Jesus returns, Jesus judges, the good inherit the earth, and the bad are sent to Hell "age-during"

[ewq1938]

As John 3:16 promises, those who believe will never die. Everyone else goes to the grave and after being resurrected, some will go into the Lake of Fire but it will be temporary otherwise 1 Corinthians 15 is erroneous.

There is no such thing as temporarily going to the LOF. 1 Corinthians 15 does not contradict anything.

 

[Patrick1966]

There is no such thing as temporarily going to the LOF. 1 Corinthians 15 does not contradict anything.

You misunderstand, my brother. It's ok.

 

[ewq1938]

Not initially, but God doesn't give up.

The decision is up to people to make, not God.

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[ewq1938]

You misunderstand, my brother. It's ok.

No, you don't understand and it is NOT ok. This false teaching needs to stop.

 

[Patrick1966]

No, you don't understand and it is NOT ok. This false teaching needs to stop.

Maybe you should ask management to ban all believers that claim that God will eventually reconcile all men to himself. Furthermore, perhaps you should be the only one permitted to post since you alone have a complete and infallible understanding of God and his word.

 

[ewq1938]

Maybe you should ask management to ban all believers that claim that God will eventually reconcile all men to himself. Furthermore, perhaps you should be the only one permitted to post since you alone have a complete and infallible understanding of God and his word.

What you are employing is a logical fallacy known as Exaggeration, also with another known as An appeal to ridicule. You do this to hide the fact that you teach the unscriptural doctrine of Universalism.

 

[Patrick1966]

What you are employing is a logical fallacy known as Exaggeration, also with another known as An appeal to ridicule. You do this to hide the fact that you teach the unscriptural doctrine of Universalism.

It's scriptural but you ignore that scripture because you are married to the theology of eternal damnation. Your pride prevents you from knowing the truth, let alone acknowledging it.

 

[ewq1938]

It's scriptural but you ignore that scripture because you are married to the theology of eternal damnation. Your pride prevents you from knowing the truth, let alone acknowledging it.

My beliefs are based on the bible while yours are not.

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

One is either saved or damned. There isn't a "damned for a temporary time" as you teach. (without any scripture to support it)

 

[Patrick1966]

(without any scripture to support it)

I keep providing this (and other) scriptures and you ignore them all.

Matthew 25:46
Young's Literal Translation
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

 

[ewq1938]

I keep providing this (and other) scriptures and you ignore them all.

Matthew 25:46
Young's Literal Translation
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

That doesn't support anything you are teaching, I mean age-teaching since you prefer weird age-grammar.

 

[Patrick1966]

That doesn't support anything you are teaching, I mean age-teaching since you prefer weird age-grammar.

That's what the ORIGINAL scripture said. Your problem is with the disciples of Matthew.

 

[ewq1938]

That's what the ORIGINAL scripture said. Your problem is with the disciples of Matthew.

Are you talking about the age-original? I age-like the disciples of age-Matthew.

 

[Zao is life]

1 Corinthians 15:22-28

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

"Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation." John 5:29 (the words of Jesus).

Notice the word condemnation in John 5:29 above (which is what Jesus Himself said) and compare it with what Jesus Himself said:

18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his deeds may be made known, that they have been worked in God.

So Jesus not only tells us that all will be made alive (resurrected), but He also teaches us that those who do not believe will be raised unto condemnation.

 

[Zao is life]

1 Timothy 4:10 esv
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

It doesn't mean that all people will believe, so it doesn't mean that all people will be saved.

If Paul meant all people will be saved then he would not have qualified it by mentioning those who believe. The word translated as "especially" in English is malista which can be translated in various ways. In modern English we would probably say "of all people, i.e those who believe".

Your claim negates the plain meaning of Jesus' own words:

"He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his deeds may be made known, that they have been worked in God. John 3.

Jesus died for all people, but only through faith in His Word can anyone be saved. God has done HIs part. Individuals have nothing left to do except believe. The word you believe in my opinion is another way of saying, "you will not surely die".. except that in the case of the word you believe, it's "you will be saved from the consequences of Adam's sin and unbelief regardless of whether or not you believe the Word of God."

It's like "Did Jesus indeed say, You will all be saved and no one will be condemned?"

 

[Patrick1966]

It doesn't mean that all people will believe, so it doesn't mean that all people will be saved.

