Jesus never said he was God Almighty

[Ronald David Bruno]

Did Jesus speak and claim he was divine, let alone God Almighty? A clear resounding No! This something to ponder over.

Jesus said in plain view he was the son of man and never a divine being.

Can we believe scripture or not, or shall we believe in several noted early writers that provided their own opinions and concluded for Jesus Christ, that he was not only divine, but also God himself? Is there a dilemma here?

These early writers evidently had a real impact into the 4th century when Constantine and the bishops voted that Jesus was indeed God and divine?

Image you are a visitor from Mars with much more intellect and led by the spirit of God. You lay all this data out in front of you to search for the truth of Jesus the Lord and Savior from Earth. Would you conclude and side with these mentioned early writers or the God-breathed words of God?

Is it that most people, including these early writers wanted to believe that for Jesus to succeed n his mission on earth and never sin he MUST HAVE BEEN GOD and then is GOD TODAY, even though it does not make any sense at all. Is Jesus in heaven today God Almighty or not? We cannot change our minds if we said he was GOD on earth and then say he is not now. He is at the right side of God Almighty is he not? So how do we reconcile this apparent dilemma?

Is this logical scriptural thinking?

Once a lie or err is introduced even well-intentioned, it grows with more forced errors to support the base lie.

My thinking and logic is, it went down as at least a six-layered structure of errors with a lot of frosting built on sand:

1. The early writers were in error about Jesus and gave their personal opinions about what they thought Jesus was, his nature. Once this error gained momentum it eventually gained official approval as fact, especially by the 4th century.

Since then, it (Jesus = God) had to be defended with a vengeance for the credibility of the entire fledgling religious movement.

2. So, the supporters of this err had to invent the concept of incarnation to say God birthed himself into a human being. A wild concept. Sounds pagan.

3. Then the concept of hypostasis was invented to now say Jesus was both divine and human, the fusing of two natures as one spirit.

Now they had to glue it somehow to scripture to give it the appearance as truth.

4. They had to find some part of scripture as its touchstone of their newly acquired lie. They forced a new meaning into John 1:1-2 and the FIRST part of John 1:14 to add a new secondary meaning for the Greek word ‘logos.’ In all scripture ‘logos’ has one consistent meaning: it has always meant a kind of plan, logic, or purpose and never a person, let alone Jesus. Check it out for yourself. Yes, Jesus is called the ‘word of God’ in a couple of places in scripture, although this simply means he was the instrument to execute and complete the ‘plan’ logos of salvation originated by God.

5. Then, because of this third tiered lie, they had to now say Jesus preexisted at the beginning of time, I guess.

6. Then because of the first 5 structured lies, more lies in the form of many, many writings and sermons are still finishing this structure today. They are just window dressings composed of many cherry-picked scriptures and blind interpretations to clue the entire structure together and make it look more credible, enticing and pleasing to the hears and eyes.

The structure of the lie that Jesus = God will all coming crashing down all in good time. It will not stand because it does not hold up as truth. It is a profound and brazen lie.

Jesus was the only born believer in God because God Almighty really conceived him, with Mary. God was surely with him and thus us! That is what Emmanuel means by the way. It does not naively mean Jesus = God, as most probably the early writer thought.

Jesu was the last Adam and the first of the new creation of believers of God. Why do you think the spirit of Christ and truth was given to us? Do you think the spirit of Christ would be given to us if Jesus = God? Not! We are conforming to the image of Christ not God Almighty. It is impossible to confirm to the exact image of God! Jesus was the closest in his power and life. Jesus is the closest to God’s power in heaven. God Almighty had to bring the spirit of Christ to us. Christ could not do it alone. He ‘rode down’/used the spirit of God to get to our human hearts.

