face2face
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How did death have dominion in Jesus.
Still waiting for you to deal with Romans 6:9
Jesus was not a Jew?
- Thread starter Matthias
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Still waiting for you to deal with Romans 6:9
BlessedPeace
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We are in Christ, Christ is in us. Read all of the chapter after verse 9.How did death have dominion in Jesus.
Still waiting for you to deal with Romans 6:9
face2face
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Boy you are slippery Blessed!
I'm going to make this easier for you....what is the theme of the verse?
We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.
Death, die again, death no longer...
How did death have dominion over Jesus while he was alive and in his death?
This is not a difficult question if you know the true Gospel.
F2F
“… given the historic attack on the Jewishness of Jesus, beginning with early Church leaders severing the Jewish roots of the faith, continuing with classic Christian art that demonized the ancient Jewish leaders and transformed Jesus into a White European, moving to the Nazi effort to make Jesus into a non-Jewish Aryan, and to the current ‘Jesus was a Palestinian refugee’ rhetoric, now would be a good time to emphasize historic truth.
Jesus, whose Hebrew name was Yeshua, was born in Bethlehem of Judea. His mother’s name was Miriam, and His followers were named Yaakov and Shimon and Yehudah, among others. And He was Messiah (= Christ in Greek) because He was hailed as the long-awaited Savior of the Jewish people (and thereby, the Savior of the whole world.)
He was born King of the Jews and died King of the Jews.
And when He comes again, He is returning to Jerusalem.
Does this offend you?”
(Michael Brown, “The ongoing fight against the Jewishness of Jesus”)
www.christianpost.com
Jesus, whose Hebrew name was Yeshua, was born in Bethlehem of Judea. His mother’s name was Miriam, and His followers were named Yaakov and Shimon and Yehudah, among others. And He was Messiah (= Christ in Greek) because He was hailed as the long-awaited Savior of the Jewish people (and thereby, the Savior of the whole world.)
He was born King of the Jews and died King of the Jews.
And when He comes again, He is returning to Jerusalem.
Does this offend you?”
(Michael Brown, “The ongoing fight against the Jewishness of Jesus”)
The ongoing fight against the Jewishness of Jesus
He was born King of the Jews and died King of the Jews And when He comes again, He is returning to Jerusalem Does this offend you
www.christianpost.com
RLT63
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Just wondering why you joined a Christian forum. I’m not meaning that in a negative way I’m just curious
Greetings.
Thank you for your question.
A little about myself, if I may:
Born in 1945 – in the Rhondda Valley, South Wales – and raised a Baptist, I became, at the age of fifteen, a Catholic; and remained one for over fifty years.
For ten years I was a professed member of the Carmelite Third Order; and studied biblical and dogmatic theology; hermeneutics; biblical criticism; canon law, and so on. I had excellent teachers. I was a Thomist, and still have a very high regard for the methodology of Aquinas.
I spent a year with the Carmelite Friars at Hazlewood Castle in Yorkshire (now a hotel); and over a year with the Cistercians (Trappists) at Mount Saint Bernard Abbey in Leicester, testing a vocation (I first visited the Abbey in my early twenties, and knew the community well). It became clear that life in a religious order was not my calling, and so I became a husband and father (as the Abbey Secretary said to me: ‘Our novitiate is a seedbed of good Catholic marriages!’). I look back at my time with the Carmelites and Cistercians with great affection. Even though I no longer share all their doctrinal beliefs, I admire their spirituality, and their honest convictions; and their way of life – especially that of the Cistercians.
About fifteen years ago, my son became a Muslim. He obtained a degree in Classical Arabic; married a Moroccan lass (who I consider to be my third daughter); and now lives there. He is a translator of Qur’anic and aḥadīth exegesis; and of other scholarly works. One of my daughter-in-law’s ancestors, ʻAbd al-Salām ibn Mashīsh al-ʻAlamī, was the spiritual guide of Abu al-Hasan ash-Shadhili, founder of the Shadhili Tariqa. My son is a Sufi of that Tariqa; and a murīd of Shaykh Seyyed Hossein Nasr.
