Jesus Is A God Of Conditional Love, Not Unconditional Love.

[Eccl.12:13]

Prov 6;
[16] These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
[17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
[18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
[19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Now there are some that have said, "God hates the deed/acts, but he loves the person.". Well let's continue to read.....


[19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


At first glance one could say that it is not the person that God hates, but the deeds they do.

Here we find that God hates, not only the deeds people do, but also the people that do them. The above tells us that God also "hates" the person that speaks the lies and the one the soweth discord!

Here are a few more scriptures worth looking at.

Pss. 5;
[4] For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
[5] The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Pss. 11;
[5] The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Once again, some may still want to believe that God loves everyone, but the above scriptures speaks a different story.

Let's read a few more verses. Let's read what the Lord has in store for all those that He "loves"....

Isa.5
[14] Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
[18] Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
[20] Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
[21] Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
[22] Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
[23] Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
[24] Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

This will be the fate of ALL that, "...cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel."


So no matter how you word it....if you do NOT want to go into the fire, you gotta keep God's commandments!


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[TexUs]

why do you say this?

Because if "God's love is based on us keeping his commandments", that would've stopped when Adam and Eve broke them. Thus it cannot be true.

by keeping the commandments man shows God that he Loves and obeys Him

Then your prior translation is wrong and should be "Love for God", and not "Love of God"... I'm glad you arrived at the correct conclusion

 

[Nomad]

So no matter how you word it....if you do NOT want to go into the fire, you gotta keep God's commandments!

So are you saying that obedience to God's commands are the fruit of salvation or the basis of salvation? In other words, do we keep God's commands as an expression of love for our Redeemer as the Apostle John says, or does obedience merit salvation? If you say it's the latter, Scripture couldn't disagree with you more.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

"...do we keep God's commands as an expression of love for our Redeemer as the Apostle John says, or does obedience merit salvation? If you say it's the latter, Scripture couldn't disagree with you more."

Let's reason for a moment.....

If the 'unsaved' will be judged by their deeds to be denied the kingdom of God.....

What will it be that allows the 'saved' to enter the kingdom of God?

The same one that will judge the sinner is the same that will judge the saved? Do you not think the saved will be judged?

And should it not be based on the things they did also? Shouldn't it be their good 'deeds' that allow them into God's kingdom? If it is deeds that deny, should it not be deeds that allow?

If God has (2) standards then He is NOT a very fair God!


Let's read if the only thing that is needed is faith....

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Let's now go to the last book of the bible to find what will be used to judge.....

Rev.20
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So books were opened and people were judged by their works!

Now were ALL of those judged cast into the lake of fire? No!!

Only those whose name was not found in the book were cast in....but they ALL were judged by their "works"!!!


Let's look at one more verse.....

1 Cor.6
[2] Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Now what standard is it that will be used by the saints to judge the world? Do you think the saints will "make-up" their own standard of judgement? Of course not! If we are blessed to be one that will rule with the Lord, it will be HIS standard we use to judge the world!

And guess what? The Lord's standards do not change! What was a sin before He returned will be a sin once He comes back!

All will be required to obey! And if they do not.........

"And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain."

Obedience in return for a reward will continue even when Christ return!!




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[Nomad]

Let's read if the only thing that is needed is faith....

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

So does Paul contradict James? Your understanding of James' argument would suggest that he does. I would suggest that you misunderstand the point James is really making. But first, what do say about Paul's statement in Ephesians 2:8-10? How can your understanding of James 2 and the clear teaching of Paul in Ephesians 2 both be true?

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Let's now go to the last book of the bible to find what will be used to judge.....

Rev.20
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So books were opened and people were judged by their works!

Now were ALL of those judged cast into the lake of fire? No!!

Only those whose name was not found in the book were cast in....but they ALL were judged by their "works"!!!

Yes, we will all be judged by our works, but that judgment is not the basis of damnation or acquittal. The presence or absence of one's name in the Book of Life is the basis at the Great White Throne Judgment, not works (see Rev. 20:15).

Consider the words of Paul to believers in 2 Corinthians 5:10:

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

This is not a judgment to determine one's eternal fate. It's a judgment unto reward or loss.

 

[ozell]

name='TexUs' timestamp='1294506102' post='96731']
Because if "God's love is based on us keeping his commandments", that would've stopped when Adam and Eve broke them. Thus it cannot be true.

God love is based on us keeping his commandments

did Adam and Eve sin after there first? we have no record that they did. we do have record that God love those who love him.

Proverbs 8:17
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

which is the same thing John said

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous

Then your prior translation is wrong and should be "Love for God", and not "Love of God"... I'm glad you arrived at the correct conclusion

however you want to say it the point is God love those who keep his commandments

here is why?

