does not walk by the Spirit because of their supposed "free will" ability to decide to do so. Only God the Father has a "free will" to do as He pleases - mankind does not.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Because you do not believe these verses above, you have accepted the lie that you must contribute your own "works" and make your own decisions so that you can earn your salvation. This is what the Law teaches and it was given to us to prove that the "crooked way" does not work and cannot save us. The truth you should be believing is that Christ is the one who causes us to "will and do of His good pleasure". He is the one who causes us to no longer sow to the flesh but to the Spirit.

You said:
The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it.

This is true except that you believe that our "actions" come from our supposed "free will" ability to decide to do them. Scripture, however, contradicts this belief. Read those three verses again which I quoted above and add this verse to them:

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

If a person has faith (which is one of the "talents") and has been converted, they will "walk by the Spirit" because the Spirit governs them. And because the Spirit governs their actions, the believer will to do "good works" because that is what they want to do. Christ gives them their "will" to do their "good works". When they do their "good works", this is the outward evidence that they are converted and are walking by the Spirit. This concept is what James taught.

Joe

Keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works.

Paul says in (1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life.

 

[FaithWillDo]

No.

The only thing is new is Jesus sacrificing himself of the sins of the world. Let's go into Hebrews 10: (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Let's go into the old Testament and see what happens when a person sins in ignorant. Let's go into Leviticus 4: 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: 3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering. 4 And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. Paul says in Hebrews 10: (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God;

Dear bro.tan,
Sinning in ignorance is not the same thing as making an honest mistake. When a person sins in ignorance, they do not know that they have sinned. When a person makes a mistake, they know it. If you are able to keep the Law perfectly as Christ did, you are the only person who has.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Because Christ is the only one who is without sin, He is the only one who has a right to judge mankind:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Also, Christ "fulfilled" the Old Covenant of Law at the cross which required a blood sacrifice to cover sins.

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

The remaining portion of the law (the law of love) is also fulfilled by Christ after a believer is converted and governed by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Phil 2:13 Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Christ is the one who fulfills 100% the Law. We have no "works" to perform because Christ performs them all. This is what it means to enter into the "rest" of Christ.

When a person believes that their salvation is dependent upon their own "works", they are saying that they have NO FAITH in the sacrifice of Christ to cover their sins and for Him to fulfill the law of love within them. When a believer falls back to their own "works", they have fallen from grace. That is the only sin that will cause a believer to lose their salvation.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the foundational teaching of Satan's "another gospel". When a believer becomes deceived by Satan's false gospel, they believe that they must contribute their own "works" to be saved. By doing so, they are doing what this scripture warns against:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift (the Early Rain), and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Peter teaches this same truth below:

2Pet 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

The symbols "vomit" and "mire" represent a person's "works".

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
Sinning in ignorance is not the same thing as making an honest mistake. When a person sins in ignorance, they do not know that they have sinned. When a person makes a mistake, they know it. If you are able to keep the Law perfectly as Christ did, you are the only person who has.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Because Christ is the only one who is without sin, He is the only one who has a right to judge mankind:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Also, Christ "fulfilled" the Old Covenant of Law at the cross which required a blood sacrifice to cover sins.

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

The remaining portion of the law (the law of love) is also fulfilled by Christ after a believer is converted and governed by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Phil 2:13 Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Christ is the one who fulfills 100% the Law. We have no "works" to perform because Christ performs them all. This is what it means to enter into the "rest" of Christ.

Paul says in (1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life.

When a person believes that their salvation is dependent upon their own "works", they are saying that they have NO FAITH in the sacrifice of Christ to cover their sins and for Him to fulfill the law of love within them. When a believer falls back to their own "works", they have fallen from grace. That is the only sin that will cause a believer to lose their salvation.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the foundational teaching of Satan's "another gospel". When a believer becomes deceived by Satan's false gospel, they believe that they must contribute their own "works" to be saved. By doing so, they are doing what this scripture warns against:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift (the Early Rain), and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Peter teaches this same truth below:

2Pet 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

The symbols "vomit" and "mire" represent a person's "works".

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Paul says in (1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Dear bro.tan,
Yes, we are to do good works but those good works are the product of Christ's work which He does within us. He is the one who causes converted believers to "will" and do of His good pleasure.

As James says, good works are the evidence that Christ is governing us from within. However, if a believer thinks that they must do good works to maintain their salvation, it is already too late for them - they have fallen from grace and are trying to earn their salvation by their own works. This is how the Old Covenant of Law operates and not the New Covenant. Under the New Covenant, Christ does 100% of the works.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the foundational false teaching of Satan's "another gospel" which causes all called out believers (not converted) to fall from grace. Once a believer has fallen away, they cannot be renewed by repentance (Heb 6:4-6). Christ must come to them a second time with the Latter Rain to restore their salvation. For the Elect, Christ will "come again" to them but for the believers who are not chosen, Christ will not come a second time to them before they die. When Christ comes a second time to an Elect believer, this is when Kingdom of Heaven (Christ) comes to them. The second coming event must happen within the lifetime of a person or they will die in their sins.

