Former UPCI preacher, Dr. Gregory A. Boyd wrote: "Jesus is explicitly referred to as "the Son" over two hundred times in the New Testament and never once is he called "Father." By contrast, over two hundred times "the Father" is referred to by Jesus or someone else as being clearly distinct from Jesus. In fact, over fifty times this juxtapositioning of the Father and Jesus the Son is rendered explicit within the very same verse ... whereas one hundred seventy nine times Jesus is presented as referring to "the Father," "my Father," or "your Father" in the Gospels as distinct from himself, at no time does he refer to "my Son" or anything of the sort as distinct from himself! Forty times in John's Gospel, Jesus refers to himself as "sent by the Father," but never does he refer to himself as the Father who sent the Son." (Oneness Pentecostals and the Trinity, pp. 68-69)so I can take that as you cannot say who was speaking ...... LOL
but we will show you who is speaking, LOOK Revelation 2:23 "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Who searcheth the reins and hearts? Let’s check the record, Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings”.
one more, Psalms 7:9 "Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins".
now dave the leg work is done for you, so who was speaking? was it the the Son here in revelation, or the Father of Jeremiah 17:10? which one .....since you said the "son" is not the "Father" and vice versa. who was speaking the one whom U calls the "Father" or the one whom U calls the "Son". there's that "call"again, Luke 1:35, "therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
who was it dave that was speaking?. lol...
you ERROR always, don't you.... lol.
PICJAG
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LOL, quit reading those comic book, ok. LOL. ok I'll give you that one ... lol.
now who was Speaking in Revelation 2:23 & 29 saying this "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works".
Revelation 2:29 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches".
and who is it that searcheth the reins and hearts? Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings".
who is the I in all these verses.
I got this one, it's not "Gregory Boyd", ...
your answer please.
PICJAG
Scripture says people cannot see God. “But He answered, “You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live.”” (Exodus 33:20) (HCSB)LOL, quit reading those comic book, ok. LOL. ok I'll give you that one ... lol.
now who was Speaking in Revelation 2:23 & 29 saying this "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works".
Revelation 2:29 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches".
and who is it that searcheth the reins and hearts? Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings".
who is the I in all these verses.
I got this one, it's not "Gregory Boyd", ...
your answer please.
PICJAG
Jesus says no man has seen the Father. “No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son — the One who is at the Father’s side — He has revealed Him.” (John 1:18) (HCSB)
But; “The LORD spoke with Moses face to face, just as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his assistant, the young man Joshua son of Nun, would not leave the inside of the tent.” (Exodus 33:11) (HCSB)
So Moses must have been speaking to the preincarnate Son who is at the Father’s side who reveals Him.
It was the preincarnate Son speaking with Moses in the OT, so I assume the same is true in Revelation.
se we can take this as you can't answer the question? .... loi, lol... well it sure was not "Gregory Boyd" ...lol, lol, lol. you can't speak TRUTH, it hurts.
remember what we told you before... "the TRUTH "hurts" some of the time, but a lie will kill you all the time". .... (smile) ..lol.
look, I'm heading to church, we can pick this up later. now study, remember what "hurts".....
PICJAG.
Who was Moses speaking to face to face, called God, if nobody has seen the Father?se we can take this as you can't answer the question? .... loi, lol... well it sure was not "Gregory Boyd" ...lol, lol, lol. you can't speak TRUTH, it hurts.
remember what we told you before... "the TRUTH "hurts" some of the time, but a lie will kill you all the time". .... (smile) ..lol.
look, I'm heading to church, we can pick this up later. now study, remember what "hurts".....
PICJAG.
talking to and seeing is not the same... lol, lol, lol. and face to face is always a barrier, as was with the tent, and my screendoor example... (smile)....lol. Oh well...
now dave you said
then you said,
You cannot limit YAHWEH to the Father only.
but do not your doctrine states the Father is not he Son nor the Holy Spirit, so who else are you not limiting YAHWEH to?.... (smile)...lol. who else dave..... cain't wait to hear that answer.
PICJAG.
Face to face = seeing
“And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.” (Exodus 33:11) (KJV 1900)
Face = 7156 פָּנֶה (pā·ně(h)): n.masc.; ≡ Str 3942, 6440; TWOT 1782b—1. LN 8.9–8.69 face, i.e., the front part of the head, including main organs for perception and speech; eyes, mouth, etc. (Nu 12:14); 2. LN 8.9–8.69 mouth, i.e., a part of the face with jaws that open and close (Job 41:6[EB 14]); 3. LN 79.91–79.94 surface, face, i.e., the two dimensional area of an object usually conceived as on top (the surface) of the object (Ge 1:2; 2:6); 4. LN 24.1–24.51 appearance, formally, face, i.e., the form or characteristics of something as seen (Ecc 8:1); 5. LN 85.1–85.31 presence, i.e., the personal existence of something in a particular place or space, that usually interacts with objects around it (Ge 27:30; Ex 33:14); 6. LN 83.33–83.41 in front of, i.e., a spatial position which is located at the anterior or forepart of an object or area (Ex 7:10); 7. LN 67.17–67.64 formerly, before, i.e., pertaining to a point of time earlier in sequence (Ge 27:7; 1Ch 4:40), note: for NIV text in Nu 33:8
Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
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It's interesting that while Joshua later performed hugely significant public exploits, he had already spent time in the sanctuary.
