Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[robert derrick]

Of course the Law of Liberty goes beyond the Ten Commandments - Isaiah prophesied Jesus would "magnify the law" which is what He did when He came and said lust was just as bad as adultery and hate was just as bad as killing.

What we need to understand is that the Spirit of the Sabbath Commandment does not grant authorization to refuse obedience to keeping the Sabbath Commandment.

"You said: "he (Jesus) tells us we need to prepare to be judged by the Ten Commandmetns" but you didn't give a scripture reference of where He said that. May I see it please?"

That was the question she asked. Politely.

We are also waiting any Scripture at all in the New Testament of our Risen Savior where the Sabbath, the day of rest, not working one day in the week is even remotely spoken of for Christians to do and obey..anything like that will do.

Or you can give Scripture where the '10 commandments' is spoken of for Christian obedience to the Risen Saviour.

 

[atpollard]

dare I ask?

how do you know Jesus?

... best guess (since I am not him): The same way anyone else knows Jesus.

(opinions to the contrary not withstanding, there is only ONE door and ONE path, so everyone enters the same way.)

 

[robert derrick]

The Bible declares both explicit and implicit truths, so there's nothing wrong with properly identifying either when they are Biblically established.

For instance, "thou shalt not kill" is explicit. "Thou shalt not kill quickly with a bullet or slowly with poison" is implicit.

You should know that the Bible uses the same word "pele'" to refer to Jesus as "wonderful" in Isaiah 9:6 KJV and "secret" when referring to the "Angel of the Lord" in the book of Judges when the Angel appears to Manoah.

That "Angel" was JESUS manifesting Himself as the "Angel of the Lord" where He took the name "Michael", just as when He later manifested Himself as a man and took the name "Jesus".

Michael is an archangel. A created archangel as all angels are created.

I always figured the 'created-christ-mongerers' would most likely also be made-up lawgivers for Christians, and here we are: Sabbath commanders posing as believers in Jesus as Lord and God.

 

[theefaith]

And if you don't, then you will burn forever in the lake of fire:

"Teaching people we don't have to keep the Sabbath will land such an impenitent one in the Lake of Fire with the rest of "the least", and they will get zero mercy, no matter how much they gnash their rebel teeth."

Just spreadin' the love...

where’s that in the Bible?

 

[theefaith]

Where does it say go to church or Sunday school or take communion on 1st Sunday or have a camp meeting or revivals? NT

 

[atpollard]

Where does it say go to church or Sunday school or take communion on 1st Sunday or have a camp meeting or revivals? NT

I think it is in the Book of Hesitations ... you know, near the verses:

• "Cleanliness is next to Godliness"
• "God helps those that help themselves"
• "Christians don't smoke."

(I hear it quoted ALL the time.)

 

[robert derrick]

Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta says it's "the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" because if we're resting in Jesus, we'll demonstrate that inward rest by outwardly resting on the Lord's day, the Sabbath (Isaiah 58:13 KJV).

That's what the Bible says, no matter if we agree or not, right or wrong?

"Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta says it's "the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" because if we're resting in Jesus, we'll demonstrate that inward rest by outwardly resting on the Lord's day, the Sabbath (Isaiah 58:13 KJV)."

Here is the carnality of Sabbath-keepers by law. They have no spiritual concept of being outwardly at rest, wherever and whenever you are, because of the inward rest of soul and peace of heart.

They must by law perform an outward show of rest to prove how rested up they are on the inside.

"Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity."

It is the same show of will worship as circumcision, demanding an outward carnal performance of the inward work done:

"For he is not at rest, which is resting outwardly; neither is that Day of rest, which is outward in the flesh: But he is at rest, which is resting inwardly; and the Day of rest is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

No doubt they praise one another every Saturday, as they scornfully look upon all others doing work as heathen and infidels, even as do the Jews obeying outwardly Moses of old.

Judaizers, who give lip service to the faith of Jesus while outwardly keeping the law of Moses.

 

[theefaith]

... best guess (since I am not him): The same way anyone else knows Jesus.

(opinions to the contrary not withstanding, there is only ONE door and ONE path, so everyone enters the same way.)

Good now tell me how?

 

[atpollard]

Good now tell me how?

I had assumed you already WERE a Christian and wanted to discuss Christianity.
Are you REALLY claiming to not know Jesus and asking for guidance?
If not, then your question is dishonest and you should be ashamed for asking it with malice as an attempt to sow discord.

If you know Jesus, then feel free to tell how YOU know Jesus ... and make whatever point it is that you want to make.

For me ... John 6:41-51 and Romans 10:8-13 and Ephesians 2:1-10 and John 10:22-30 and Ephesians 1:3-14 and Romans 8:26-39 ... but it all started with a deeply personal event most similar to Acts of the Apostles 9:3-6 and Acts of the Apostles 16:14 and Revelation 3:20 (a matter between me and God that is not fodder for whatever clever trap you think you are setting to score a meaningless debate point).