Joshua and Caleb are "types" for the Elect. They are the ones who lived through the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness to cross the Jordan River (type for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Latter Rain) into the Promised Land (salvation) . The other Israelites who died in the wilderness are types for the called out but not chosen believers.

Joe

 

[Karl Peters]

Luke 5
[29] And Levi made him [Jesus] a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans [tax collectors] and of others that sat down with them.
[30] But their scribes and Pharisees [religious leaders] murmured against his [Jesus'] disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?
[31] And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
[32] I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

There is something that we miss in the Bible and it causes us to miss the correct understanding. That something it that the Lord is there to ask questions of and to be heard from. And if you do ask Him, who is supposed to be our Teacher, you tend find that He speaks in parables and sayings. So then you start looking for the parable and saying in what He is saying, and thus start talking to more about the parable for a better understanding!

We read Ps 78:2, did we not?
I will open my mouth in a parable;
I will utter dark sayings of old,

Therefore Luke 5 is a parable or dark saying, right

Did not Jesus come to save all men? It is written that all have sinned a fallen short, right? So Jesus is telling the scribes and Pharisees (religious leaders) they need to repent, right? And that is true for everyone else too, right? And the how often do even Christian to the very things they don't want, eg. are sinning? We want to do the right thing, correct? But only the Lord knows the right thing to do, correct? So we want to seek the Lord and listen to Him before we do anything, correct? Yet do we only do and say what God tells us, like Jesus Christ did? No we don't! Maybe we do some of the things, but frankly we are not listening to Him most of the day! So we are sinners needing to repent and ask the Lord for forgiveness, daily.

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

In Bible story recorded in Luke 5 - Jesus was telling the "scribes and Pharisees [religious leaders]" that they needed to realize they were sinners in need of Him, so they needed to repent! Indeed, to this day religious leaders (those leaning on their own understanding of God instead of listening to Him) tend to think that they have not sinned and thus are making Him a liar! So they don't realize that they need to listen to Him, like everyone does. So they think everyone else (not them) are the sinners and so they don't turn to Him to listen to Him, but make judgement about others that are not from Him. Did not even Jesus tell Isaiah to speak to them that way?

Is 6:9,10 He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive;
Keep on looking, but do not understand.’
“Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
Their ears dull,
And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And return and be healed.”

Yet they search the Scriptures, failing to realize that they were written under that instruction to "Render the hearts of this people insensitive" (make them "religious" - which means leaning on their own understanding of God), as opposed to being a people who turn to the Lord for instruction. It was that way until the instruction went out from above to preach the Word of God - meaning that our sins are forgiven and the sacrifice made, so we too can enter into a relationship with God through Jesus Christ who is the living Word of God. That does mean we don't sin. Indeed there is a spiritual principle to this day that sin is in us! Yet that is offset by because we can repent everyday and recieve the forgiveness that has already been set forth!

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
Yes, we are to do good works but those good works are the product of Christ's work which He does within us. He is the one who causes converted believers to "will" and do of His good pleasure.

As James says, good works are the evidence that Christ is governing us from within. However, if a believer thinks that they must do good works to maintain their salvation, it is already too late for them - they have fallen from grace and are trying to earn their salvation by their own works. This is how the Old Covenant of Law operates and not the New Covenant. Under the New Covenant, Christ does 100% of the works.

Let's see if Paul see it that way in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible.

Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the foundational false teaching of Satan's "another gospel" which causes all called out believers (not converted) to fall from grace. Once a believer has fallen away, they cannot be renewed by repentance (Heb 6:4-6). Christ must come to them a second time with the Latter Rain to restore their salvation. For the Elect, Christ will "come again" to them but for the believers who are not chosen, Christ will not come a second time to them before they die. When Christ comes a second time to an Elect believer, this is when Kingdom of Heaven (Christ) comes to them. The second coming event must happen within the lifetime of a person or they will die in their sins.

Joshua and Caleb are "types" for the Elect. They are the ones who lived through the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness to cross the Jordan River (type for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Latter Rain) into the Promised Land (salvation) . The other Israelites who died in the wilderness are types for the called out but not chosen believers.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Let's see if Paul see it that way in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible.

Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.

Dear bro.tan,

Paul says that he runs his race with certainty:

1Cor 9:26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.

Paul never doubted his own Elect status (receiving the crown). And because Paul was one of the Elect, Paul was driven by Christ from "within" himself to keep his flesh under subjection.

This happened because Christ was causing Paul to "will" and do of Christ's good pleasure.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Paul had no choice in the matter.

And like all the Elect, Paul was a bondservant of Christ:

Tit 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

2Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Jude 1:1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,...

Jam 1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ...

Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a bondservant of Christ, greets you

Here is what you are not considering when coming to your understanding:

Scripture is written "here a little, and there a little" (Isa 28:9-10). Scripture also says that the "sum" of the Word is truth (Psa 119:160).

