Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by kerwin, Sep 25, 2016.

  1. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    So you claim that Koine Greek does not refer to gender of the individual.

    Please tell me how you translate legei in NT Greek. How would you translate gune, where 'e' is the letter eta? Sadly, I can't transliterate with an ellipse over the 'e' on this forum.
     
  2. shnarkle

    shnarkle New Member

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    I think the doctrine of the trinity may be confusing to some, but there is logic to it, especially John's usage of "the word". The transcendent father is manifest through the power of the breath/spirit in the word made flesh. If the word is made flesh, then it is flesh. The incarnation is then made a sacrifice for sin, and then resurrected and restored to the right hand of God. Now I can say that my right hand isn't who I am, but it certainly is my right hand, and without it, I'm not going to be able to do a whole lot of things.
     
  3. Odn

    Odn New Member

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    I agree up till your explanation that Jesus is 'a god', .. which is true in a sense John 10:34 since we have the Spirit, or "breath" of God in us, and the Bible is also clear on that we are the "Children of God", .. created in Gods image.

    As I have explained in my previous post, here is what John 1:1 writes:

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    We know God created all the languages, so since I am a simple man (don't speak any Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew, I will go by the English version as it has been translated:
    In the beginning was the Word
    God is both Infinite and Eternal, no beginning nor end, and in His explanation to Moses as to who He is, He said: "Tell them 'I Am' has sent me to you", so we know that the "Word" is NOT God.
    So who had a beginning, and who will be there at the last tthing God creates?
    In Revelations 1:8, .. Revelation 21:6, Revelation 22:13 we know is Gods Son Word, "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." who became flesh and was named Jesus.

    (*Rev 1:8 with explanation using Scripture)

    and the Word was with God
    .. obviously

    and the Word was God
    not a-god, but the Word really WAS God, just as their creation in their image Eve WAS Adam before God took her out of Adam.
    God beget His Son Word, just as He later beget Eve from Adam. Genesis 2:21, 22

    It is 'mind' over body, our mind is of (breath/Spirit), and IS God, and our body is created by God.


    Here is some 'meat',

    Warning: the following information is not for babes in need of milk, but those that can handle meat!

    Just as we don't exist without our mind/spirit, God does not exist without His Son Word (now also Jesus Christ), so as Tillich so beautifully explained: "God is not a being, but the ground of being." and he goes on to say: "It is atheistic to affirm the existence of God as it is to deny it. God is being itself, not 'a being'."

    Of course this goes right smack in the face of any religion, especially the Christian Religion, since ALL religions have their own created version of god/gods. Our Infinite Creator revealed in the Bible and in nature/creation itself (as in science) is not the result of some man-made religion-god as what Constantine RCC created Christian Religion deity-god is.
     
  4. Odn

    Odn New Member

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    God is Spirit and Holy, who beget a Son he named 'Word', whom He put in a place called Heaven, through whom He created everything that was ever created. John 1:1 So now the One true Holy Spirit God is a father. When the Holy Spirit is mentioned, that is the "Power of God", still God.

    No, the Holy Spirit did not "come from the Father", .. but IS the Father, who is as is written 'Spirit and Holy'. The Son Word came (begotten) from the Father just as Eve came (was begotten) from Adam.

    As for what you said: "The The Word proceedeth from The Father, THROUGH The Holy Spirit.", .. it is actually the Word/Son became flesh through the Holy Spirit.

    Mathew 1:20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

    When we speak the 'truth', it is Gods Holy Spirit, now also the Spirit that dwells in His Son Word that is speaking through us.
    1 Corinthians 2:12
    Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.


    And after this, it is as you said: "The Word, Now since the Manifestation in the flesh through the Virgin woman., is considered the Son of Man AND the Son of God." John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

    God bless you!
     
  5. 101G

    101G Member

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    GINOLJC, to all. not saying that anyone is right or wrong, but consider what I’m about to say. there have been some good responses to the original post. now taken from the op, it states,

    5 For there is one God.
    There is also one mediator between God and the human race,
    Christ Jesus, himself human,

    Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35-36)
    A being is either of 100% of one kind or 100% of another not 100% of one kind and 100% of another.

    Using deductive reasoning it is quite easy to see that since all these premises are true then Jesus is 100% human and 0% the one true God.

    ******************* keep in memory 100%

    Then kerwin said something very intresting.
    It is a math problem.
    100% is the whole and there cannot two wholes in one whole.

