Jesus returns, Jesus judges, the good inherit the earth, and the bad are sent to Hell "age-during"

[Spiritual Israelite]

To think Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Jeffrey Dahmer, will be part of the false claim in Universal Salvation for all?

Right. That doctrine is not only false, but completely insane. Letting these monsters off the hook who did many evil things without ever repenting of them? I guess God is okay with that, according to Patrick1966? What unbelievable nonsense the universal salvation doctrine is. It's ridiculous.

 

[Patrick1966]

Show me where it says otherwise. Your opinion without scriptural support for it means nothing to me.

So you think that a person who dies and then expresses sorrow and regret will be shunned and ignored by Jesus because why?

 

[Patrick1966]

Right. That doctrine is not only false, but completely insane. Letting these monsters off the hook who did many evil things without ever repenting of them. I guess God is okay with that? What unbelievable nonsense the universal salvation doctrine is. It's ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous as the belief in "eternal torment".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not as ridiculous as the belief in "eternal torment".

If that had something to do with people being literally tortured in some way then I would actually agree with that. But, that isn't what I believe eternal torment means. Eternal separation from God is not ridiculous at all when you consider how many opportunities God gives people to repent. If they refuse to repent repeatedly up until they day they die, you think that's fine and they should be saved, anyway? That is ridiculous and not taught anywhere in scripture. That is a heretical doctrine because it gives people free reign to sin all they want because they will end up being saved, anyway. So, live it up, people! Patrick1966 says it doesn't matter what you do, you will be saved regardless.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you think that a person who dies and then expresses sorrow and regret will be shunned and ignored by Jesus because why?

Because they didn't repent after being given many opportunities to do so while they had the chance. Why do you think scripture gives the impression that reaching the lost is so urgent? Why does it talk about today (now) being the day of salvation if it doesn't really matter when people are saved (since they will eventually be saved regardless, according to you)?

 

[Phoneman777]

Question. Since the bad people are sent to Hell for the remainder of the age mentioned in Matthew 25, why then would they later be resurrected only to be damned again?

Matthew 25:31-46 YLT

Matthew 25:31-46​

​

Young's Literal Translation​

​

​

31 `And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with him, then he shall sit upon a throne of his glory;
32 and gathered together before him shall be all the nations, and he shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the sheep from the goats,
33 and he shall set the sheep indeed on his right hand, and the goats on the left.
34 `Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
35 for I did hunger, and ye gave me to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and ye received me;
36 naked, and ye put around me; I was infirm, and ye looked after me; in prison I was, and ye came unto me.
37 `Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink?
38 and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we put around?
39 and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee?
40 `And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did [it].
41 Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
42 for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink;
43 a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.
44 `Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee?
45 `Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me.
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

It's important that we distinguish between "punish-ment" and "punish-ing" where the former denotes the end product of a process, while the latter denotes the process itself. No where do we read the wicked will endure a never-ending process of punish-ing - it is the end result of that process which is everlasting, eternal.

So, what is the punishment for sin? Death. The wicked will suffer death by fire - a process that will involve them being lit on fire, burning in agony, and finally burning up and out of existence, at which point the spirit will return to God, the body to dust and ash, and the malefactor shall be no more. They will suffer death...eternal, everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

 

[Patrick1966]

Because they didn't repent after being given many opportunities to do so while they had the chance.

So the 16-year-old kid that didn't have a father and grew up in a home with a crack-addicted mom who was shot dead while trying to carjack someone is condemned to eternal torment? Such a kid never even had a first chance, let alone a second.

 

[Patrick1966]

The "God torments people FOREVER" folks think they're special when in fact they're only blessed with faith that wasn't gifted to others and they are filled with pride. They believe in God, of course, they just don't believe in anything he says, let alone follow his commands.

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Patrick1966]

If that had something to do with people being literally tortured in some way then I would actually agree with that. But, that isn't what I believe eternal torment means. Eternal separation from God is not ridiculous at all when you consider how many opportunities God gives people to repent. If they refuse to repent repeatedly up until they day they die, you think that's fine and they should be saved, anyway? That is ridiculous and not taught anywhere in scripture. That is a heretical doctrine because it gives people free reign to sin all they want because they will end up being saved, anyway. So, live it up, people! Patrick1966 says it doesn't matter what you do, you will be saved regardless.

What does "age-during" mean to you?

Matthew 25:46
Young's Literal Translation
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'​

 

[Patrick1966]

Because they didn't repent after being given many opportunities to do so while they had the chance.

Do you also believe that Jesus condemns people who have never heard of him to Hell?

 

[jeffweeder]

You have a very narrow-minded, rigid, view of a God that has ALL of the qualities that Jesus spoke against. And your pride, ego, and self-vanity get in the way of you seeing the truth. Maybe a short trip to the Lake of Fire will help to open your eyes.

Isaiah 1:25 esv
I will turn my hand against you and will smelt away your dross as with lye and remove all your alloy.

Wow Patrick you have come on strong all of a sudden. Their are lots of posters around here that are really aggressive and quick to put words in people's mouths.

Only God knows those who are his and he alone will judge every person graciously and righteously, not wanting any to perish. Clearly some will perish and be eternally separated from the saved. Some are deluded and have no love of the truth.

Not for us to judge who should or shouldnt be saved. God alone knows the heart and has power to save.

 

[Patrick1966]

@jeffweeder Yes I recognized my error and deleted that part of my post but I guess I was too late because you quoted me.

 

[jeffweeder]

@jeffweeder Yes I recognized my error and deleted that part of my post but I guess I was too late because you quoted me.

Yes, I saw that you edited.
Thank you for your post.

 

[Patrick1966]

Yes, I saw that you edited.
Thank you for your post.

Incidentally, what I wrote pales in comparison to some of the derisive remarks made against me in this thread.

 

[Patrick1966]

How unfortunate for the Jews that God "hardened" who die in unbelief of Jesus. I guess they're getting roasted alive in the hereafter. Oh well, those are the breaks.

Romans 11:25
English Standard Version
The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[a] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

 

[ewq1938]

How unfortunate for the Jews that God "hardened" who die in unbelief of Jesus. I guess they're getting roasted alive in the hereafter. Oh well, those are the breaks.

Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Patrick1966]

Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

God hardened some of the Jews so that they would not yet believe in Jesus, right?

 

[ewq1938]

God hardened some of the Jews so that they would not yet believe in Jesus, right?

Yes.

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[Patrick1966]

Yes.

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Thank you.

Does it seem right that Jews die and are then condemned to Hell for their lack of belief when it was God's will to blind them in the first place?

 

[ewq1938]

Thank you.

Does it seem right that Jews die and are then condemned to Hell for their lack of belief when it was God's will to blind them in the first place?

It does seem right because they choose not to believe and close their eyes to the truth. God only is making their own choice remain.

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.