Here are the other scriptures which you must combine with what Paul said in 1Cor 9:26-27:

John 10:28 “And I give them life during the ages, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Christ "gives" the Elect "life during the ages". They do not have to earn it because Christ does all the work from "within" them. And since Christ does all the work, Christ says that no one can snatch them out of His hand (not even the Elect person).

The Elect were chosen for life during the ages (the inheritance) from the foundation of the world. They are His workmanship.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Christ accomplishes the Elect's salvation by working all things after the counsel of His own "will". Christ's spiritual work within Paul is the reason why Paul keeps his flesh under subjection. And because no one can snatch Paul out of Christ's hands, Christ will see to it that Paul does not fail. Paul's salvation is a certainty.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

As for the "many" who are called but not chosen, Christ will not do all the necessary work within them for their salvation. They will be castaways and will fall from grace. And like Paul, they, too, have no choice in the matter. Christ is the Savior and no one is saved until Christ saves them. In this age, Christ is only saving the Elect. In the final age, Christ will save the rest of mankind.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Let's see if Paul see it that way in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible.

Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.

Dear bro.tan,
To confirm what I have been stating to you, I wanted to share a prophecy that my wife received concerning me and her. She received it about 2 1/2 years after we were both converted in 2005.

Here is the prophecy she received:

I am with you. I hear your prayers. You will know my Word when you are able to receive it. I am preparing you for my work. You have much to learn about yourself. You will show others my way. I will prepare you for the work I give you. I am doing my work in you. I am the Lord.

As the prophecy says, Christ is "preparing" me to do His work by doing His work in me. He is the one who causes me to "will" and do of His good pleasure. I have no choice in the matter but to do the works because He has changed me from within. That is the only way a person can follow His commandments of loving God and loving our neighbor. Christ does His works through us.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
To confirm what I have been stating to you, I wanted to share a prophecy that my wife received concerning me and her. She received it about 2 1/2 years after we were both converted in 2005.

Here is the prophecy she received:

I am with you. I hear your prayers. You will know my Word when you are able to receive it. I am preparing you for my work. You have much to learn about yourself. You will show others my way. I will prepare you for the work I give you. I am doing my work in you. I am the Lord.

As the prophecy says, Christ is "preparing" me to do His work by doing His work in me. He is the one who causes me to "will" and do of His good pleasure. I have no choice in the matter but to do the works because He has changed me from within. That is the only way a person can follow His commandments of loving God and loving our neighbor. Christ does His works through us.

Joe

I understand, you believe you have a calling from God, now that calling is between you and God, the same way Paul had a calling. What you fell to understand is that, you still have to keep the Commandments, statues and Judgments, fruits of the spirits and maintain good works. Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

Every Prophet, apostle, even Jesus had a calling. But they all kept the two greatest Commandments.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,

Paul says that he runs his race with certainty:

1Cor 9:26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.

Paul never doubted his own Elect status (receiving the crown). And because Paul was one of the Elect, Paul was driven by Christ from "within" himself to keep his flesh under subjection.

This happened because Christ was causing Paul to "will" and do of Christ's good pleasure.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Paul had no choice in the matter.

That's not true, you always have a choice in the matter, and that's what you need to understand. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deu 30: 15-19)

And like all the Elect, Paul was a bondservant of Christ:

Tit 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

2Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Jude 1:1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,...

Jam 1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ...

Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a bondservant of Christ, greets you

Here is what you are not considering when coming to your understanding:

Scripture is written "here a little, and there a little" (Isa 28:9-10). Scripture also says that the "sum" of the Word is truth (Psa 119:160).

Here are the other scriptures which you must combine with what Paul said in 1Cor 9:26-27:

John 10:28 “And I give them life during the ages, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Christ "gives" the Elect "life during the ages". They do not have to earn it because Christ does all the work from "within" them. And since Christ does all the work, Christ says that no one can snatch them out of His hand (not even the Elect person).

The Elect were chosen for life during the ages (the inheritance) from the foundation of the world. They are His workmanship.

No! The Elect are the saints. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). This is how you become a Elect or Saint.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Christ accomplishes the Elect's salvation by working all things after the counsel of His own "will". Christ's spiritual work within Paul is the reason why Paul keeps his flesh under subjection. And because no one can snatch Paul out of Christ's hands, Christ will see to it that Paul does not fail. Paul's salvation is a certainty.

No! Paul understand the fear of God. Paul says in Hebrew 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Paul understand this fear, I'm not sure you do.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

As for the "many" who are called but not chosen, Christ will not do all the necessary work within them for their salvation. They will be castaways and will fall from grace. And like Paul, they, too, have no choice in the matter. Christ is the Savior and no one is saved until Christ saves them. In this age, Christ is only saving the Elect. In the final age, Christ will save the rest of mankind.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

That's not true, you always have a choice in the matter, and that's what you need to understand. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deu 30: 15-19)


No! The Elect are the saints. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). This is how you become a Elect or Saint.