[sup]16[/sup]These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

[sup]17[/sup]A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

[sup]18[/sup]An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

[sup]19[/sup]A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

[sup]20[/sup]My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

[sup]21[/sup]Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck. [sup]22[/sup]When thou goest, it shall lead thee; when thou sleepest, it shall keep thee; and when thou awakest, it shall talk with thee.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Yes, we will all be judged by our works, but that judgment is not the basis of damnation or acquittal. The presence or absence of one's name in the Book of Life is the basis at the Great White Throne Judgment, not works (see Rev. 20:15).

This is not a judgment to determine one's eternal fate. It's a judgment unto reward or loss.

First, What do you think the reason is for the judgement? It is to determine whether or not you will be allowed into God's kingdom. There is only one reward and one loss; God's kingdom or the lake of fire! That is the ONLY reason for the judgement. And what will determine whether or not you will be rewarded or punished? It ALL depends on if your name is in God's book.

And what is it that will cause a persons name to be REMOVED from God's book, thus be judged unworthy to enter into God's kingdom, thus not receive the reward? Let's read it....

Exod.32
[33] And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

And what is sin?

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now if ALL laws have been nailed to Christs' cross, what standard is being used for judgment?

We know faith alone does NOT allow entry! God's word says something WITH faith is needed also! And what does God's word say was used to determine if a name was written in God's book?

"...and they were judged every man according to their works."

Let me ask you....What do YOU think the fate is of someone whose name is not written in God's book?
Would YOU want to be the one NOT found written in God's book?



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You do not have to agree.....but this is what God's word says, not me!
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[TexUs]

God love is based on us keeping his commandments

did Adam and Eve sin after there first? we have no record that they did. we do have record that God love those who love him.

It doesn't matter if they sinned after or not. If your argument was logical, and correct, God's love would have stopped for them after sin.

Proverbs 8:17
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

And this doesn't exclude those that don't, does it?

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous

however you want to say it the point is God love those who keep his commandments

You keep saying that but "love for God" and "love of God" totally changes the meaning of this verse. Looking at the Greek one really cannot be absolutely sure what the intention was, hence why the translations are all over the place ("for" and "of").

Additionally, this verse can also simply mean that the love of God in us is what enables us to keep his commandments which is absolutely Biblical as well.

 

[Robbie]

a human father does waver when it comes to his children, we have a over abundance of fatherless children in this world.

oh.. figured you'd get the drift that I wasn't talking about parent's that abandoned their kids... but Father's who love their kids... but YOU ARE RIGHT... some parents abandon their kids... like I never had a dad... but it's all good.... makes it easier to not call anyone Father but God... I did have other friends though that were always blowing it... getting busted for drugs, stealing, etc... and even though they'd rebel, lie, disobey, etc... their Father's loved them, and loved them, and loved them through it all... those were the Father's I was talking about... and God's love is way greater than theirs could ever be... it's like our Father... even though we've blown it and blown it and blown it He's loved us unconditionally even to point where He sent His Son to die for us when we were at our worst... so humbling... first thing I'm gonna do when I stand before Him is fall on my face at His feet and worship Him because that's what that kind of Love deserves.

Be blessed...

 

[ozell]

name='TexUs' timestamp='1294613659' post='96857']
It doesn't matter if they sinned after or not. If your argument was logical, and correct, God's love would have stopped for them after sin.

who did Jesus die for? who in the world did Jesus ide for? was it those who will continue to sin and come under his blood or those who will stop sinning and come under his blood?

the Godhead knew Adam would sin, so why destroy the creation entirely when we have people like Enoch, Abraham, Job, Daniel and many others.
God's love did not stop because of people like these who obeyed and kept his commandments.
read Hebrews 11 about the people God loved

roverbs 8:17
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

And this doesn't exclude those that don't, does it?

lets read where the Lord hates and ask yourself who is doing the things the Lord hates.

Proverbs 6:16-22

[sup]16[/sup]These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

[sup]17[/sup]A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

[sup]18[/sup]An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

[sup]19[/sup]A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

[sup]20[/sup]My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

[sup]21[/sup]Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.

[sup]22[/sup]When thou goest, it shall lead thee; when thou sleepest, it shall keep thee; and when thou awakest, it shall talk with thee.

You keep saying that but "love for God" and "love of God" totally changes the meaning of this verse. Looking at the Greek one really cannot be absolutely sure what the intention was, hence why the translations are all over the place ("for" and "of").

says who? the Pastor who told you his meaning, your parents? who says the meaning is changed?

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous


Question what is the love of God?
answer that WE keep his commandments.

Additionally, this verse can also simply mean that the love of God in us is what enables us to keep his commandments which is absolutely Biblical as well.