 

[theefaith]

I had assumed you already WERE a Christian and wanted to discuss Christianity.
Are you REALLY claiming to not know Jesus and asking for guidance?
If not, then your question is dishonest and you should be ashamed for asking it with malice as an attempt to sow discord.

If you know Jesus, then feel free to tell how YOU know Jesus ... and make whatever point it is that you want to make.

For me ... John 6:41-51 and Romans 10:8-13 and Ephesians 2:1-10 and John 10:22-30 and Ephesians 1:3-14 and Romans 8:26-39 ... but it all started with a deeply personal event most similar to Acts of the Apostles 9:3-6 and Acts of the Apostles 16:14 and Revelation 3:20 (a matter between me and God that is not fodder for whatever clever trap you think you are setting to score a meaningless debate point).

most of these refer to redemption not justification or salvation

no trap just want to be biblical

not personal and not between just you and God

no personal covenants no personal saviors or salvation

jude 1:3 common salvation
Lk 2:10-11 Common savior for all people

 

[atpollard]

most of these refer to redemption not justification or salvation

Distinction without difference ... noted.

no trap just want to be biblical

Then post Scripture and exegete.
You didn't, so I do not believe you.
Actions speak louder than words.

not personal and not between just you and God
no personal covenants no personal saviors or salvation

Unsupported opinions of "salvation by Denomination" ... noted and rejected.

Show me ONE VERSE where God grants anything to Peter's successors ... one "biblical" version of "and successors" ... [hint: it doesn't exist].
That is why even the other Catholic Churches walked out on ROME when the Bishop of Rome made a power play for Political Dominance. It took another 500-1000 years (depending on when you start counting the Schism) for Roman corruption to reach APOSTASY that demanded even the RCC reform itself. [Study the Catholic Reformation and the Council of Trent for more information].

Romans 10:8-13 [NLT]

8 In fact, it says,
“The message is very close at hand;
it is on your lips and in your heart.”
And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.” 12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved.”​

All about SALVATION (saved).
All about PERSONAL.
All about YOU and GOD.
NOTHING about the RCC or the pope or a priest.
Someone lied, either the RCC or the APOSTLE PAUL ... I know where my money is.

 

[theefaith]

Distinction without difference ... noted.


Then post Scripture and exegete.
You didn't, so I do not believe you.
Actions speak louder than words.


Unsupported opinions of "salvation by Denomination" ... noted and rejected.

Show me ONE VERSE where God grants anything to Peter's successors ... one "biblical" version of "and successors" ... [hint: it doesn't exist].
That is why even the other Catholic Churches walked out on ROME when the Bishop of Rome made a power play for Political Dominance. It took another 500-1000 years (depending on when you start counting the Schism) for Roman corruption to reach APOSTASY that demanded even the RCC reform itself. [Study the Catholic Reformation and the Council of Trent for more information].

Romans 10:8-13 [NLT]

8 In fact, it says,
“The message is very close at hand;
it is on your lips and in your heart.”
And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.” 12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved.”​

All about SALVATION (saved).
All about PERSONAL.
All about YOU and GOD.
NOTHING about the RCC or the pope or a priest.
Someone lied, either the RCC or the APOSTLE PAUL ... I know where my money is.

not saved? Matt 24:13
Can you be saved without a priest?

 

[theefaith]

Distinctions

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!

 

[theefaith]

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments




Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the age, so the successors must remain until the end of the age) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)


Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Matthias succeeded him as apostle

acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Isa 22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!

 

[robert derrick]

"So, when Paul referred to the law as "carnal" in one place and then referred to the law as "holy, just, and good" in another place, he was talking about the same law..and so Paul was a schizo."

The only place Scripture appears to call the law carnal is in Heb 7: Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

And it is the commandment that is carnal, not the law, and so commandments in the law are carnal. The one commanding the Levitical priesthood. The one commanding circumcision. The one commanding the Sabbath.

 

[robert derrick]

"So, when Paul referred to the law as "carnal" in one place and then referred to the law as "holy, just, and good" in another place, he was talking about the same law..and so Paul was a schizo."

Heb 7:16 identifies the commandment ordaining the Levitical priesthood, as being a 'carnal' commandment. Not as in being immoral or unspiritual, but as in commanding an outward performance and service to God.

Therefore, any such commandment requiring outward performance as prescribed by law in certain manner is a 'carnal' commandment, i.e. carnally performed.

The law of circumcision and sabbath keeping is therefore the law of a carnal commandment, to be obeyed outwardly and to be seen physically, carnally.

And such law of carnal commandment is not for the priesthood nor the law of Christ, but is with the oath of God to His Son, and to them that believe Him.