No! Paul understand the fear of God. Paul says in Hebrew 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Paul understand this fear, I'm not sure you do.

Dear bro.tan,
I have shown you the scriptures about "works" vs. faith and you still believe that you must contribute your own works to earn your salvation. You are allowing your belief in "free will" to govern your understanding of scripture. The truth is only God the Father has a "free will". Mankind does not and never will.

The Man of Sin is not a person who appears at the end of the age. The Man of Sin is a spiritual symbol which represents a believer with a worsen carnal nature. The Old Man becomes a Man of Sin after the spirit of anti-Christ enters a called out believer and causes them to accept and follow "another gospel". Satan's gospel teaches a salvation by works and its foundation is the belief that mankind has a "free will". For that reason, Paul said that the Man of Sin sits in God's temple (a believer) and claims to be God.

The churches the Apostles started in the 1st century all became apostate shortly after their deaths. They all follow another Jesus and another gospel and have another spirit (spirit of anti-Christ) governing them. In this worsen spiritual state, a believer cannot be renewed by repentance. Their only hope is for Christ to "come again" and pour out the Latter Rain upon them. With the Latter Rain, the believer is "born again" and their spiritual blindness is healed. After it is healed, this scripture will be fulfilled:

Mat 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

The Abomination of Desolation which the believer "sees" occurred within themselves when the spirit of anti-Christ entered them. Once they "see" the A of D, judgment will come and remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (worsened carnal nature). After they are removed, the believer will then become a spiritual man and will be governed by the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit governing them, the believer can rest from their works because they have entered into the rest of Christ. Christ will then cause the believer to "will" and do of His good pleasure and this will cause the believer to keep the commandments of God. Those commandments are summed up by loving God and loving our neighbor. There is nothing more.

As for the verse you quoted:

Deu 26:17 “Today you have proclaimed the LORD to be your God, and that you will walk in His ways and keep His statutes, His commandments, and His judgments, and that you will obey His voice.

This statement is for the Nation of Israel when the Lord gave the Israelites the Old Covenant of Law to follow. But if a person is "in Christ" and is under the New Covenant, they are no longer under the Old Covenant of Law.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Why is this true? It is true because Christ fulfilled the sacrificial ordinances of the Law at the cross and He fulfills the remainder of the Law by causing a converted believer to love God and love His neighbor. Under the New Covenant, we rest from our labors because Christ does all the work.

For believers who persist in trying to follow the law by their own works, Christ will reject them upon their resurrection. At that time, Christ will say to them "I never knew you" (Mat 7:23). And because the believer remains under the Law, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire to be judged by the Law. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the faith they need to come under the New Covenant of Grace through Faith:

Mat 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

After they are "born again", the new child of God will be gathered to heaven just as the Elect were gathered to heaven in this age. Justice will then be served by the destruction of the old vessel (marred spirit):

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Have you ever read this scripture below? It is quite profound.

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding; 7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk uprightly; 8 He guards the paths of justice, And preserves the way of His saints. 9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice, Equity and every good path. 10 When wisdom enters your heart, And knowledge is pleasant to your soul, 11 Discretion will preserve you; Understanding will keep you, 12 To deliver you from the way of evil, From the man who speaks perverse things, 13 From those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness; 14 Who rejoice in doing evil, And delight in the perversity of the wicked; 15 Whose ways are crooked, And who are devious in their paths; 16 To deliver you from the immoral woman, From the seductress who flatters with her words, 17 Who forsakes the companion of her youth, And forgets the covenant of her God. 18 For her house leads down to death, And her paths to the dead; 19 None who go to her return, Nor do they regain the paths of life—

Knowledge and understanding come from Christ. He gives it only to the new child of God who "walks uprightly". The child of God follows the "good path" (salvation by faith) whereas mankind cannot.

For those who "leave the path of righteousness", their ways are "crooked" because they are trying to follow the law by their own efforts. The "immoral woman" is the Great Harlot who represents a fallen away believer's worsened carnal nature. This worsened carnal nature flatters the believer with "her words" which are pleasing. However, her words teach "works" and lead the believer down to death. The scripture ends by saying that "none who go to her return, nor do they regain the paths of life". For that reason, the old vessel (all mankind) is condemned already (John 3:18) and will be destroyed by Christ's judgment. Only the newly born children of God (the new vessel) will receive life in the Kingdom of Heaven.

If you can't receive what I have shown you about works vs. faith, I don't believe presenting you with additional scriptures will be of any benefit to you. With that said, it is probably a good time to end our discussion. I will accept the Lord's "will" in this matter.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
I have shown you the scriptures about "works" vs. faith and you still believe that you must contribute your own works to earn your salvation. You are allowing your belief in "free will" to govern your understanding of scripture. The truth is only God the Father has a "free will". Mankind does not and never will.