    The claim there is would be to claim 1 + 1 = 1 and that is an untrue statement.

    and Odn said something interesting,
    God is Spirit and Holy, who beget a Son he named Word

    and then he said, No, the Holy Spirit did not "come from the Father", .. but IS the Father, who is as is written 'Spirit and Holy'. The Son Word came (begotten) from the Father just as Eve came (was begotten) from Adam.
    ********************************************************
    I have not read every post, but this is enough to go on. all have good points, but consider this. what if God is a plurality of himself meaning two individuals but the same person, not PERSON(S), but SPIRIT(S). {my first hint, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ}, both Spirit are capitalized. now I know what one is thinking, “there is one Spirit”, yes, and true, but what if the ONE Spirit diversified himself, like in flesh and bone. would not the Spirit be Spirit, but also spirit, diversified in flesh and bone?. then the formula 1+1=1 is not so absurd after all. I want to concentrate on Person and not the Spirit.

    now the question, “how could the formula 1+1=1 be validated, or confirmed, especially by scripture. it can, let me say it again, it can. this would clear up the John 17:3 controversy as well as Titus 2:13, controversy and many many more scriptures in question about our Lord deity.

    suggestion, what if God is the plurality (H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym) of himself in flesh and bone, meaning two individuals, or as the Hebrew language describe this plurality as the H258/H259 אָחַד 'achad /אֶחָד 'echad of himself in flesh and bone, again, the same person. in this formula here, one would have one + one or “ANOTHER of himself that is one God with one NATURE, shared or diversified in another NATURE, here flesh and bone.

    conclusion: God is a plurality of himself. this being defined in the old testament as the Hebrew words describe, H259, H312. in the Greek, the definition is G243 Allos.

    could this be supported by scripture? yes. Phil 2:6 & 7. and revealed in Genesis 1:26, and certified throughout several chapters in the book of Isaiah and others, but also in the minor prophets of Malachi. especially in Zechariah, which is clearly seen in chapter 13 and verse7, just to name a few.

    footnote 1+1=1 can be applied in nature. 1 Man, husband + 1 woman, wife = 1 Child. Just a footnote...... (smile). a good re-reading of this post is worthy.
     
  6. Guestman

    Guestman Member

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    Jesus is "a god", for the apostle John wrote concerning him: "No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god (Greek monogenes theos or created god) who is at the Father's side is the one who has explained him".(John 1:18) Jesus said in the Bible book of Revelation: "These are the things the Son of God says........To the angel of the congregation of Laodicea write: These are the things that the Amen says (see 2 Cor 1:20 whereby Paul identifies Jesus as the Amen), the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God".(Rev 2:18; 3:14)

    Jesus is thus "a god", having superhuman power, and in which Isaiah 63 describes him as God's "own personal messenger" (Isa 63:9; "angel of his presence", KJV) who saved the nation of Israel from distressing situations, such as their release from Egypt by causing the 10 plagues and during their 40 year trek in the wilderness.(Ex 14:19, 20)

    John 1:1, 2 reads literally: "In beginning was the (Greek ho, definite article) Word and the (Greek ho, definite article) Word was toward (or with) the (Greek ho, definite article) God and god (no definite article here) was the (Greek ho, definite article) Word. This was in beginning toward (or with) the (Greek ho, definite article) God".

    Why was the definite article left out by the apostle John when calling Jesus "god" ? Simply put, because Jesus is not "the God", but his "only-begotten god" or "only-begotten Son" that he created as his "firstborn".(Col 1:15) Jesus is also called God's "master worker" at Proverbs 8:30 (Hebrew ’a·mohn meaning "skilled i.e. an architect", the King James Bible leaves out this Hebrew word, skipping over it; see the online Scripture4all interlinear), who assisted Jehovah God in creating the universe.(see Col 1:16 which says that "by means of him (Jesus) all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible")
     
  7. ScottA

    ScottA Member

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    This is a misunderstanding. You reason with the reasoning of a man, as a man. And just as God is higher than man, so are his ways. What is impossible for men by his own understanding and logic, is possible with God.

    So, then, if we are told that God is One, and Jesus explains that he and the Father are One...a reasonable person will not look to the relationship he has with his own father [entirely] as if it is a law which God is bound by, and say that it is impossible for things to be different for God, as you have. No, a reasonable person will know the voice of his Master and hear him and believe his explanation.