We as believers partake of the divine nature OF GOD ONLY, during our lives, THROUGH the spirit of Christ that already has divinity OF GOD in him. Jesus partakes of the spirit of DIVINITY today, so that we can partake of the same spirit of DIVINITY THROUGH him only. There is no other way. The source of divinity is and has always been from God Almighty, not Jesus. Jesus is the 1st layer user of the spiritual power of God. We as believers are the 2nd layer users, drawing off this same spiritual power through Christ.

A decent analogy is like the main grid and source of power is God Almighty. Jesus is the 1st layer of power manipulation as the step-down transformer system on the poles or on the ground to our homes. We are the home users, the users of the 2nd layer of power manipulation, drawing power off these transformers.

Jesus partook of the divinity and nature of the spirit of God since he was conceived, and then as the Christ, he possessed the ‘full’ suit of power of God after his baptism.

This is how Jesus, the Christ never sinned and completed his mission, with the power of God Almighty. He could not have succeeded without his Father, God Almighty.

People of little faith is apparently not a dated phenomenon.

What say you?


Peace and love out!

(Deu 6:4) “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
(Deu 6:5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
(Deu 6:6) And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. (ALL ESV)


Bless you,

APAK

Here's some logic for you.
Our Father calls Jesus God (Heb. 1)
He is worshipped by angels and all of Christianity (well 98% of us)
Jesus did say He is God, in His vast descriptions, and attributes. He js the only begotten Son of God..Begotten means of the same nature.
He claimed he was
The Truth, (omniscient)
The Way, (to God)
The Life, (that means source of Life)
The Bread of Life
THE God's Shepherd
The Doorway
The Resurrection
The Alpha and the Omega (eternal)
The Vine
He is our Healer
He is the Word (Logos)
GOD became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14)
He is the exact expression, illumination and glory of God.
Wherever two pray in His name He is there (omnipresent)
He is the Creator (Col. 1:16, 17)
He forgave sin (only God can forgive sin)
He forgives all sins (for those who have faith in Him). To forgive the sins of mankind for all time you must be omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.
Eternal life is promised by Him.
We are in Christ, the God of the universe - we are not in an angel.
To have All authority in heaven and on earth means you are the All Mighty God.
He did not regard equality with God something that man would grasp - YOU STILL DON'T.
With this belief of yours, a relationship, worship and love of Jesus is at best dysfunctional. Since faith is a gift and this faith is in Christ, it is not possible that the Holy Spirit would lead you to these conclusions - therefore it is only logical that you have not been baptized by the Holy Spirit. Since you do not believe in the Trinity? you dont regard the Holy Spirit, our Helper/Comforter/Counselor, Who dwells in us as God either. You must be born again to have true discernment.

 

[APAK]

Here's some logic for you.
Our Father calls Jesus God (Heb. 1)
He is worshipped by angels and all of Christianity (well 98% of us)
Jesus did say He is God, in His vast descriptions, and attributes. He js the only begotten Son of God..Begotten means of the same nature.
He claimed he was
The Truth, (omniscient)
The Way, (to God)
The Life, (that means source of Life)
The Bread of Life
THE God's Shepherd
The Doorway
The Resurrection
The Alpha and the Omega (eternal)
The Vine
He is our Healer
He is the Word (Logos)
GOD became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14)
He is the exact expression, illumination and glory of God.
Wherever two pray in His name He is there (omnipresent)
He is the Creator (Col. 1:16, 17)
He forgave sin (only God can forgive sin)
He forgives all sins (for those who have faith in Him). To forgive the sins of mankind for all time you must be omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.
Eternal life is promised by Him.
We are in Christ, the God of the universe - we are not in an angel.
To have All authority in heaven and on earth means you are the All Mighty God.
He did not regard equality with God something that man would grasp - YOU STILL DON'T.
With this belief of yours, a relationship, worship and love of Jesus is at best dysfunctional. Since faith is a gift and this faith is in Christ, it is not possible that the Holy Spirit would lead you to these conclusions - therefore it is only logical that you have not been baptized by the Holy Spirit. Since you do not believe in the Trinity? you dont regard the Holy Spirit, our Helper/Comforter/Counselor, Who dwells in us as God either. You must be born again to have true discernment.