I agree with Paul when he says ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

The Man of Sin is not a person who appears at the end of the age. The Man of Sin is a spiritual symbol which represents a believer with a worsen carnal nature. The Old Man becomes a Man of Sin after the spirit of anti-Christ enters a called out believer and causes them to accept and follow "another gospel". Satan's gospel teaches a salvation by works and its foundation is the belief that mankind has a "free will". For that reason, Paul said that the Man of Sin sits in God's temple (a believer) and claims to be God.

The churches the Apostles started in the 1st century all became apostate shortly after their deaths. They all follow another Jesus and another gospel and have another spirit (spirit of anti-Christ) governing them. In this worsen spiritual state, a believer cannot be renewed by repentance. Their only hope is for Christ to "come again" and pour out the Latter Rain upon them. With the Latter Rain, the believer is "born again" and their spiritual blindness is healed. After it is healed, this scripture will be fulfilled:

According to the Bible the church is God's people who are Israelites. Paul says in Romans 9: 1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Paul says in Romans 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). (Matthew 7:13, 14) Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith.

As for the verse you quoted:

Deu 26:17 “Today you have proclaimed the LORD to be your God, and that you will walk in His ways and keep His statutes, His commandments, and His judgments, and that you will obey His voice.

This statement is for the Nation of Israel when the Lord gave the Israelites the Old Covenant of Law to follow. But if a person is "in Christ" and is under the New Covenant, they are no longer under the Old Covenant of Law.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Why is this true? It is true because Christ fulfilled the sacrificial ordinances of the Law at the cross and He fulfills the remainder of the Law by causing a converted believer to love God and love His neighbor. Under the New Covenant, we rest from our labors because Christ does all the work.

I agree with the sacrificial ordinances laws, but not the royal laws (Commandments). Jesus says in Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For believers who persist in trying to follow the law by their own works, Christ will reject them upon their resurrection. At that time, Christ will say to them "I never knew you" (Mat 7:23). And because the believer remains under the Law, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire to be judged by the Law. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the faith they need to come under the New Covenant of Grace through Faith:

That's a lie, because the book says in (1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

After they are "born again", the new child of God will be gathered to heaven just as the Elect were gathered to heaven in this age. Justice will then be served by the destruction of the old vessel (marred spirit):

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Have you ever read this scripture below? It is quite profound.Knowledge and understanding come from Christ. He gives it only to the new child of God who "walks uprightly". The child of God follows the "good path" (salvation by faith) whereas mankind cannot.

For those who "leave the path of righteousness", their ways are "crooked" because they are trying to follow the law by their own efforts. The "immoral woman" is the Great Harlot who represents a fallen away believer's worsened carnal nature. This worsened carnal nature flatters the believer with "her words" which are pleasing. However, her words teach "works" and lead the believer down to death. The scripture ends by saying that "none who go to her return, nor do they regain the paths of life". For that reason, the old vessel (all mankind) is condemned already (John 3:18) and will be destroyed by Christ's judgment. Only the newly born children of God (the new vessel) will receive life in the Kingdom of Heaven.

If you can't receive what I have shown you about works vs. faith, I don't believe presenting you with additional scriptures will be of any benefit to you. With that said, it is probably a good time to end our discussion. I will accept the Lord's "will" in this matter.

Joe

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

 

[FaithWillDo]

I agree with Paul when he says ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

According to the Bible the church is God's people who are Israelites. Paul says in Romans 9: 1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Paul says in Romans 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). (Matthew 7:13, 14) Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

I agree with the sacrificial ordinances laws, but not the royal laws (Commandments). Jesus says in Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


That's a lie, because the book says in (1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

Dear bro.tan,
You are not rightly dividing the Word by the Old and New Covenants. You are making the New Covenant just like the Old Covenant (based on man's works). When a believer adds their own works to faith, they will fall from grace:

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

When a believer tries to follow the Law, even on just one point like circumcision, they become a debtor to keeping the whole Law and have fallen from grace.

In your last post, you quoted where Christ said He came to fulfill the Law. Christ did not come to just fulfill a portion of the Law. He came to fulfill 100% of it. He satisfied the sacrificial law at the cross and the fulfills the remainder (loving God and our neighbor) from within a converted believer by causing them to "will and to do of his good pleasure".

Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

You omitted verse 13 in your post because it contradicts your belief in your own works.

I just posted a response to another thread which also deals with repentance from works vs. faith. It is entitled "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me". It is in the Bible Study Forum if you care to comment.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
You are not rightly dividing the Word by the Old and New Covenants. You are making the New Covenant just like the Old Covenant (based on man's works). When a believer adds their own works to faith, they will fall from grace:

Yes I am, I'm pretty good at it. You are adding your believe to the word of God. A lot scriptures and verses are clear and clean to understand. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

When a believer tries to follow the Law, even on just one point like circumcision, they become a debtor to keeping the whole Law and have fallen from grace.

That law in Gal 5: 2 is not talking about the Commandments laws, common sense should tell you that when you read this "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins).


Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

In you last post, you quoted where Christ said He came to fulfill the Law. Christ did not come to just fulfill a portion of the Law. He came to fulfill 100% of it. He satisfied the sacrificial law at the cross and the fulfills the remainder (loving God and our neighbor) from within a converted believer by causing them to "will and to do of his good pleasure".