GINOLJC, to all
first thanks for the reply. second, all that you posed by
Exodus 33:21 "And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen".
as said, if I spook to you face to face with my screendoor in between you saw me FACE to FACE, but not clearly. the screen door is the barrier.
and
Exodus 33:11 "And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle".
God spoke to Moses Face to Face in a cloudy pillar.... LOL, lol, my ,my, my. when will they learn.
now back to my original question, which is advoided again.
Dave L said:
OT YAHWEH = NT Jesus Christ, and I asked,
dave, farouk, or any trinity believer, is this the same ONE person in Revelation 2:23 as in Jeremiah 17:10? yes or no.
let's help you out, Psalms 7:9 "Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
so is it the the one whom many calls FATHER, or is it the Son?....... you answer please.
PICJAG.
first thanks for the reply. second, all that you posed by
"The front part of the Head?", Exodus 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exodus 33:21 "And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen".
as said, if I spook to you face to face with my screendoor in between you saw me FACE to FACE, but not clearly. the screen door is the barrier.
and
Exodus 33:10 "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.
Exodus 33:11 "And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle".
God spoke to Moses Face to Face in a cloudy pillar.... LOL, lol, my ,my, my. when will they learn.
now back to my original question, which is advoided again.
Dave L said:
OT YAHWEH = NT Jesus Christ, and I asked,
dave, farouk, or any trinity believer, is this the same ONE person in Revelation 2:23 as in Jeremiah 17:10? yes or no.
let's help you out, Psalms 7:9 "Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
so is it the the one whom many calls FATHER, or is it the Son?.......
you answer please. PICJAG.
“And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;” (Genesis 18:1) (KJV 1900)GINOLJC, to all
first thanks for the reply. second, all that you posed by
"The front part of the Head?", Exodus 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exodus 33:21 "And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen".
as said, if I spook to you face to face with my screendoor in between you saw me FACE to FACE, but not clearly. the screen door is the barrier.
and
Exodus 33:10 "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.
Exodus 33:11 "And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle".
God spoke to Moses Face to Face in a cloudy pillar.... LOL, lol, my ,my, my. when will they learn.
now back to my original question, which is advoided again.
Dave L said:
OT YAHWEH = NT Jesus Christ, and I asked,
dave, farouk, or any trinity believer, is this the same ONE person in Revelation 2:23 as in Jeremiah 17:10? yes or no.
let's help you out, Psalms 7:9 "Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
so is it the the one whom many calls FATHER, or is it the Son?.......
PICJAG.
Jesus says no man has seen the Father. “No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son — the One who is at the Father’s side — He has revealed Him.” (John 1:18) (HCSB)
Who did Abraham see?
APPERARED, APPERARED, APPERARED? vs a MANIFESTATION in first Person.
Exodus 3:2 "And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exodus 3:3 "And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Exodus 3:4 "And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exodus 3:5 "And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground".
God spoke to Moses out of the butning bush, did he see God/Jesus... lol. now this,
listen, Exodus 16:10 "And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.
was not god in the cloud? and he appeared in it?.... lol.now this,
1 Kings 3:5 "In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee".
Oh God "APPEARED" in a DREAM...
.... lol.... my, my, my....NOW NT the SAME God appeared, but not manifested... Acts 9:17 "And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost".
LOL, LOL, LOL, this is too point o easy...
now, can we get a reconcicle of Revelation 2:23 and Jeremiah 17:10? yes or no.
PICJAG. .....
I love this.APPERARED, APPERARED, APPERARED? vs a MANIFESTATION in first Person.
Exodus 3:2 "And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exodus 3:3 "And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Exodus 3:4 "And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exodus 3:5 "And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground".
God spoke to Moses out of the butning bush, did he see God/Jesus... lol. now this,
listen, Exodus 16:10 "And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.
was not god in the cloud? and he appeared in it?.... lol.now this,
1 Kings 3:5 "In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee".
Oh God "APPEARED" in a DREAM...
NOW NT the SAME God appeared, but not manifested... Acts 9:17 "And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost".
LOL, LOL, LOL, this is too point o easy...
now, can we get a reconcicle of Revelation 2:23 and Jeremiah 17:10? yes or no.
PICJAG. .....
Jesus says no man has seen the Father. “No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son — the One who is at the Father’s side — He has revealed Him.” (John 1:18) (HCSB)
Who did Jacob wrestle with?
“And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” (Genesis 32:30) (KJV 1900)
ERROR, ERROR, ERROR, your paints are on fire.... lol.
get the whole story,
Genesis 32:24 "And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day". see dave angels are called men also who stand in for God, now the answer. Hosea 12:3 "He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
Hosea 12:4 "Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us".