I refuse to believe you got that out of that simple verse?

oh.. figured you'd get the drift that I wasn't talking about parent's that abandoned their kids... but Father's who love their kids... but YOU ARE RIGHT... some parents abandon their kids... like I never had a dad... but it's all good.... makes it easier to not call anyone Father but God... I did have other friends though that were always blowing it... getting busted for drugs, stealing, etc... and even though they'd rebel, lie, disobey, etc... their Father's loved them, and loved them, and loved them through it all... those were the Father's I was talking about... and God's love is way greater than theirs could ever be... it's like our Father... even though we've blown it and blown it and blown it He's loved us unconditionally even to point where He sent His Son to die for us when we were at our worst... so humbling... first thing I'm gonna do when I stand before Him is fall on my face at His feet and worship Him because that's what that kind of Love deserves.

Be blessed...

the people of the flood are the children of God
the people of Sodom and Gommorah are the children of God

one was drowned alive in water
the other was burned alive with fire


what happened to the Fathers Love?

 

[Duckybill]

the people of the flood are the children of God
the people of Sodom and Gommorah are the children of God

one was drowned alive in water
the other was burned alive with fire

You can't be serious.

 

[ozell]

You can't be serious.

are you saying the people of the flood and Sodom an Gomorrah were not his children?

The God that you say love everyone one and everybody drowned a whole world alive with water

the God that you say love everyone and everybody burned 2 major cities and 5 surrounding suburbs

 

[Duckybill]

are you saying the people of the flood and Sodom an Gomorrah were not his children?

They were not His children.

The God that you say love everyone one and everybody drowned a whole world alive with water

the God that you say love everyone and everybody burned 2 major cities and 5 surrounding suburbs

I didn't say God loves everyone. If they were God's children the He sure is an abusive parent.

 

[TexUs]

who did Jesus die for? who in the world did Jesus ide for? was it those who will continue to sin and come under his blood or those who will stop sinning and come under his blood?

the Godhead knew Adam would sin, so why destroy the creation entirely when we have people like Enoch, Abraham, Job, Daniel and many others.
God's love did not stop because of people like these who obeyed and kept his commandments.
read Hebrews 11 about the people God loved

None of this matters to your argument. None of it. You are avoiding the logical issue with your argument.

If God's love is dependant upon obedience, then that love would have STOPPED at Adam and Eve.
Abraham was a liar. David was an adulterer. Moses was a murderer. Paul persecuted Christians.
I'm sorry but your "he saw these men coming" doesn't hold any merit because he also saw their disobedience coming.

So once more, if God's love was depedant upon obedience, it would've stopped with Adam and Eve.

For him to "take mankind back" after that sin means love existed even AFTER sin, didn't it?

says who? the Pastor who told you his meaning, your parents? who says the meaning is changed?

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous

Basic gradeschool education taught me what the word "of" meant and what the word "for" meant. Get real.
"love of God" -> Describes God's love for us.
"love for God" -> Describes our love for God.

Two TOTALLY different meanings.

Why don't you use the NIV? This is love for God: to obey his commands.

Or do you not like that translation because it doesn't enforce your point?

Note, I do think "Love of God" is accurate, but can't be proven (Again, I look at the Greek and can't prove it one way or the other). My point to you is that you must keep an open, unbiased mind and study what's there verses drawing your conclusions and then having to use certain translations (done by humans, by the way) in order to help you prove it.

I refuse to believe you got that out of that simple verse?

It's called Bible Study. When you go beyond "reading" and actually study what's there, you can learn much more.

You must also understand the historical and Biblical relationship between Master and Slave because it is not what we know it as today (voluntary slavery was the norm).
Read Romans 6. Paul talks of the transformed heart. We died to sin. A dead person cannot be ruled by sin anymore. (Romans 6:1-11)
We are then resurrected with Christ. God becomes our master, we are now slaves to righteousness. (Romans 6:15-23)

Thus we are set free from the CONTROL and MASTERY and DOMINION of sin. Now, Paul, when he presents this, asks us if we should still sin. This means Christians are still able to sin in light of this. We are just not ruled or mastered by it anymore.

With that Biblical context in mind you enter into 1 John. The Bible cannot contradict itself. So let's take a look.

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
So we see that faith is the qualifier for salvation. He then states another mark: if we love the Father we should love his children.

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
He continues the same idea (imagine that!)... And addresses how we love his children: when we love him and obey him. Again, the Bible cannot contradict itself. It will also not contradict the prior verse that states salvation is by faith. It will not contradict Paul. So keep in mind the mastery thing Paul taught us in Romans 6: we are no longer ruled or mastered by sin. So we are naturally inclined to follow his commandments- this doesn't mean we won't slip up.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
Again, he continues the same idea (imagine that!)... See the train of thought? He starts with faith (v1), then gives evidences for that faith (loving children of God), and then tells us how we love children of God (v2), by following his commandments, and will then tell us here in v3, how to follow his commandments. He gives us three steps and elaborations upon his thinking. He won't break this in v3.
We follow his commandments... By the love of God! God's love enables us to keep his commandments. It's as easy as that, fits right in with faith salvation, fits right in with Romans 6, fits right in with the rest of the Bible. There's nothing good we can do on our own but that which God enables us to do.