Wow, you have it all here mate, and balled it up into sheer confusion - mostly written out as a list your own opinions from scripture to tack on the frig or something like that.

You might do yourself a favor, or some real good, if you would start with one area and thought in scripture and attach, not force, other similar scripture to it to form some real support for your arguments. Of course this take time and much effort.

Blessings,

APAK

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Wow, you have it all here mate, and balled it up into sheer confusion - mostly written out as a list your own opinions from scripture to tack on the frig or something like that.

You might do yourself a favor, or some real good, if you would start with one area and thought in scripture and attach, not force, other similar scripture to it to form some real support for your arguments. Of course this take time and much effort.

Blessings,

APAK

You are the one who is confused. I have spent what would amount to chapters, going into detail on this topic with non-trinitarians. Your response is always the same, denial. So I thought I would just summarize the main points. They define the key attritubes of God.
What attributes of God that you don't think Jesus has?
Or what do you think God has done that Jesus has not?
Why would God, Who is Sovereign, let mankind be deceived about the Trinity if it was wrong? He sent Luther to correct and rebuke some things abiut the Catholic Church. Why didn't he include that with his 95 Theses and say "Oh, in addition to all that, the doctrine of the Trinity is wrong"? He is a powerful God Who wants His Word to be accurately understood. By this, you render Him weak and not in control.

 

[APAK]

You are the one who is confused. I have spent what would amount to chapters, going into detail on this topic with non-trinitarians. Your response is always the same, denial. So I thought I would just summarize the main points. They define the key attritubes of God.
What attributes of God that you don't think Jesus has?
Or what do you think God has done that Jesus has not?
Why would God, Who is Sovereign, let mankind be deceived about the Trinity if it was wrong? He sent Luther to correct and rebuke some things abiut the Catholic Church. Why didn't he include that with his 95 Theses and say "Oh, in addition to all that, the doctrine of the Trinity is wrong"? He is a powerful God Who wants His Word to be accurately understood. By this, you render Him weak and not in control.

Well Ron to unconfuse a bit I reckon....Here's a belief list that would be on my frig:

1. God, the Father is NOT human or a man - Hosea 11:9; Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Deut 6:4
2. Yahshua died although God, his Father did not die and cannot die - Mark 15:33-34
3. God, the Father raised Yahshua his Son, to life from his death - 1 Corith 15:12 and 14
4. Yahshua cannot do anything on his own. - John 5:30
5. Death came by the first man, Adam and redemption came by another man, the 2nd Adam - 1 Corith 15:21
6. Yahshua is the Son of God, his Father - Matt 16: 15-17.
7. There is one God (the Father) and only one mediator, his Son Yahshua. - 1 Tim 2:5-6
8. Yahshua has only one God (the Father) - Mark 12:29; John 20:17; Eph 1:15-17
9. Yahshua did NOT anoint himself. God his Father anointed him. - Heb 5:4-5
10. Yahshua does NOT know what God, his Father, knows - Matt 24:34-36
11. Yahshua has a different will than God, his Father - Matt 26:39
12. Yahshua thanks God, his Father - John 11:41-42
13. Yahshua said that only God, his Father is good - Luke 18:18-19
14. Today, Yahshua and God, his Father have still two different natures. Act 7:55-56
15. There is only one God of all creation, the Father. 1 Corith 8:5-6
16. We praise only one God, the Father of Yahshua, who is our Messiah - Eph 1:3
17. The Father, God lives in Yahshua and are one, as Yahshua lives in me, we are also one - John 17:21-22
18. Yashua said that eternal life is knowing God, his Father who conceived him or sent him into this world (for his purpose)- John 17:3
19: God, the Father has placed all things (the things he created and are in existence) under Yahshua's feet. Left him in charge. - 1 Corith 15:27

Note: you can substitute God the Father, for YHWH and visa versa
you can also substitute Yahshua for Joshua or Jesus.