Jesus did not come to fulfill 100% he told us this in Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Some people are taught not to think when reading the Bible, because there no way when you look at these verses you should think Jesus fulfill 100 %. Jesus says Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Let's go back to grade school and ask a question or two. Is heaven and earth still here? Answer yes! Then all is not fulfill and the royal laws (Commandments) still good.

Let's go and take a look at the reason why you don't understand whats going here. Jesus says in (Luke 24 25 Then he said unto them, O fool, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 44 And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Now the prophets had spoke of many things that Jesus was to do when He came. Jesus makes it clear that all things written about Him in the Old Testament must be fulfilled. Knowing that all things must be fulfilled by Jesus, as long as heaven and earth is still here, tells us that the law (Commandments) are still here as well and must be kept. We have to understand that all things are not fulfilled because Jesus ministry was cut off, which will continue at his second coming. Your church should be teaching you this and you should also know the things Jesus have to do when he comes back. If you knew these things then we would be on the same page, we would be as one in the mind.

Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

You omitted verse 13 in your post because it contradicts your belief in your own works.

We are not robots, just because God work in us to do his will, it doesn't mean we will all do it. You have a lot of leaning to do. Theres example in the Bible concerning this, heres one in Romans 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 21 because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. You should read from 18-32 on your own. There another example in Old Testament when a prophet was told by God and didn't do.

I just posted a response to another thread which also deals with repentance from works vs. faith. It is entitled "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me". It is in the Bible Study Forum if you care to comment.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes I am, I'm pretty good at it.

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct.

I have never said that we do not keep the moral laws of conduct. However, scripture clearly says that Christ is the one who keeps them for us. This is the spiritual work of Christ that He does within a converted believer. Christ is the one who causes a converted believer to "will and to do of His GOOD pleasure". That is why Christ said that He came to fulfill the Law. Mankind cannot keep the law; only Christ has that ability. And because He loves us, He will cause us to keep the commandments.

The Old Covenant is man's attempt to keep the Law. Under the New Covenant, Christ is the one who keeps the law through us.

You said:
Jesus did not come to fulfill 100% he told us this in Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ came to fulfill 100% of the Law. He fulfilled the blood sacrifice requirements of the Old Covenant at the cross. And now under the New Covenant, Christ is in the process of fulfilling the remainder of the law by doing it from within mankind. After Christ's spiritual work is done, all mankind will be converted into a child of God. The law will then pass away because it has been completely fulfilled. Christ will then deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to His Father and God will then be "all in all" (1Cor 15:20-28).

As for the scripture you quoted, your understanding of it is carnal and incorrect. When a believer is converted, their heaven and earth will pass away and be replaced with a new heaven and a new earth.

The old earth is a symbol for mankind's carnal nature. The old heaven is a symbol for mankind's carnal mind. They will both be destroyed by Christ's judgment (2Peter chapter 3). Once Christ has destroyed them, the believer will be converted. They will then have a new heaven (mind of Christ) and a new earth (spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit) which will guide all their beliefs and actions.

Being converted from a child of the devil (mankind) into a child of God is the only way we can keep the commandments of God. We are able to do so because Christ keeps them for us. This is what it means to enter into the "rest" of Christ. We rest from our labors of trying to keep the law (Old Covenant) because Christ keeps them for us from "within" (New Covenant). The physical keeping of the Sabbath Day is commanded under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, Christ fulfills that law within us when we enter into His "rest" and we cease from our works. At that point, it is no longer necessary to physically keep the Sabbath Day law. If we do so, we are saying that we have not yet rested from our works and because of such, we remain under the Old Covenant of Law. And because we remain under the Law, the Law will condemn us upon our resurrection from the grave. Christ will then say "I never knew you".

You said:
We are not robots, just because God works in us to do his will, it doesn't mean we will all do it.

You are wrong. It does mean that we will all do it. You cannot stay the hand of God.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

No one has a "free will" ability to do anything differently from what God wills for us to do. Only God the Father has a "free will". Mankind does not.

Where is your faith to believe these verses:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

The churches of the world (all 2,000 denominations/sects) are all apostate. No one in those churches is converted. They are all still carnal and under the law. They remain under the Law because Christ is not yet causing them to "will and do of His good pleasure". In other words, Christ has not yet made them into a new vessel. They are not converted. The apostate church is still behaving and believing as the old vessel (carnal mankind) does.

The old vessel prefers "religion" (Old Covenant, Old Wine) over faith alone (New Covenant, New Wine).

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, the old is better.

The apostate church believes that they have a "free will" ability from which they can choose or not choose to follow the ways of God. This is a false belief which comes from Satan and is the crooked way. However, for the apostate believers who are also "chosen", Christ will come to them a second time and pour out the Latter Rain. This will give the apostate believer a new birth. The new birth will then be immediately followed by Christ's judgment which will destroy their old heaven and earth. Only then will the believer be able to keep the commandments of God. They do so only because Christ causes them to "will and do of His good pleasure".