Having gained a Muslim family, I made it my business to learn all I could about Islam (I’m still learning). It was during this long process that I began to question certain Christian beliefs I once held as true; and which I had defended many times over the years. Moving from Christianity to Islam was a painful journey (emotionally); but it was the right journey……at least for me.
Why did I join this particular Forum?
Because, having read the following Rule, I thought it might be an interesting step to take:
‘This section had been created for the purpose of non Christians and/or other faiths to discuss their particular beliefs. Christians may reply to their threads as long as they are relevant to the "Interfaith Discussion" section.’
Rest assured. I am not here to proselytise.
There is absolutely no requirement for a Christian (or a Jew) to embrace Islam; to become a Muslim. My wife, for example, is a Catholic and, like all Jewish or Christian wives (of Muslims) retains an inviolable right, not only to retain her Faith, but to practice it.
Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) tells us: ‘We have assigned a law and a path to each of you. If Allāh had so willed, He would have made you one community, but He wanted to test you through that which He has given you, so race to do good: you will all return to Allāh and He will make clear to you the matters you differed about.’ (Al-Ma’ida: 48).
And this is what He has to say about Jews and Christians:
‘Those who believe and do good deeds are the best of creation. Their reward with their Lord is everlasting Gardens graced with flowing streams, where they will stay forever. Allāh is well pleased with them and they with Him. All this is for those who stand in awe of their Lord.’ (Al-Bayyina 7 -8; my emphasis).
Take especial note of these ʾāyāt. It has been my privilege to know – and to love – many Christians who were shining examples of Christian love and good practice. These ʾāyāt assure me that every Christian, and every Jew, who carries the Beloved in their hearts, and who act according to His Will, shall have their reward in Heaven. This is the Beloved’s promise, and He does not renege on His promises.
That’s it!
Blessings.
Thanks for sharing your personal story.
“Islam is broadly considered to have been founded when the Angel Jibreel descended upon the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) at Mount Hira in 610 A.D.”
(UK Islamic Mission, ”When Did Islam Begin?”)
Do you agree with this Islamic source on the founding date of Islam?
Do you / does Islam affirm that Jesus is a Jew?
RLT63
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Lambano
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BlessedPeace
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BlessedPeace
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BlessedPeace
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Good day, Brother.
Happy New Year.
The scholarly consensus is that the first revelation of the Qur’an came to the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) in the Hira Cave, near Mecca, in 610 CE; and that these revelations continued – at intervals – for the following 23 years.
The first revelation was very brief, consisting of just five ʾāyāt, beginning with the imperative verb ‘iq'ra’ – meaning ‘read’ or ‘recite’.
‘Read! In the name of your Lord who created: He created man from a clinging form. Read! Your Lord is the Most Bountiful One who taught by (means of) the pen, who taught man what he did not know.’ (Al- Alaq:1-5).
It is important to emphasise (and the site you reference has not done this) that the Prophet did not bring a new religion; rather, he conveyed truths that have existed since the very beginning of humankind’s relationship with the Beloved.
That:
The Beloved is our Creator and Lord; that He is absolutely perfect; that He is infinite in every perfection; that He is the True God, possessing an infinite power of cognition; that He is absolute Veracity; that He is is absolutely faithful; that He is absolute ontological Goodness in Himself, and in relation to others; that He is is absolute Moral Goodness or Holiness; that He is absolute Benignity; that He is absolutely immutable; that He is eternal and everywhere present in created space; that His knowledge is infinite; that His Attributes really are identical among themselves, and with His Essence; that He is omnipotent; that He is Lord of the heavens and of the earth; and that He is infinitely just, and infinitely merciful.
And:
That human existence does not end at death, but that all will experience resurrection, judgement, reward and retribution; that Heaven and Hell are realities; that polytheism and idolatry are unacceptable, for there is only one Lord; and that the Beloved requires nothing less than a complete change in one’s way of life, through repentance and right action.
The Hijrah (migration to Medina) in 622 created the first Islamic state; a state responsible for its own development and protection.