I hope this clears things up a little bit and without even adding in the pagan incarnation and hypostatic union concepts

APAK

 

[theefaith]

Well Ron to unconfuse a bit I reckon....Here's a belief list that would be on my frig:

1. God, the Father is NOT human or a man - Hosea 11:9; Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Deut 6:4
2. Yahshua died although God, his Father did not die and cannot die - Mark 15:33-34
3. God, the Father raised Yahshua his Son, to life from his death - 1 Corith 15:12 and 14
4. Yahshua cannot do anything on his own. - John 5:30
5. Death came by the first man, Adam and redemption came by another man, the 2nd Adam - 1 Corith 15:21
6. Yahshua is the Son of God, his Father - Matt 16: 15-17.
7. There is one God (the Father) and only one mediator, his Son Yahshua. - 1 Tim 2:5-6
8. Yahshua has only one God (the Father) - Mark 12:29; John 20:17; Eph 1:15-17
9. Yahshua did NOT anoint himself. God his Father anointed him. - Heb 5:4-5
10. Yahshua does NOT know what God, his Father, knows - Matt 24:34-36
11. Yahshua has a different will than God, his Father - Matt 26:39
12. Yahshua thanks God, his Father - John 11:41-42
13. Yahshua said that only God, his Father is good - Luke 18:18-19
14. Today, Yahshua and God, his Father have still two different natures. Act 7:55-56
15. There is only one God of all creation, the Father. 1 Corith 8:5-6
16. We praise only one God, the Father of Yahshua, who is our Messiah - Eph 1:3
17. The Father, God lives in Yahshua and are one, as Yahshua lives in me, we are also one - John 17:21-22
18. Yashua said that eternal life is knowing God, his Father who conceived him or sent him into this world (for his purpose)- John 17:3
19: God, the Father has placed all things (the things he created and are in existence) under Yahshua's feet. Left him in charge. - 1 Corith 15:27

Note: you can substitute God the Father, for YHWH and visa versa
you can also substitute Yahshua for Joshua or Jesus.

I hope this clears things up a little bit and without even adding in the pagan incarnation and hypostatic union concepts

APAK

that’s modalism a condemned heresy

Jesus is God!

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Heb 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Jn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

His Angels! God’s Angels!

Isaiah 6:3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Hosts of Angels!

Adoration is due to God alone!

Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Only God can work miracles

Matthew 8:27
But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!


Jn 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Jesus is Lord)

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jn 20:28 my Lord and my God!

Jesus declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31).

John the baptist prophet of the most high? Lk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Prepare the way of the Lord Lk 1:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

The Lord is Jesus and a Jesus is Lord, One God in three persons!

Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God almighty!

Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

They worshiped Jesus and only God can be worshiped!

Matt 5: 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Only God have the commandments only God can change them!

Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Only God has this power!

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Only God!

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Only God can be this!

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Only God!

 

[theefaith]

Well Ron to unconfuse a bit I reckon....Here's a belief list that would be on my frig:

1. God, the Father is NOT human or a man - Hosea 11:9; Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Deut 6:4
2. Yahshua died although God, his Father did not die and cannot die - Mark 15:33-34
3. God, the Father raised Yahshua his Son, to life from his death - 1 Corith 15:12 and 14
4. Yahshua cannot do anything on his own. - John 5:30
5. Death came by the first man, Adam and redemption came by another man, the 2nd Adam - 1 Corith 15:21
6. Yahshua is the Son of God, his Father - Matt 16: 15-17.
7. There is one God (the Father) and only one mediator, his Son Yahshua. - 1 Tim 2:5-6
8. Yahshua has only one God (the Father) - Mark 12:29; John 20:17; Eph 1:15-17
9. Yahshua did NOT anoint himself. God his Father anointed him. - Heb 5:4-5
10. Yahshua does NOT know what God, his Father, knows - Matt 24:34-36
11. Yahshua has a different will than God, his Father - Matt 26:39
12. Yahshua thanks God, his Father - John 11:41-42
13. Yahshua said that only God, his Father is good - Luke 18:18-19
14. Today, Yahshua and God, his Father have still two different natures. Act 7:55-56
15. There is only one God of all creation, the Father. 1 Corith 8:5-6
16. We praise only one God, the Father of Yahshua, who is our Messiah - Eph 1:3
17. The Father, God lives in Yahshua and are one, as Yahshua lives in me, we are also one - John 17:21-22
18. Yashua said that eternal life is knowing God, his Father who conceived him or sent him into this world (for his purpose)- John 17:3
19: God, the Father has placed all things (the things he created and are in existence) under Yahshua's feet. Left him in charge. - 1 Corith 15:27