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct.

I have never said that we do not keep the moral laws of conduct. However, scripture clearly says that Christ is the one who keeps them for us. This is the spiritual work of Christ that He does within a converted believer. Christ is the one who causes a converted believer to "will and to do of His GOOD pleasure". That is why Christ said that He came to fulfill the Law. Mankind cannot keep the law; only Christ has that ability. And because He loves us, He will cause us to keep the commandments.

The Old Covenant is man's attempt to keep the Law. Under the New Covenant, Christ is the one who keeps the law through us.

There no place in the word of God that will tell you that. Christ is not the one who keeps the law through us, you have to keep the law, you.... not Christ. Jesus did his part, now you have to do yours. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. (2 John 1: 5, 6)....See Exodus 20: 1-17

You said:
Jesus did not come to fulfill 100% he told us this in Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ came to fulfill 100% of the Law. He fulfilled the blood sacrifice requirements of the Old Covenant at the cross. And now under the New Covenant, Christ is in the process of fulfilling the remainder of the law by doing it from within mankind. After Christ's spiritual work is done, all mankind will be converted into a child of God. The law will then pass away because it has been completely fulfilled. Christ will then deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to His Father and God will then be "all in all" (1Cor 15:20-28).

That's a lie, because the prophet Daniel foretold that Jesus time would be cut off. Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).
You seem to believe what people tell you vs what the Bible is saying. Stop teaching the Bible in the mighty name of Jesus until you learn!!

Being converted from a child of the devil (mankind) into a child of God is the only way we can keep the commandments of God. We are able to do so because Christ keeps them for us. This is what it means to enter into the "rest" of Christ. We rest from our labors of trying to keep the law (Old Covenant) because Christ keeps them for us from "within" (New Covenant). The physical keeping of the Sabbath Day is commanded under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, Christ fulfills that law within us when we enter into His "rest" and we cease from our works. At that point, it is no longer necessary to physically keep the Sabbath Day law. If we do so, we are saying that we have not yet rested from our works and because of such, we remain under the Old Covenant of Law. And because we remain under the Law, the Law will condemn us upon our resurrection from the grave. Christ will then say "I never knew you".

Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

You said:
We are not robots, just because God works in us to do his will, it doesn't mean we will all do it.

You are wrong. It does mean that we will all do it. You cannot stay the hand of God.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

No one has a "free will" ability to do anything differently from what God wills for us to do. Only God the Father has a "free will". Mankind does not.

Where is your faith to believe these verses:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

The churches of the world (all 2,000 denominations/sects) are all apostate. No one in those churches is converted. They are all still carnal and under the law. They remain under the Law because Christ is not yet causing them to "will and do of His good pleasure". In other words, Christ has not yet made them into a new vessel. They are not converted. The apostate church is still behaving and believing as the old vessel (carnal mankind) does.

The old vessel prefers "religion" (Old Covenant, Old Wine) over faith alone (New Covenant, New Wine).

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, the old is better.

The apostate church believes that they have a "free will" ability from which they can choose or not choose to follow the ways of God. This is a false belief which comes from Satan and is the crooked way. However, for the apostate believers who are also "chosen", Christ will come to them a second time and pour out the Latter Rain. This will give the apostate believer a new birth. The new birth will then be immediately followed by Christ's judgment which will destroy their old heaven and earth. Only then will the believer be able to keep the commandments of God. They do so only because Christ causes them to "will and do of His good pleasure".

Joe

 

[Behold]

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to.

What if you keep all the 613 Laws, and the 10 Commandments, and those that Jesus gave and yet you are never born again?

What happens then, after you die?

"HeLL".

Why?

Because the law and commandments were given to show you your SIN, so that you would come to the CROSS, where Jesus died for the Lost so that God can bring you home to Himself., as Born Again.

Jesus said...."you MUST be born again".

= 'MUST"

That's not a suggestion.

 

[FaithWillDo]

There no place in the word of God that will tell you that. Christ is not the one who keeps the law through us, you have to keep the law, you.... not Christ. Jesus did his part, now you have to do yours. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. (2 John 1: 5, 6)....See Exodus 20: 1-17


That's a lie, because the prophet Daniel foretold that Jesus time would be cut off. Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).
You seem to believe what people tell you vs what the Bible is saying. Stop teaching the Bible in the mighty name of Jesus until you learn!!


Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
There no place in the word of God that will tell you that. Christ is not the one who keeps the law through us, you have to keep the law, you.... not Christ. Jesus did his part, now you have to do yours.

Only by "walking by the Spirit" can anyone keep the commandments of Christ. It is the Spirit that causes us to "will and do of His good pleasure".

No where in scripture does it say that "Jesus did his part, now you have to do yours". If we did have a part to play in our salvation, we would have something to boast about concerning it.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Your beliefs are not coming from God's Word.

You said:
That's a lie, because the prophet Daniel foretold that Jesus time would be cut off. Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb). You seem to believe what people tell you vs what the Bible is saying. Stop teaching the Bible in the mighty name of Jesus until you learn!!