In an essay entitled ‘The Qur’an as a Source of Islamic Law’, Aḥmad Muḥammad al-Ṭayyib writes:
‘The Madinan parts of the Quran are distinguished by the promulgation of laws for personal affairs, society, and the state, including rules of marriage, child nursing (raḍāʿah), family maintenance (nafaqah), inheritance (mīrāth), usury (ribā), commercial transactions (buyūʿ) retribution (qiṣāṣ) and struggle in society and in the path of God (jihād) – all of the different laws that came to be a matter of concern for Muslims as soon as they were constituted as a community, with a state of their own, social institutions, an army, and a leader.’ (‘The Study Quran: A New Translation and Commentary’; by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, et al).
In a nutshell:
There are – for the various human communities – different ways of revering and worshipping the Beloved, who has revealed, not one law, but many; and to each law corresponds a particular path that is based upon the performance of rites specific to that form of worship:
‘We have appointed acts of devotion for every community to observe, so do not let them argue with you (Prophet) about this matter. Call them to your Lord – you are on the right path – and if they argue with you, say, ‘Allāh is well aware of what you are doing.’ On the Day of Resurrection, Allāh will judge between you regarding your differences.’ (Al-Hajj: 67-69).
The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) revealed the law – and taught the path – set out (by the Beloved) for those who embrace the community of ‘Islam’.
……………………………………………………..
Concerning the lineage of Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām):
‘Allāh chose Adam, Noah, Abraham’s family, and the family of Imran, over all other people, in one line of descent – Allāh hears and knows all. Imran’s wife said: “Lord, I have dedicated what is growing in my womb entirely to You; so, accept this from me. You are the One who hears and knows all”; but when she gave birth, she said: “My Lord! I have given birth to a girl” – Allāh knew best what she had given birth to: the male is not like the female – “I name her Mary and I commend her and her offspring to Your protection from the rejected Satan.” Her Lord graciously accepted her and made her grow in goodness, and entrusted her to the charge of Zachariah……...’ (Al‘Imran: 33-37).
As you know, Zachariah (Radi Allahu ‘anhu) was Mary’s uncle; and is regarded as a prophet of Islam; based on the following ʾāyah:
‘Zachariah, John, Jesus, and Elijah – every one of them was righteous – Ishmael, Elisha, Jonah, and Lot. We favoured each one of them over other people, and also some of their forefathers, their offspring, and their brothers: We chose them and guided them on a straight path. Such is Allāh’s guidance, with which He guides whichever of His servants He will. If they had associated other gods with Him, all their deeds would have come to nothing.’ (Al-An‘am: 85-88).
There is no doubt that Zachariah was a righteous man; worthy of being Mary’s spiritual guide and mentor.
There is no doubt that Mary (Radi Allahu ‘anha) – the only woman mentioned by name in the Qur’an – is of the Banu Israel (the Children of Israel); and that Yeshua was her son.
It is necessary to trace Yeshua’s lineage through Mary since, as you know, Jewish heritage is passed matrilineally. This has been the teaching since the time of the covenant at Sinai, c 1310 BCE (cf; Sir – the Baron – Immanual Jakobovits: ‘The Timely and the Timeless’); consider also this comment from Chabad.org:
‘The Code of Jewish Law clearly states that a child of a Jewish mother is Jewish, regardless of the father’s lineage (or whatever else may show up in a DNA test), while the child of a non-Jewish mother is not Jewish. Matrilineal descent has been a fundamental principle of Torah since the Jewish people came into existence.’
By the way, a geezer by the name of Kenneth Donsky objects to Chabad’s claim, writing:
‘If Judaism is spread matrilineally then how are there any Jews? the first Jew was a man. check mate.’ (Chabad).
Good grief!
Simcha Bart – on behalf of Chabad – responds:
‘Halachic Jews were only established when the rules were given - at Mt. Sinai when G-d gave us the rules for everything in the Torah. This included who is a Jew and how to become a Jew. At the time the Torah was given it was a mass conversion of the entire Jewish people, because none of us were Jewish according to Halacha until then.’
