Jesus Is A God Of Conditional Love, Not Unconditional Love.

[fivesense]

As usual, great posts from all. It’s wonderful to see the depth and breadth of people in these forums.
All I can speak from is my understanding and experience. The God I have met is infinitely loving. His love and dedication knows no bounds.
The two biggest problems I have with God’s love being conditional is that firstly it’s unscriptural and secondly it removes all hope from all of us.
I don’t know what kind of supermen/women you lot are, but I have found that I cannot completely, 100% follow the Law (in any of the 1000 flavours you would like to present it in). I am human, mortal, limited and in a fallen world – it ‘aint gonna happen. My heart, my mind my flesh will betray me.
My joy, however, is in that I am fully accepted by God, not because of me but because of my lovely saviour, Jesus. Because of Jesus I now have full access to God and full acceptance. I don’t do what God wants out of duty or fear, but out of Love and respect. I am not bound by law, but lost in Love.
I don’t walk some jagged mountain top, fearful of toppling over into “sin” at any moment, but lie safe in my father’s arms.
From God’s heartfelt cry in the garden “Adam, where are you?”, through Job’s cry “Oh that there was a mediator between God and Man” to Jesus’ “It is finished” paints for us a portrait of a God who would not be separated from us – who literally moved heaven and earth to be with us.
It is we who try to manipulate by withholding our love, not God. I know this will offend some, but I cannot find another way of saying it. People mold their God in their own likeness and then find reasons to support it. But God will be God.

Amen Grat, amen.
fivesense

 

[jiggyfly]

As usual, great posts from all. It’s wonderful to see the depth and breadth of people in these forums.
All I can speak from is my understanding and experience. The God I have met is infinitely loving. His love and dedication knows no bounds.
The two biggest problems I have with God’s love being conditional is that firstly it’s unscriptural and secondly it removes all hope from all of us.
I don’t know what kind of supermen/women you lot are, but I have found that I cannot completely, 100% follow the Law (in any of the 1000 flavours you would like to present it in). I am human, mortal, limited and in a fallen world – it ‘aint gonna happen. My heart, my mind my flesh will betray me.
My joy, however, is in that I am fully accepted by God, not because of me but because of my lovely saviour, Jesus. Because of Jesus I now have full access to God and full acceptance. I don’t do what God wants out of duty or fear, but out of Love and respect. I am not bound by law, but lost in Love.
I don’t walk some jagged mountain top, fearful of toppling over into “sin” at any moment, but lie safe in my father’s arms.
From God’s heartfelt cry in the garden “Adam, where are you?”, through Job’s cry “Oh that there was a mediator between God and Man” to Jesus’ “It is finished” paints for us a portrait of a God who would not be separated from us – who literally moved heaven and earth to be with us.
It is we who try to manipulate by withholding our love, not God. I know this will offend some, but I cannot find another way of saying it. People mold their God in their own likeness and then find reasons to support it. But God will be God.

Very nice post Grat, God's love is irresistible, inescapable, unstoppable, and unassuageable.

 

[fivesense]

Very nice post Grat, God's love is irresistible, inescapable, unstoppable, and unassuageable.

I say Amen! again. It is a great post, jiggyfly, isn't it..
fivesense

 

[ozell]

Jesus said

Jn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

why must we continue in his love if his love is unconditionally?

Jesus said

10: If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

a·bide

1.
to remain; continue; stay: Abide with me.
2. to have one's abode; dwell; reside: to abide in a small Scottish village.

3. to continue in a particular condition, attitude, relationship, etc.; last.

to abide in Jesus love we have to KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS

this is a condition from God!!!

Pay close attention to what the Lord speaks here

Mt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

It obvious that this verse CANNOT apply to the God so loved the world verse below

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

GOD shall not forgive those who blasphemes and speak against the holy ghost in this world and the world to come.

God CANNOT love these who blaspheme the holy ghost, he won't forgive them so he can't love them.