Note: you can substitute God the Father, for YHWH and visa versa
you can also substitute Yahshua for Joshua or Jesus.

I hope this clears things up a little bit and without even adding in the pagan incarnation and hypostatic union concepts

APAK

pagan means worshiping creation

Christ is both God and Man
Two natures
Two wills

 

[APAK]

that’s modalism a condemned heresy

Jesus is God!

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Heb 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Jn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

His Angels! God’s Angels!

Isaiah 6:3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Hosts of Angels!

Adoration is due to God alone!

Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Only God can work miracles

Matthew 8:27
But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!


Jn 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Jesus is Lord)

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jn 20:28 my Lord and my God!

Jesus declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31).

John the baptist prophet of the most high? Lk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Prepare the way of the Lord Lk 1:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

The Lord is Jesus and a Jesus is Lord, One God in three persons!

Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God almighty!

Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

They worshiped Jesus and only God can be worshiped!

Matt 5: 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Only God have the commandments only God can change them!

Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Only God has this power!

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Only God!

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Only God can be this!

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Only God!

I have to say you are the most. (top 5) incoherent poster I've seen to date.. .You just keep blindly posting the same or similar canned message(s) to all posters. What are you trying to say? If it is that you are a Catholic and love the Trinity and Jesus is God, I got that mate many posts back....so what is new with you? What do you bring to the table of edification? I have to admit it is hard if you are a Trinitarian, based on my experience.

I know you cannot write a commentary on a verse of scripture to save your life...and that would interest me greatly....

just saying, make some sense will you?

APAK

 

[theefaith]

I have to say you are the most. (top 5) incoherent poster I've seen to date.. .You just keep blindly posting the same or similar canned message(s) to all posters. What are you trying to say? If it is that you are a Catholic and love the Trinity and Jesus is God, I got that mate many posts back....so what is new with you? What do you bring to the table of edification? I have to admit it is hard if you are a Trinitarian, based on my experience.

I know you cannot write a commentary on a verse of scripture to save your life...and that would interest me greatly....

just saying, make some sense will you?

APAK

I would prefer to talk on Mary the church and the sacraments

do you believe in the Virgin birth?

 

[APAK]

I would prefer to talk on Mary the church and the sacraments

do you believe in the Virgin birth?

Yes I do, although I do not make an idol out of Mary, at all. You most probably were raised and believe in the traditional teaching of your Church and cannot help look at Mary as more that a mere special chosen human woman of God to birth our Savior? I may be wrong? I do know of your religion, quite, just say fairy well these days...APAK

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Well Ron to unconfuse a bit I reckon....Here's a belief list that would be on my frig:

1. God, the Father is NOT human or a man - Hosea 11:9; Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Deut 6:4
2. Yahshua died although God, his Father did not die and cannot die - Mark 15:33-34
3. God, the Father raised Yahshua his Son, to life from his death - 1 Corith 15:12 and 14
4. Yahshua cannot do anything on his own. - John 5:30
5. Death came by the first man, Adam and redemption came by another man, the 2nd Adam - 1 Corith 15:21
6. Yahshua is the Son of God, his Father - Matt 16: 15-17.
7. There is one God (the Father) and only one mediator, his Son Yahshua. - 1 Tim 2:5-6
8. Yahshua has only one God (the Father) - Mark 12:29; John 20:17; Eph 1:15-17
9. Yahshua did NOT anoint himself. God his Father anointed him. - Heb 5:4-5
10. Yahshua does NOT know what God, his Father, knows - Matt 24:34-36
11. Yahshua has a different will than God, his Father - Matt 26:39
12. Yahshua thanks God, his Father - John 11:41-42
13. Yahshua said that only God, his Father is good - Luke 18:18-19
14. Today, Yahshua and God, his Father have still two different natures. Act 7:55-56
15. There is only one God of all creation, the Father. 1 Corith 8:5-6
16. We praise only one God, the Father of Yahshua, who is our Messiah - Eph 1:3
17. The Father, God lives in Yahshua and are one, as Yahshua lives in me, we are also one - John 17:21-22
18. Yashua said that eternal life is knowing God, his Father who conceived him or sent him into this world (for his purpose)- John 17:3
19: God, the Father has placed all things (the things he created and are in existence) under Yahshua's feet. Left him in charge. - 1 Corith 15:27

Note: you can substitute God the Father, for YHWH and visa versa
you can also substitute Yahshua for Joshua or Jesus.

I hope this clears things up a little bit and without even adding in the pagan incarnation and hypostatic union concepts

APAK

Yes, it is clear that you spend a lot of time and focus on degrading Jesus, a dishonor and disgrace.
IF YOU dishonor the Son, you dishonor the Father.
None of those scriptures contradict the deity of Christ. They do at times refer to the man, Jesus, not His spiritual essence, which you fail to grasp. This is why we refer to Him as the God/man.
Do you think the Holy Spirit is a person and as well God? Because the Father sent another Helper to guide us, Who lives inside us and Who has all the attributes of God as well. This is a fact of course only if you are born again.
The man Jesus died, not His spirit. His spirit existed since the begginning with the Father and Holy Spirit (Elohim).
Jesus raised Himself from the dead in harmony with the Father.
John 2:19
John 10:18
GOD became a man. How? He emptied Himself into human flesh, relinquishing temporarily his glory - set it aside. He had the glory prior to that and it was returned to Him after His ascension. Every knee will bow to Him, He is God, is worshipped, and is given praise and thanks and honor.
Be careful, especially about what you have to say about the Holy Spirit as you answer my question!

 

[theefaith]

I have to say you are the most. (top 5) incoherent poster I've seen to date.. .You just keep blindly posting the same or similar canned message(s) to all posters. What are you trying to say? If it is that you are a Catholic and love the Trinity and Jesus is God, I got that mate many posts back....so what is new with you? What do you bring to the table of edification? I have to admit it is hard if you are a Trinitarian, based on my experience.

I know you cannot write a commentary on a verse of scripture to save your life...and that would interest me greatly....

just saying, make some sense will you?

APAK

you want an explicit scripture stating the Holy Trinity? Ok

Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

you yourself showed where the apostles with the authority of Jesus Christ in holy apostolic council bound on earth this doctrine there is one God three persons Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is bound in heaven forever! Believe it!
It is Christian Faith, de fide thee faith, catholic and divine faith, the truth!
Dogma, the teaching of the apostles is without error Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments the abundant life of grace!

