Jesus - God or not?

[jaybird]

Salvation is only given when one confesses the true Messiah Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is God the word incarnate. John 1:1-3 & 14. Please take the time to read it and study it carefully.

again, if believing in different natures of the Almighty are key to salvation, where does Jesus teach it? i am not aware of any.

 

[0bed]

i asked about the importance of the trinity, you made a reply talking about salvation.

Without Jesus there would not be a trinity, Your question about the importance of the trinity is a question about Jesus/

 

[jaybird]

Jesus is Mighty God now. Not as far as earthly kingdoms and earthly rulers go, but as God over all. See John 1:1 Romans 9:5 1 John 5:20 John 20:28 1 Timothy 3:16 Heb 1:8.

and what of the Isiah passage? fulfilled or unfulfilled?

 

[jaybird]

Without Jesus there would not be a trinity, Your question about the importance of the trinity is a question about Jesus/

the question was specific to the trinity, these three natures. why are these three natures so important and where does Jesus teach on the importance of them?

 

[0bed]

and what of the Isiah passage? fulfilled or unfulfilled?

Jesus always has been the Word, through whom all things were created.

 

[jaybird]

God did the works not Isaiah. Here Jesus himself did the Miracles which proves he is God.
Do you not believe what Isaiah 6:9 says? Is Jesus not the Prince of Peace?
FYI most Messianic Jews believe in the trinity. The fact that Jews themselves who aren't saved don't believe in the Triune God is not problematic to me whatsoever. In order to believe in Jesus as the Messiah one has to believe that he is God and anyone who does not believe that Jesus is God is not a Christian.
A detailed teaching of the Trinity was only required after Arius started his false teaching. None of the apostles were around when that happened but there was much teaching that went against Arius and Arianism. The fact that there has always been and will always be false teaching in the church is not surprising because it was identified early on in the New Testament. I always wonder why people don't believe exactly what God's word says?
As far as Paul is concerned, you ought to read what he writes in Colossians 1:15-19, 2:9-10, to name just a few Scriptures that confirm Jesus' deity.

i go to a Messianic study group, they are about even split on the subject.

"In order to believe in Jesus as the Messiah one has to believe that he is God and anyone who does not believe that Jesus is God is not a Christian."

where does Jesus teach this? why is it not in the apostles creed?

there is not a detailed teaching on the trinity in the bible just like you said. this has been my point all along.

 

[jaybird]

Jesus always has been the Word, through whom all things were created.

so in other words you dont know?

 

[0bed]

so in other words you dont know?

I have just told you Jesus is Immanuel, God on earth. Your question should be, who was Jesus before he came to his own.

 

[jaybird]

I have just told you Jesus is Immanuel, God on earth. Your question should be, who was Jesus before he came to his own.

the question was specific to the Isiah passage, the one you wont answer. not that hard.

 

[0bed]

the question was specific to the Isiah passage, the one you wont answer. not that hard.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6 KJV

Please repeat the question, exactly as you asked it.

 

[StanJ]

i read the scriptures and let them speak for themselves. i dont go in with a preset doctrine belief that i bend the scriptures to support.
Jesus says we can ask the Father in the name of the Son. the prayer goes to the Father. Jesus never teaches ask the Son or Father because its all the same, there is a difference which is why He taught "in My name".

John 14:10-11
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
John 14:13-14
And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

You obviously don't let the scriptures speak for themselves if you continue to read them and not see or acknowledge what it actually says.
John 1:14-18
So the word of God became a human being and lived among us. We saw his splendour (the splendour as of a father’s only son), full of grace and truth. And it was about him that John stood up and testified, exclaiming: “Here is the one I was speaking about when I said that although he would come after me he would always be in front of me; for he existed before I was born!” Indeed, every one of us has shared in his riches—there is a grace in our lives because of his grace. For while the Law was given by Moses, love and truth came through Jesus Christ. It is true that no one has ever seen God at any time. Yet the divine and only Son, who lives in the closest intimacy with the Father, has made him known.

WHO became flesh Jaybird?

 

[StanJ]

i go to a Messianic study group, they are about even split on the subject.