LOL, LOL, LOL, it was an ANGEL that he wrestled. dave you didn't learn this in bible study class. this is basic stuff.
so this means you still cain't answer the Revelation 2:23 and Jeremiah 17:10 reconcicle? yes or no ...
see how easy it is for us to answer you, but why you cain't answer just ONE question?. ,,,?
PICJAG.
yes it is, John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. declared? "to consider out (aloud)" or to unfold, Make known, or REVEAL. that's why we have the book called REVELATION.
PICJAG.
People, people listen up, God can do anything. appearing as a man is nothing for God to do, listen Genesis 18:1 "And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
Genesis 18:2 "And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Genesis 18:3 "And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant".
these men, two of them was Identified as angels when in the city. Note: Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them".
NOW, Genesis 19:15 "And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city".
say what? the men was angels? yes in apperance only. my God.... come on. learn..
PICJAG.
Genesis 18:2 "And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Genesis 18:3 "And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant".
these men, two of them was Identified as angels when in the city. Note: Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them".
NOW, Genesis 19:15 "And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city".
say what? the men was angels? yes in apperance only. my God.... come on. learn..
PICJAG.
Jacob saw God face to face.ERROR, ERROR, ERROR, your paints are on fire.... lol.
get the whole story,
Genesis 32:24 "And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day". see dave angels are called men also who stand in for God, now the answer. Hosea 12:3 "He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
Hosea 12:4 "Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us".
LOL, LOL, LOL, it was an ANGEL that he wrestled. dave you didn't learn this in bible study class. this is basic stuff.
so this means you still cain't answer the Revelation 2:23 and Jeremiah 17:10 reconcicle? yes or no ...
see how easy it is for us to answer you, but why you cain't answer just ONE question?. ,,,?
PICJAG.
“And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” (Genesis 32:30) (KJV 1900)
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so again we can take this as you cannot answer....
.... (smile)... Oh well.But you will, all of us will see God/the Lord Jesus "FACE" to "FACE", at his Judgment seat. Revelation 2:23 "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. (which is works).
see dave the one who "searcheth the reins and hearts" is the same one who you and all of us will stand in JUDGMENT in front of. listen, Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Yes, it's the SAME ONE person, the one who judge, gives us according to our "WORKS". listen, Romans 14:11 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Romans 14:12 "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Hold it, stop the press, "every knee bow, and every tongue shall confess/swear". he said EVERY knee bow unto "ME". me is one person. well....... who is this me that "EVERY" knee shall bow and "EVERY" Tongue shall confess/swear to? who is this "ME"?". the apostle Paul said, "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God". so the me, single PERSON is God. let's IDENTIFY God. Revelation 20:12 above by the writer there said, "stand before God". so who is this God that is me, who we all must "Bow" the Knee, and "Confess with the "Tongue" to?.
Let's check the record. Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. (Oh that's the "me" who is God, "The LORD, one PERSON", to trinitarian, better known as the Father..... let's go on and see.
Isaiah 45:22 "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (so there's the God)
Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear".
so, the LORD, all caps, is the God who is "ME" who that EVERY knee shall bow, and Every Tongue confess to. ok, that's straightforward, the scriptures don't lie. but... but ... but and that's with one "t". but this,
Philippians 2:10 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (OK, we got the knee part, what about the tongue? lets go on,
Philippians 2:11 "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father". (oh there's the tongue, but it said "to the glory of the Father", scripture, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (SAY WHAT...
with thine "OWNSELF" ... before the world was?. what was that? .... Spirit with all power. scripture, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth". why is this? "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily". for when he shared, "diversified" himself in flesh he G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself while in that flesh.Wait a minute, before the world was, was not God "Complete", which fulness means. but now in that body, all the fulness dwells........ let's see, John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God". (smile)..
yea .... buddy. so what was full then in Spirit is now full in flesh and bones, in a body. and he, or the "ME" we will see "his" face, not their faces, but his, singular, "FACE", (FACE to FACE). scripture, Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: Revelation 22:4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads"."his", "his", "his" how many is "his" ......
that's right "ONE", yea buddy. yes one ... better known as "1". and he said "his", "his", "his" NAME shall be in their foreheads. scripture, Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
HOLD IT. did he not say, "I will write upon him the name of my God"... did he not say that?. but what also did he say? "I will write upon him my new name. ", LOL, LOL, LOL, my, my, my. "MY" new name", of MY GOD. what did Thomas say again? "MY Lord, and "MY" God. Thomas just told us who the "ME" the "GOD" is.... (right in your face, "FACE" to "FACE", John 20:28. and by writting "his" new name on us, he, JESUS, just told you that he is the ONLY TRUE GOD.
who can we teach doctrine to? Isaiah 28:9b "them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
I suggest one re-read this post for perfect clarity, because it makes it very plain as to who the Lord Jesus really is. the ONE TRUE and LIVING GOD.
see dave we can explain "diversified Oneness" anytime, any place, anywhere.
PICJAG.
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