 

[theefaith]

Yes I do, although I do not make an idol out of Mary, at all. You most probably were raised and believe in the traditional teaching of your Church and cannot help look at Mary as more that a mere special chosen human woman of God to birth our Savior? I may be wrong? I do know of your religion, quite, just say fairy well these days...APAK

No idols are forbidden, only God may be worshiped and offered sacrifice

Biblical Mary:

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And king of heaven so Mary is queen of heaven

 

[APAK]

Yes, it is clear that you spend a lot of time and focus on degrading Jesus, a dishonor and disgrace.
IF YOU dishonor the Son, you dishonor the Father.
None of those scriptures contradict the deity of Christ. They do at times refer to the man, Jesus, not His spiritual essence, which you fail to grasp. This is why we refer to Him as the God/man.
Do you think the Holy Spirit is a person and as well God? Because the Father sent another Helper to guide us, Who lives inside us and Who has all the attributes of God as well. This is a fact of course only if you are born again.
The man Jesus died, not His spirit. His spirit existed since the begginning with the Father and Holy Spirit (Elohim).
Jesus raised Himself from the dead in harmony with the Father.
John 2:19
John 10:18
GOD became a man. How? He emptied Himself into human flesh, relinquishing temporarily his glory - set it aside. He had the glory prior to that and it was returned to Him after His ascension. Every knee will bow to Him, He is God, is worshipped, and is given praise and thanks and honor.
Be careful, especially about what you have to say about the Holy Spirit as you answer my question!

Degrading Christ did I? Are you sure you have not an axe to grind here? Just look at the list and check out the scripture and see if I'm degrading...and then you add in dishonor into the mix..sounds like an emotional appeal and outburst


And then you say my list supports the deity of Christ...wo horse...are you kidding me....you have a different lens that I.

..and then you summarize by saying, we are the collective that calls Jesus the godman.....you really make a lot of sense Ron

And then you seem to think I suggested that the Spirit of God is a separate person, as you do of course. This Spirit belongs to the Father, it is his own intrinsic Spirit he extends into creation and this world of men and women.

The Father used his own Spirit to send the spirit of truth to us, who is Christ's spirit actually...
and then you jump in and say that Jesus' spirit existed with the Father 'in the beginning'.....you cannot show this in scripture as many have tried and failed.

Ron do not be deceived and misinterpret John 2:19. Christ was speaking of his Father's help/using his power in raising him from the dead. Have yo ever said to someone, I will have to do this or that, knowing that you meant you will have to get some help from the boss in getting this done. You work as a team in the background without everyone having to know it. The Father and Son were one. The Father lived in his Son...

And then in John 10:18 you do not care to read and understand every last word. Christ was allowed to die by his own will/authority because of his Father's permission. And also the Father gave him permission to be raised from the dead. The Father did all the work. The power of his Father came into him to bring him back to life. If the Father denied him life again, then the Son could do nothing about it. That was how intense his love and trust for his Father was, as Isaac with Abraham (a shadow or figure of Christ and his Father).

The Son just obeyed with faith and yielded his own will to his Father.

..You cannot deny the other scripture I provided on the same subject, that explicitly says that the Father raised him from the dead. You just choose to blindly ignore this truth to support your deity of Christ theory.

And then you go on to recite a futile and erroneous explanation of Phil 2:7 to support your impossible theory of Christ. How did the Son empty himself of his divine nature, where did he keep it in storage, and when and how did he get it all back? This is all nonsense. If you cared to know the context of this verse, then read before it and see that the writer was imploring believer's to have the mind and will of Christ. How can we have the mind and will of a deity? No, we are to have the mind of Christ. the man, by yielding or empty our own minds and will over to the Father via the Spirit of Christ. This is the simple and uncongested and the uncomplicated biblical explanation.

And what is it with your last statement and warning...I don't get it mate..

And this was essentially your post back to me based on my scriptural frig list...did I get at least the scripture passages right and aligned with each of my statement, at least.....? I guess that did not interest you in the least...

I hope and pray that one of these days you will sit back and allow the spirit of God to lead you into understanding scripture, without human mental brute force and the stubborn obstacle we call the human will..

Blessings,

APAK

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Degrading Christ did I?

He is God and you put him on a lower level than God, an angel, Michael. That is degrading him. That is not honoring Him as God Almighty. It is an extremely lower grade. Not acknowledging His Grace, which is the Grace of God is a dis-grace. You are making a mistake.