This is the God of conditional love who made this statement

Mat 12v31: Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Jesus said

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

lets look at a parable from Jesus to see who is in the world

Mt 13v36: Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37: He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38: The field is the world;
the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
but
the tares are the children of the wicked one;

lets look at the prince of the world when Jesus came in the flesh and before he came in the flesh

Satan rules all kingdoms

Mt 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9: And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Satan is the prince of this world

Jn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me

Satan devieved the whole world when he was cast out of earth and it started with Eve.

Rev 12v9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

the whole world was in deception before the Father sent Jesus

yet their was some who still beleived in Jesus and his word!!

Jesus said

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jesus had written

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Paul said

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

God is Love

yet his love is conditional!

you and I have to do something to to stay in his love!

 

[fivesense]

God is Love

yet his love is conditional!

you and I have to do something to to stay in his love!

I am not a Jew, and should you be of that race, you are correct, you must do something. I am a Gentile of the nations, called, chosen and elect, justified as a sinner and ungodly, by the faith of Christ imparted to me from above, as a gift, without works of the flesh, in order to show forth the mercy and grace of God. You, on the other hand, being Jewish, are to maintain every jot and tittle of the law until heaven and earth pass away, and every prophecy and commandment is fulfilled. You need to be baptized in water for the remission of sins and bring forth fruit meet for repentence as proof of your swearing to uphold the Covenant of your fathers with God. He will not relent in His requirement of Israel. I, as a Gentile, have never been a part of that, never had the Law or the ordinances or the oracles given to my ancestors, and never transgressed the Law as it had never been given to me or anyone but Israel. My obedience to Christ comes from faith empowered from above, from the Source, and I am His acheivement, His workmanship, it is no longer I but Christ which lives in me. I am dead, and dead men cannot live apart from the Spirit of God animating them. If then, my living is not of me, then I am living the life of Christ, and the love of God is manifest apparently.
You are silly or you are Jewish, which is it?
fivesense

 

[ozell]

The God of condtional love had Peter write this

2 Peter 2v10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

do you really beleive God love those who CANNOT CEASE FROM SIN?

do you really think God love these people here in Romans?

 

[fivesense]

The God of condtional love had Peter write this

2 Peter 2v10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

do you really beleive God love those who CANNOT CEASE FROM SIN?

do you really think God love these people here in Romans?

Once God has cleared up the matter of unbelief in the Son of God, the sin that brings the whole world into judgment over and above sins of the flesh, with the proper and loving chastening He decided is appropriate, then His love will be known and experienced by all. Until justice has been meted out, and each gets what he deserves, according to their belief, God is at peace with all men everywhere because of the torment and humiliation of the Sacrifice made to ransom us. This also is of faith, to believe in the total work of Calvary. Sinful man and sinful flesh would rather have other men suffering for not believing what they believe. That is why He gave us the Scriptures, to avoid those who are ignorant of the love of God, and cannot see Him because they are self-condemned, and believe not the truth.

Sin has been judged. It was exposed, magnified, multiplied, exploded, and shockingly revealed at the Cross of Calvary. Those who do not believe that the One who was made sin for us was the perfect sacrifice, able to remove sin from the world, are in big trouble.

fivesense

 

[Vengle53]

Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love.

Deut 30v:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

the Lord set the table

choose

1Cor 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

here is the condition Jesus set forth to those that love him

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

the condition from God's mouth is for us to keep his commandments



1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

God's love requires us to keep his commandments.

These prophetic words in the life of King David show Christ's attitude. He is not a whimp. Psalms 139:21-24 "Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? (22) I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. (23) Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: (24) And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting."

His death was an unconditional act only in the sense that it provides everyone equal opportunity.

But insofar as someone saying that no where does the Bible say his love is conditional, neither does it point blank say it is unconditional. But it very clearly says: John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

So now, you tell me what that means for one who does not have his commandments and keep them, thus showing that they love him?