I have a complete teaching on Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy on my website. You should read it because your understanding of the prophecy is very flawed. The Seventy Weeks prophecy is a teaching on Christ's work of saving the Elect. When Christ came in the flesh, the last week of years began. After 3 1/2 years of ministry, Christ was cut off at the cross. This caused the continual sacrifice to end because His death was the perfect and final sacrifice. Upon Christ's resurrection, the New Covenant began. That last 3 1/2 years for Christ to complete the salvation of His Elect began at this time. The last 3 1/2 years is individually and spiritually fulfilled within each of the Elect. It begins for an Elect person when they receive the Early Rain and enter the church. It ends when Christ returns with the Latter Rain. Everywhere in scripture it talks about 3 1/2 years (42 months, 1260 days or time, times and a half) it is teaching on this time period between the Early and Latter Rain a Elect believer must experience. When Christ comes with the Latter Rain, this is the moment the prophecy is fulfilled for a particular Elect person. After the last Elect person is saved in this age, the prophecy will be totally fulfilled and the resurrection of the dead with occur.

You said:
Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Grace is God's unmerited favor upon mankind. The Holy Spirit is the free gift. Our faith (which Christ must give us) is what makes the pathway straight for the Lord to come to a person with the free gift of the Holy Spirit. When a person adds their own works to faith like you are doing, the straight pathway is made crooked. Christ will not come to a person on a crooked pathway to give them the free gift of the Holy Spirit (the Latter Rain). Because He doesn't come, they will die in their sins and will remain under the Law.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
There no place in the word of God that will tell you that. Christ is not the one who keeps the law through us, you have to keep the law, you.... not Christ. Jesus did his part, now you have to do yours.

Only by "walking by the Spirit" can anyone keep the commandments of Christ. It is the Spirit that causes us to "will and do of His good pleasure".

Paul says in Romans 8: 4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That righteousness of the law Paul is talking about here is the Commandments of God. So if you walking in the spirit you walking in the law, and one of those Commandments is to keep the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week Saturday.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So if being taught you don't have to keep the law, then you are carnal minded, simple as that.

No where in scripture does it say that "Jesus did his part, now you have to do yours". If we did have a part to play in our salvation, we would have something to boast about concerning it.

Stop copying how I say things, I never said there was a scripture that says Jesus did his part, but Jesus did do his part according to scriptures. Paul says in Acts 24: 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Let's get another witness in Luke 24: 25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Again, Jesus did his part!

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Your beliefs are not coming from God's Word.

That's a lie. You are not understanding the word of God, and some scriptures and verses are clean cut, telling you what to do. If all the prophets, apostles and Jesus have to keep the Commandments (Law) Statues and Judgements, through out all the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, then everyone else. What Paul is saying in this verse you quoted Eph 2: 8-10 is going back to Adam sin and that the creation of man would have all been in the second death. This is not talking about not having to keep the Commandments. For example Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Jesus gave the creation grace, by all he did and dying on the cross. So Noah will come up in the first resurrection, but Cain will not. Why? Because of the law, Cain broke the law!

Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

You said:
That's a lie, because the prophet Daniel foretold that Jesus time would be cut off. Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb). You seem to believe what people tell you vs what the Bible is saying. Stop teaching the Bible in the mighty name of Jesus until you learn!!

It's common sense according to the scriptures, if Jesus got cut off in the middle of the week, then Jesus didn't fulfill all.

I have a complete teaching on Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy on my website. You should read it because your understanding of the prophecy is very flawed. The Seventy Weeks prophecy is a teaching on Christ's work of saving the Elect. When Christ came in the flesh, the last week of years began. After 3 1/2 years of ministry, Christ was cut off at the cross. This caused the continual sacrifice to end because His death was the perfect and final sacrifice. Upon Christ's resurrection, the New Covenant began. That last 3 1/2 years for Christ to complete the salvation of His Elect began at this time. The last 3 1/2 years is individually and spiritually fulfilled within each of the Elect. It begins for an Elect person when they receive the Early Rain and enter the church. It ends when Christ returns with the Latter Rain. Everywhere in scripture it talks about 3 1/2 years (42 months, 1260 days or time, times and a half) it is teaching on this time period between the Early and Latter Rain a Elect believer must experience. When Christ comes with the Latter Rain, this is the moment the prophecy is fulfilled for a particular Elect person. After the last Elect person is saved in this age, the prophecy will be totally fulfilled and the resurrection of the dead with occur.

You said:
Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Grace is God's unmerited favor upon mankind. The Holy Spirit is the free gift. Our faith (which Christ must give us) is what makes the pathway straight for the Lord to come to a person with the free gift of the Holy Spirit. When a person adds their own works to faith like you are doing, the straight pathway is made crooked. Christ will not come to a person on a crooked pathway to give them the free gift of the Holy Spirit (the Latter Rain). Because He doesn't come, they will die in their sins and will remain under the Law.

Joe