This Spirit belongs to the Father, it is his own intrinsic Spirit he extends into creation and this world of men and women.

I wouldn't have a problem with that only scripture states that the Father will send "another Helper.

The Father used his own Spirit to send the spirit of truth to us, who is Christ's spirit actually...

That is the Triune God in your own words ... and you are confused about it. That's okay.

Jesus' spirit existed with the Father 'in the beginning'.....you cannot show this in scripture as many have tried and failed.

John 1:1-14 states that in the beginning the Word was with God, was God, became flesh and dwelt amoung us. Logos is the exact expression, illumination, knowledge, with all His attributes.

And then in John 10:18 you do not care to read and understand every last word. Christ was allowed to die by his own will/authority because of his Father's permission. And also the Father gave him permission to be raised from the dead. The Father did all the work. The power of his Father came into him to bring him back to life. If the Father denied him life again, then the Son could do nothing about it. That was how intense his love and trust for his Father was, as Isaac with Abraham (a shadow or figure of Christ and his Father)

Denial is often explained away.

The Son just obeyed with faith and yielded his own will to his Father.

True.

.You cannot deny the other scripture I provided on the same subject, that explicitly says that the Father raised him from the dead. You just choose to blindly ignore this truth to support your deity of Christ theory.

Gid raised Jesus from the dead, all thise scriptures are in harmony and support each other.

How did the Son empty himself of his divine nature, where did he keep it in storage, and when and how did he get it all back?

Imagine that only one cup of water existed. One third if thay cup is pour into anither vessel. The two thirds is still water as well as the water in the other vessel. But hey, I thunkbthat us much to advanced for you to ponder. Jesus will explain it to you Himself ... or not.

Phil. 2:6 ( In the Amplified version for people who just don't get it)

"who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it];

 

[APAK]

He is God and you put him on a lower level than God, an angel, Michael. That is degrading him. That is not honoring Him as God Almighty. It is an extremely lower grade. Not acknowledging His Grace, which is the Grace of God is a dis-grace. You are making a mistake.


I wouldn't have a problem with that only scripture states that the Father will send "another Helper.


That is the Triune God in your own words ... and you are confused about it. That's okay.


John 1:1-14 states that in the beginning the Word was with God, was God, became flesh and dwelt amoung us. Logos is the exact expression, illumination, knowledge, with all His attributes.



Denial is often explained away.


True.


Gid raised Jesus from the dead, all thise scriptures are in harmony and support each other.


Imagine that only one cup of water existed. One third if thay cup is pour into anither vessel. The two thirds is still water as well as the water in the other vessel. But hey, I thunkbthat us much to advanced for you to ponder. Jesus will explain it to you Himself ... or not.

Phil. 2:6 ( In the Amplified version for people who just don't get it)

"who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it];

Not buying into your 1/3 cup of water analogy..Great Day Ron

APAK

 

[Wrangler]

Imagine that only one cup of water existed. One third if thay cup is pour into anither vessel.

The trinity is not in the Bible. The absence of this as an explicit teaching is sufficient proof that the HS is not God and Jesus is not God.

 

[Wrangler]

Our Father calls Jesus God (Heb. 1)

Totally untrue. Hebrews 1 quotes Psalms, which states in modern lingo, "My Son, the throne of your Father (throne o God), will endure forever.

It's so funny how trinitarians attempt to make up for quality of texts with quantity. Hence the single verse challenge thread.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Not buying into your 1/3 cup of water analogy..Great Day Ron

APAK

Have you been baptized with water? Ask to be baptized by the Holy Spirit, the Father sent Him to guide you on It all truth. HE IS WILL HELP YOU.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The trinity is not in the Bible. The absence of this as an explicit teaching is sufficient proof that the HS is not God and Jesus is not God.

Hold to your belief.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It's so funny how trinitarians attempt to make up for quality of texts with quantity. Hence the single verse challenge thread.

All you can grasp from all this is laughter. Glad we could be at least entertaining.