 

[Paul]

Once God has cleared up the matter of unbelief in the Son of God, the sin that brings the whole world into judgment over and above sins of the flesh, with the proper and loving chastening He decided is appropriate, then His love will be known and experienced by all. Until justice has been meted out, and each gets what he deserves, according to their belief, God is at peace with all men everywhere because of the torment and humiliation of the Sacrifice made to ransom us. This also is of faith, to believe in the total work of Calvary. Sinful man and sinful flesh would rather have other men suffering for not believing what they believe. That is why He gave us the Scriptures, to avoid those who are ignorant of the love of God, and cannot see Him because they are self-condemned, and believe not the truth.

Sin has been judged. It was exposed, magnified, multiplied, exploded, and shockingly revealed at the Cross of Calvary. Those who do not believe that the One who was made sin for us was the perfect sacrifice, able to remove sin from the world, are in big trouble.

fivesense

So does God force Himself on a person that does not believe in Him?

 

[fivesense]

These prophetic words in the life of King David show Christ's attitude. He is not a whimp. Psalms 139:21-24 "Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? (22) I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. (23) Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: (24) And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting."

His death was an unconditional act only in the sense that it provides everyone equal opportunity.

But insofar as someone saying that no where does the Bible say his love is conditional, neither does it point blank say it is unconditional. But it very clearly says: John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

So now, you tell me what that means for one who does not have his commandments and keep them, thus showing that they love him?

Mt 5:43-45 . Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you, That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

It is obvious from this Bible passage in Matthew, that what David thought and felt are not in accord with the mind of God or His Son. David loved God and was promised by Him that his heir would sit on the throne. His understanding of the operations of God came from experiencing the slaughter and driving out of the nations that opposed YHWH's plans to establish His presence on earth through the Chosen People. Destruction and crisis and judgment are pervasive throughout his time. He was a man, a man desirous of the things of God, not unlike Saul of Tarsus.

Ac 2:30 Therefore (David) being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

If God is love, and you must certainly believe this to be true, then the following must also be true of Him:

1Jn 4:8 he who is not loving did not know God, because God is love.

Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

YLT 1C 13:4 . The love is long-suffering, it is kind, the love doth not envy, the love doth not vaunt itself, is not puffed up, doth not act unseemly, doth not seek its own things, is not provoked, doth not impute evil, rejoiceth not over the unrighteousness, and rejoiceth with the truth; all things it beareth, all it believeth, all it hopeth, all it endureth. The love doth never fail; and whether there be prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;

It is not acceptable in the eyes of God to retain hate or judgment against those who do not perceive things as we do. The unbeliever has his portion in the lake of fire-the second death. Those resurrected ones at the Great White Throne will come to be in their mortal bodies before the Brilliant One, their thoughts, intentions, and deceptions exposed to the light, terrified and humiliated in His presence before being put to death once more for the eons. It will be the major crisis of their lives. It will be just chastening for their works. It will also be swift and merciful to die in this manner. They will all acclaim His glory when they are vivified in Christ and death and hades will be nullified.

Ro 2:8-9 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

God will become All in all at the consummation of all things.

1C 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

1C 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Do not be deceived about this, God will have His way with all men, no matter what it takes. He has the time and the power to accomplish His will.

fivesense

 

[fivesense]

So does God force Himself on a person that does not believe in Him?

This story was a good one that showed me how God is operating all according to the counsel of His own will.

"In this connection I am reminded of the infidel who raised his hand aloft and dared God, if there be a God, to bring it down. It was a silly thing to do, for God wants hands raised against Him now and refuses to use force in compelling obedience. Yet God has other ways, quite as effectual and far more impressive, though ridiculously simple, for accomplishing His purpose. It happens that, in this case, the infidel was bald. And it also "happened" that there was a fly buzzing about. Just as the infidel had hurled his challenge, and stood waiting for an answer, the fly alighted on his pate and, without a moment's consideration, down came the hand to swat the fly! God had answered a fool according to his folly! It did not need omnipotence to answer his boast. It needed insignificant weakness".

Better still is the record of Scripture.

Ac 9:1-6 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

There was not the least intent within the heart and mind of Saul to "accept Christ". He was in fact consenting unto the death of Stephen and even retained his cloak while death was meted out to him. Saul was a vicious and malignant murderer, persecuting the ecclesia of Christ.