If Paul meant all people will be saved then he would not have qualified it by mentioning those who believe. The word translated as "especially" in English is malista which can be translated in various ways. In modern English we would probably say "of all people, i.e those who believe".

Your claim negates the plain meaning of Jesus' own words:

"He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his deeds may be made known, that they have been worked in God. John 3.

Jesus died for all people, but only through faith in His Word can anyone be saved. God has done HIs part. Individuals have nothing left to do except believe. The word you believe in my opinion is another way of saying, "you will not surely die".. except that in the case of the word you believe, it's "you will be saved from the consequences of Adam's sin and unbelief regardless of whether or not you believe the Word of God."

It's like "Did Jesus indeed say, You will all be saved and no one will be condemned?"

Paul said "especially believers" because John 3:16 (and others) promises that believers will NEVER die.

Still, Jesus sacrificed himself for ALL and is the savior of ALL from eternal death, but unbelievers and even "bad" Christians will NOT be saved from temporary death. In fact, at the resurrection some will be sent to the Lake of Fire. As 1 Corinthians 15 demonstrates, the trip to the LOF is temporary and that after Jesus has brought everyone to heel, he will turn over the kingdom to God.

 

[Patrick1966]

Your claim negates the plain meaning of Jesus' own words:

"He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

You misunderstand my brother because you apparently believe the FALSE doctrine that people who are condemned are condemned FOREVER.

When you understand that damnation is for only a period of time, then 1 Timothy 4:10 does not contradict other verses.

 

[Patrick1966]

@Fullness of the Gentiles

Let's look at the ESV translations of the following verses.

One esv verse says that Sodom burns for "eternity".

Another esv verse says that Sodom will be "restored".

The esv contradicts itself. How did that happen?

Jude 1:7 esv
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Ezekiel 16:53 esv
“I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst,

It's simple. The translation of 1Jude 7 was botched. Here is the correct translation:

Jude 7
Young's Literal Translation
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.

 

[Zao is life]

Paul said "especially believers" because John 3:16 (and others) promises that believers will NEVER die.

Still, Jesus sacrificed himself for ALL and is the savior of ALL from eternal death, but unbelievers and even "bad" Christians will NOT be saved from temporary death. In fact, at the resurrection some will be sent to the Lake of Fire. As 1 Corinthians 15 demonstrates, the trip to the LOF is temporary and that after Jesus has brought everyone to heel, he will turn over the kingdom to God.

In fact, at the resurrection some will be sent to the Lake of Fire.

In the Revelation we are told that the LOF = the 2nd death.

Part of what you say is true, because Jesus said,

"Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation." John 5:29 (the words of Jesus).

Notice the word condemnation in John 5:29 above (which is what Jesus Himself said) and compare it with what Jesus Himself said:

18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his deeds may be made known, that they have been worked in God.

So Jesus not only tells us that all will be made alive (resurrected), but He also teaches us that those who do not believe will be raised unto condemnation.

Adam's death was the first death, and it passed to all men.
The last Adam's death and esurrection passes to all men. Jeus told us that He IS the resurrection and the life.

So what is the 2nd death? Whatever it is, it IS called death.

Death is not everlasting life. The 2nd death is everlasting condemnation.

 

[Zao is life]

@Fullness of the Gentiles

Let's look at the ESV translations of the following verses.

One esv verse says that Sodom burns for "eternity".

Another esv verse says that Sodom will be "restored".

The esv contradicts itself. How did that happen?

Jude 1:7 esv
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Ezekiel 16:53 esv
“I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst,

It's simple. The translation of 1Jude 7 was botched. Here is the correct translation:

Jude 7
Young's Literal Translation
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.

@Fullness of the Gentiles
Ezekiel 16:53 esv
“I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst,

You've completely conflated Israel, Judah and Jerusalem with the actual cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. In the prophets God called the wandering, adulterous Jews Sodom and Gomorrah - it was and is a metaphor that God used via the words of the prophets, and it was referring not to the actual cities of Sodom and Gonmorrah, but to the Jews and Jerusalem.

The prophecy is about Israel and the Jews/Jerusalem being restored, not about the resotration of Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[Patrick1966]

So what is the 2nd death? Whatever it is, it IS called death.

The second death is when "bad" people are sent into the LOF. You'll notice that the verse doesn't say "believers" or "unbelievers" Good unbelievers, who were dead in the grave, will be raised along with the "bad". However, the good will receive life while the bad go to the LOF.

John 5:28-29 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.