For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And then, imagine that... he continues his thought. We overcome the world (sin). Again, this doesn't mean it's been eliminated, but overcome. No longer masters us.
He then tells us HOW (notice he's told us something, and then elaborated on it, many times in a row now?)-> Our faith! Once more, our faith (love) is how we overcome these things. This ties in with everything in the Bible as well as v3.

Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
And then he, yet again, continues his thinking, and elaborates again, and again restates that it's only by FAITH (not works) we can do these things.

the people of the flood are the children of God
the people of Sodom and Gommorah are the children of God

This is false. Just READ THE BIBLE:
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[Robbie]

what happened to the Fathers Love?

He built a boat and gave them Noah to tell them to repent... they chose not to listen... He loved them... they rejected His love... as it is today... is it such a hard thing to understand this simple principle? Every day humans love people that don't love them back... and those are people. God loves everyone... to the point that he sent His Son to die for our sins. Whether people choose to receive that Love is irrelevant to whether God loves them. God loves everyone whether they choose to receive it or not.

This is a simple truth... but like anything... it can be received or rejected... this is our free will... which was also given to us by God's love...

Hope this blesses you... I will not go back and forth on this anymore... if you receive it good... if not I'm moving on... much love...

 

[Eccl.12:13]

God loves everyone... to the point that he sent His Son to die for our sins. Whether people choose to receive that Love is irrelevant to whether God loves them. God loves everyone whether they choose to receive it or not.

Really? Because, according to God's holy word He does NOT love everyone. Let's read it.....again;

Prov 6;
[16] These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

Now there are some that have said, "God hates the deed/acts, but he loves the person.". Well let's continue to read.....

[19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

At first glance one could say that it is not the person that God hates, but the deeds they do.

Here we find that God hates, not only the deeds people do, but also the people that do them. The above tells us that God also "hates" the person that speaks the lies and the one the soweth discord!

Here are a few more scriptures worth looking at.

Pss. 5;
[4] For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
[5] The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Pss. 11;
[5] The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Now YOU say God loves "everybody"!

But God's word says there are those, actual people, NOT deeds, that He hates!

Now what do we do with these scriptures? We cannot just toss them or ignore them, for God's word also says, "And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."Let me ask you....Does God love ALL of His creation? Before answering let's read about one perfect being God made, and then ask yourself again, Does God love ALL of His creation?

Ezek.28
[12] Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Now this being WAS perfect, but does God still love him?

And if not, why do people think that God would still love ALL those that continue to follow this being, that was, "...perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created..."?



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[TexUs]

Are we disagreeing about general love of mankind verses effectual saving love?

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Are we disagreeing about general love of mankind verses effectual saving love?

????????????

I am replying to this,

God loves everyone... to the point that he sent His Son to die for our sins. Whether people choose to receive that Love is irrelevant to whether God loves them. God loves everyone whether they choose to receive it or not.

And God's word says this,

Prov 6;
[16] These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
[19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Pss. 5;
[4] For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
[5] The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Pss. 11;
[5] The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Now....according to God's word there are those, actual people that He hates. He hates their deeds AND those that do them.

I also asked If God loved ALL that He created, including this being;

Ezek.28
[12] Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Now this being WAS perfect, but does God still love him?



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[Robbie]

There's no point in me responding to your quoting of scriptures because you're trying to get me to look at God through a veil with you so I can see it your way... but I already know what God looks like through a veil because I've seen Him that way before so I understand why you see Him the way you do... but personally I don't waste my time trying to figure out what God looks like through the veil anymore... I just look at God with the veil removed by seeing Him through Christ alone and in that I see clearly that GOD IS LOVE... I never expect to come to an agreement with you unless I choose to return to looking at God through the veil (God forbid) or you choose to look at God through Christ alone. Until that time we'll just go back and forth, back and forth... I'll point out what God looks like without the veil and we'll go back and forth while you tell me I'm wrong because I need to look at Him through the veil of the Law and the Prophets and the Old. This would be a waste of time... I do encourage you to know God through Christ alone... because it's the only way to know Him in the TRUTH.

There's no point in you quoting any of the Law or the Prophets at me to prove your point... because I will never try to understand God through the Law or the Prophets ever again... I know Him through Christ alone... and in Him I clearly see that God is Love... this is eternal life, to know God and believe in the One He sent... this is the work of God, to believe in the One He sent... if you've seen Him you've seen the Father...

Hope this blesses you...
Robbie

 

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John 1:17 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)
17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


The Proper Distinction


between

Law and Gospel

by C.F.W. Walther


@

http://lutherantheology.com/uploads/works/walther/LG/