1Ti 1:15-16 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

God has established a pattern to look for in believers today. It is based upon the work He did in Saul, who later became Paul, our Apostle to the Gentiles. Saul was not seeking God, and while I do not discount the sincere and humble soul that hears the message of salvation through grace and believes, it is the ungodly and the enemies of Christ that form the larger portion of the Body of Christ. The lost, the desparate, the despised, the hated, these are the called and chosen and elect of God for the purposes of bringing glory to Himself as the Justifier. These are they who say outloud, " I am not worthy for I am a sinner", and loveth Him the more for giving the gift of righteousness with God through faith alone, not being able to boast in the flesh.

Does God force Himself on people? You decide. Is He sovereign and working all according to the counsel of His own will? Or does human reasoning stand in the way of that absolute truth? I know this, that I will believe God.

fivesense

 

[Paul]

...

Does God force Himself on people? You decide. Is He sovereign and working all according to the counsel of His own will? Or does human reasoning stand in the way of that absolute truth? I know this, that I will believe God.

fivesense

I knew you wouldn't answer the question. Salvation is offered to all, all will not except, and they will perish.

 

[fivesense]

I knew you wouldn't answer the question. Salvation is offered to all, all will not except, and they will perish.

I feel I answered your question as best as is possible according to God's own testimony on the subject. Your suggestion that I did not, with a wagging finger, is noted. If you are looking for my opinion on God forcing Himself on others, I have none. I subscribe to the written word of God for my answers, as should all the saints of God.

Paul was blinded for three days and lost his appetite, he did not ask, nor wish, for it to happen. It was a "force" so brilliant, so overwhelming, it put him on the ground. Did God force Himself on Paul? There is little room for analysis, since even the natural man can understand what occurred in those circumstances as recorded by by Holy Spirit. It is to your credit that you have revealed yourself openly concerning my post.

fivesense

 

[Paul]

I feel I answered your question as best as is possible according to God's own testimony on the subject. Your suggestion that I did not, with a wagging finger, is noted. If you are looking for my opinion on God forcing Himself on others, I have none. I subscribe to the written word of God for my answers, as should all the saints of God.

Paul was blinded for three days and lost his appetite, he did not ask, nor wish, for it to happen. It was a "force" so brilliant, so overwhelming, it put him on the ground. Did God force Himself on Paul? There is little room for analysis, since even the natural man can understand what occurred in those circumstances as recorded by by Holy Spirit. It is to your credit that you have revealed yourself openly concerning my post.

fivesense

You should be in politics.

 

[fivesense]

You should be in politics.

It is the intention of God to demonstrate mans' inability to govern himself according to human wisdom. Political activity in a world that is heading towards the crisis of the ages is a lost cause to be involved in. We are to submit to authority, not seek it.

fivesense

 

[ozell]

the Jesus of this bible close the ark doors so Noah and his family can't go out, and the people outside of the ark can't get in!

think about what you read below!!

Gen 7v13: In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14: They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15: And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16: And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

is this the making of a conditional God of Love or a unconditional God of love?

 

[RichardBurger]

In Gen. where Satan tempted Eve we find that God said “if you eat of it you shall surely die“. But Satan said “ you shall not surely die.”

IMHO this idea of “all being saved” is the same thing; God says you will spend eternity in the lake of fire and man says God really didn’t say that, you will all be saved from the lake of fire.

It sure sounds familiar doesn’t it?

The word “everlasting”

If the word “everlasting” does not mean everlasting then the salvation of God is not everlasting.