"In order to believe in Jesus as the Messiah one has to believe that he is God and anyone who does not believe that Jesus is God is not a Christian."

where does Jesus teach this? why is it not in the apostles creed?

there is not a detailed teaching on the trinity in the bible just like you said. this has been my point all along.

I doubt that very much
Jesus did teach it but you keep on ignoring his words as I've already shown you. The Apostles Creed has nothing to do with scripture.
Jesus said many times in the Gospels; "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Apparently you don't have ears to hear for eyes to see?

 

[jaybird]

WHO became flesh Jaybird?

I doubt that very much
Jesus did teach it but you keep on ignoring his words as I've already shown you. The Apostles Creed has nothing to do with scripture.
Jesus said many times in the Gospels; "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Apparently you don't have ears to hear for eyes to see?

the word became flesh. why does it not say the Father became flesh? why does Jesus not refer to the one that sent Him as the word? you ever think maybe theres a reason for that?
you know very well the Apostles creed was used for many years in early Christianity to serve as a simple way to proclaim Christians. and now your saying it means nothing because it doesent teach the trinity, i think there is a good reason why the trinity is not in it.
my ears work fine, my eyes are not blinded by doctrines of man.

 

[jaybird]

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6 KJV

Please repeat the question, exactly as you asked it.

has Isiah 9 6 been fulfilled?

 

[StanJ]

the word became flesh. why does it not say the Father became flesh? why does Jesus not refer to the one that sent Him as the word? you ever think maybe theres a reason for that?
you know very well the Apostles creed was used for many years in early Christianity to serve as a simple way to proclaim Christians. and now your saying it means nothing because it doesent teach the trinity, i think there is a good reason why the trinity is not in it.
my ears work fine, my eyes are not blinded by doctrines of man.

Why do you want everything to be in your words and your understanding rather than learn the words of the Bible and what they say?
Who is the Father? Is he not God? Who is the word according to John 1:1? Is He not God?
Who is the biological father of Jesus? Is He not the Holy Spirit as per Matthew 1:20? Is the Holy Spirit not God?
We're not in the early days of Christianity, we are two thousand plus years later and we know much more now than the early Christians ever did. To continually deny what the word of God says and is clearly evident to your eyes means just that, you cannot understand what you see so you don't have eyes to see and you do not understand what you hear so you do not have ears to hear.

 

[StanJ]

has Isiah 9 6 been fulfilled?

If the Prince of Peace is Jesus and is also known as Mighty God, Everlasting Father, then how do you fail to see that Jesus is God?

 

[jaybird]

To continually deny what the word of God says and is clearly evident to your eyes means just that, you cannot understand what you see so you don't have eyes to see and you do not understand what you hear so you do not have ears to hear.

i am not denying anything Jesus taught, i am not agreeing with your opinion of what Jesus taught. sorry but you are not Jesus.

 

[jaybird]

we know much more now than the early Christians ever did.

i think this is where your problems stem from. what is Christianity today? a zillion denominations all claiming the other is wrong, a zillion bible versions. preachers that get on TV and say people need a Holy Spirit enema right up their @@@, CC machines in church lobbies, preachers living like rock stars, and on and on.

yeah we know so much more than those that walked with Jesus or walked with His Apostles.

 

[StanJ]

i am not denying anything Jesus taught, i am not agreeing with your opinion of what Jesus taught. sorry but you are not Jesus.

If you deny what the written word said then you deny what Jesus taught. It's pretty simple.

 

[StanJ]

i think this is where your problems stem from. what is Christianity today? a zillion denominations all claiming the other is wrong, a zillion bible versions. preachers that get on TV and say people need a Holy Spirit enema right up their @@@, CC machines in church lobbies, preachers living like rock stars, and on and on.
yeah we know so much more than those that walked with Jesus or walked with His Apostles.

This is nothing more than deflection and exaggeration. Try sticking to the point being made and address the scriptures being given. It's not a matter of pointing out all the wrong that people do, it's a matter of knowing what the Bible says and submitting to it. That is your job and nobody else's. If you ask and you're told then you have no excuse and your ignorance will fail you at Judgment Day.