Scripture is revealing to us that the main difference between the Old and the New is that we have no more need of a carnal commandment and ordinances, to be performed outwardly as prescribed by law, but rather by oath we are made priests of God and serve Him even as Jesus: by inward faith of the Spirit of God.

And so circumcision of God is no longer of the flesh, commanded with carnal obedience, but is inwardly of the Spirit of Life, commanded by the law of the Spirit. Likewise, the Sabbath is no longer a carnal commandment, but rather we come to that Day of rest even as God did, not by the law of a carnal commandment, but by faith and rest in the Spirit.

God did not rest on the 7th day by carnal commandment, and neither do we in Christ.

Those that yet obey outwardly such carnal commandments of old written in the law of Moses, are therefore by definition of Scripture: carnal.

They declare themselves 'moral' by keeping a carnal commandment with an outward show of the flesh.

And it was this very same law of a carnal commandment that was nailed to the cross. And Paul condemned the puffed up and fleshy-minded will worshippers, who made show of humility by law, carnally keeping a carnal commandment and demanding that others do likewise.

Therefore: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days."

This is the only Scripture that sabbath is even mentioned in the New Testament of the risen Christ and our Saviour.

Sabbath commanders are carnal commanders puffed up and fleshy-minded in their willful open shows of Pharisaical display:

"Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity."

 

[robert derrick]

"So, when Paul referred to the law as "carnal" in one place and then referred to the law as "holy, just, and good" in another place, he was talking about the same law..So Paul was schizo."

There is one law (Lev 7:7), even as there is one God. God's law is one. All of it is in one law. None of it is separate from the other, even as the Father and the Son are one and not separate from the other.

To say that there is a Mosaic and Moral law separate from one another is to break Scripture that there is one law, as well as saying that the Mosaic law is not moral or amoral.

Which is why such a scriptureless carnally minded person would say that the law is carnal, or that the law of God was separated into spiritual and carnal.

Now that is schizo indeed.

 

[robert derrick]

So, when Paul referred to the law as "carnal" in one place and then referred to the law as "holy, just, and good" in another place, he was talking about the same law...therefore, Paul is schitzo. Got it.

Even as the carnal ordinances of the Levitical priesthood was imposed upon the people, until Christ to come, so is the carnal commandment of the Sabbath imposed upon the people, after Christ is come.

There is no Scripture at all in the New Testament of the risen Saviour pertaining to Sabbath keeping, but only the one Scripture pertaining to not judging believers according to the Sabbath. (Col 2)

Sabbath commanders demand keeping the carnal Sabbath without Scripture, and they judge others carnally after the Sabbath against Scripture.

 

[Gregory]

what, you only worship God on a certain mountain at a certain time for 40 minutes a week? and that's superior in righteousness to giving your whole life as a living sacrifice, making yourself the servant of all who ask of you? would you help someone push a broken down van off the road if it meant being late to meet your friends for lunch after what you call 'service' ?
have you read John 4? do you think 'in spirit and in truth' means the music has to be groovy?

here is my position: refusing to help the person you work for 'because sabbath' ain't something to boast about. not according to scripture.

ceasing from your own works ((Hebrews 4:10)) is doing someone else's work. God says doing His work is not refusing those who ask you, in fact, God's work is doing more than you're asked.

Again, can you do both. Go to church and worship God, and help who is in need on the same day. And I will add to that, worship God all the other days of the week too, in your heart and by your works.

I believe God expects you to carve out a few moments to formally worship him on a certain mountain, at a certain time for 40 minutes a week. Then keep him in your heart and mind every day too. I get it, somehow you have no feeling for formal worship, but I do.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

NOTHING about the RCC or the pope or a priest.
Someone lied, either the RCC or the APOSTLE PAUL ... I know where my money is.

Amen! Precious friend, atpollard - Exactly why I posted to him,
but I later thought of THIS part, which I AM SURE "he will Also deny"!:

thee faith said: "No apostles no church no salvation" But:

What he Really means, in RCC verbiage {Disregarding BIBLE Alone!}:
THEIR "chain of command" = God, {Another?} Jesus, pope, tradition,
magesterium, THEIR {earthly} church, cardinals, bishops, and priests
{ALL mediatorS}, BETWEEN ALL other men and women, or NO salvation!

Thus DENYING God's Pure, Holy, Plain And Clear Scriptures!:

"For there is One God, and ONE Mediator Between God and man,
The Man {The TRUE} CHRIST JESUS!" (1_Timothy 2 : 5 KJB!)
+
The TRUE "Chain of Command!":

1Co_11:3 "But I would have you know, that THE HEAD
of every man IS CHRIST; and the head of the woman is
the man; and The Head of Christ IS God."

I know "where my TREASURE IS" Amen?

Thanks for listening, And Please Be Very Richly Blessed!
God's Simple Will