Matthew 18:8-9
8 "If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.
9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
NKJV

Matthew 25:41
41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand,'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
NKJV

Matthew 25:46
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
NKJV

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
NKJV

John 3:36
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
NKJV

Acts 13:46
46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said,"It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.
NKJV

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
NKJV

 

[Vengle53]

<BR>Mt 5:43-45 . Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you, That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.<BR><BR>It is obvious from this Bible passage in Matthew, that what David thought and felt are not in accord with the mind of God or His Son. David loved God and was promised by Him that his heir would sit on the throne. His understanding of the operations of God came from experiencing the slaughter and driving out of the nations that opposed YHWH's plans to establish His presence on earth through the Chosen People. Destruction and crisis and judgment are pervasive throughout his time. He was a man, a man desirous of the things of God, not unlike Saul of Tarsus.<BR><BR>Ac 2:30 Therefore (David) being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;<BR><BR>If God is love, and you must certainly believe this to be true, then the following must also be true of Him:<BR><BR>1Jn 4:8 he who is not loving did not know God, because God is love.<BR><BR>Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.<BR><BR>YLT 1C 13:4 . The love is long-suffering, it is kind, the love doth not envy, the love doth not vaunt itself, is not puffed up, doth not act unseemly, doth not seek its own things, is not provoked, doth not impute evil, rejoiceth not over the unrighteousness, and rejoiceth with the truth; all things it beareth, all it believeth, all it hopeth, all it endureth. The love doth never fail; and whether there be prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;<BR><BR>It is not acceptable in the eyes of God to retain hate or judgment against those who do not perceive things as we do. The unbeliever has his portion in the lake of fire-the second death. Those resurrected ones at the Great White Throne will come to be in their mortal bodies before the Brilliant One, their thoughts, intentions, and deceptions exposed to the light, terrified and humiliated in His presence before being put to death once more for the eons. It will be the major crisis of their lives. It will be just chastening for their works. It will also be swift and merciful to die in this manner. They will all acclaim His glory when they are vivified in Christ and death and hades will be nullified. <BR><BR>Ro 2:8-9 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;<BR><BR>God will become All in all at the consummation of all things. <BR><BR>1C 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.<BR><BR>1C 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.<BR><BR>Do not be deceived about this, God will have His way with all men, no matter what it takes. He has the time and the power to accomplish His will.<BR><BR>fivesense<BR>

Psalms 11:5 "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

It is obvious David was in accord with the mind of God and his Son. It can get no worse than that, for God to hate someone with his soul. That means complete hatred of that person.

We need to be careful not to cherry pick the Psalms to support our view of a subject. When we acheive the proper view, all of it comes together in perfect harmony.

David wrote under the inspiration of God's spirit. If we feel that we cannot harmonize David's words with the NT writings, I gaurantee it is not David who is wrong. It is us that is wrong and it is time to find the view of the NT writings that do harmonize with David's words. Once we do that we can see that our former view was not as well founded as we had thought, for the view that harmonizes always proves to be more powerfully convicting to us of its truth.

Here is one to begin with: John 14:21 "... he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him ..." Notice the conditions in that and the future tense expression after those conditions are met?

God will not even draw close to one that does not love him: James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up."

There is a difference between doing singular acts of love for those we do not otherwise care for and actually loving someone all of the time such as in a relationship of love. He does those singular acts of love for the one he does not like, because it his desire that through his merciful kindness they my be moved to regret their way, repent of it, and change in themselves to someone he can have a sharing with.

We can relate to that in that we know people in our own lives that we do not really like because the person they are is one that loves things we find objectionable and hurtful. Yet, inspite of not really liking the person they are, we may well furnish them food rather than seeing them starve to death. We would feel that we are no better than they if we did not do so. So also it is with God.

Cases such as Ananias and Sapphira demonstrate that God even draws limits to how long he will continue to show his mercy toward a wicked one.

 

[Mercy777]

Paul was always loyal and committed to God. His actions were just a little misguided for while. Jesus gave him a gentle hint to bring him back in line.

jiggyfly, on 17 June 2010 - 05:54 AM, said:

Did Saul (Paul) come to Him?

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:27
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! (Paul) This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel.

 

[ozell]

pay attention to these spiritual words

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

try to grasp these spiritual words from the creator of conditions the mighty JESUS

pay attention

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

also

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

conditional love from the conditional God


you can't get no more spiritual than this!

Jesus the God of Conditional love said


1Pt 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

was Noah saved?

what happen to the people who did not get on the ark?

what did the conditions call for to be saved?

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.