Make of this what you will.
According to Islam, Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) is also of the Banu Israel; a Jew. I agree with this teaching.
Blessings.
Good day, Brother.
Happy New Year,
Thank you.
By way of a better one, permit me to tell you a little of my paternal grandfather:
He was taken out of school at the age of ten, and set to work in one of the local coal-mines (this was unlawful at that time, but who cared?).
Using the town’s Miners’ Institute – these Institutes were centres of learning – he studied (among many other things) both Hebrew and Greek. He was a polymath.
His second great passion – Faith and Family together being his first – was music. Able to play both violin and piano – and to transpose written music into tonic-solfa for those who could not read music – he was appointed Musical Director of the local Amateur Operatic Society. His favourite work was Handel’s Messiah. I can see him now, dressed in his black evening suit, white shirt, black dickie-bow, conducting a full chorus and orchestra, with his white baton; every word, every note engraved in his heart. I have his baton, but none of his talent!
In the 1920’s, a number of Italian families moved into Glamorgan and set up shops and cafes. One of these families (the Bassini’s) settled in my home town.
When Italy declared war, and joined with Germany, the UK government issued an internment order against those it deemed to be ‘enemy civilians.’ This included the Bassini’s. The husband (I knew him as Jack) was taken away, but his wife and three children were allowed to remain in their home (they had a café and a fish and chip shop, located side-by-side).
One day, my grandfather – returning from work – discovered a mob, hurling abuse (and stones) at the Bassini’s and their home; at people they had once called friends. My grandfather stood between the mob and their target, and told them to stop, and to go home. They did.
Many years later, the family’s eldest daughter (Maria) was accepted as a Carmelite nun; and my grandfather and grandmother were invited to attend the investiture ceremony. A great honour.
My grandfather was an Elder at Blaencwm Chapel. The Elders employed the Minister.
When I was a teenager, one Minister visited my grandfather’s house. He was treated like royalty. My grandfather called him ‘Sir’. Later, I asked my grandfather why he had called this man ‘Sir’ after all, he was the Minister’s boss!
My grandfather smiled, and said: ‘I’m just an Elder. The Minister speaks the Word!’
When my grandfather died, several hundred men – of all ages – attended his funeral (women did not attend funerals in those days). They filled the cemetery chapel, and many were weeping openly.
My grandfather was able to calm a howling mob – and move the hearts of many – not because of any legal authority (he had none), but because of his character; because of the person he was. He lived his Faith as it was meant to be lived. A Christian would say that he reflected the love of Jesus; and that it was this that made him a shining beacon to others. I would say that he reflected the love of the Beloved. He led by example rather than by argument. My greatest regret is that I was too young – and, when old enough, too immature – to hold long conversations with him, and to fully appreciate the kind of man he was.
He is, by far, the finest man I ever knew.
Blessings.
Happy New Year.
I’m glad we‘re able to agree that that Jesus is a Jew. It’s not something that should be controversial. Most of the time it isn’t an issue but, as can be seen even in this thread, sometimes it is.
What do you / Islam say about his religion? In your view, was he practicing Judaism or some other religion?
Greeting, Brother.
Sorry for my delayed reply.
What was Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām)’s religion?
Judaism.
According to Islam, Yeshua was sent (by the Beloved) to the Children of Israel to confirm the revelation given to the Moses (ʿalayhi as-salām).
Yeshua says to his people:
‘I have come to confirm the truth of the Torah which preceded me, and to make some things lawful unto you part of that which was forbidden. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. Be mindful of Allāh, obey me: Allāh is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him – that is a straight path.’ (Al‘Imran: 50-51).
Shaykh Seyyed Hossein Nasr writes:
‘The language of confirmation echoes the manner in which the Quran is said to confirm earlier revelations. To make lawful unto you part of that which was forbidden is understood to pertain to certain dietary restrictions, but not to fundamental moral injunctions such as those against murder and adultery. What was previously forbidden and is now made lawful was either some of the rules in the Torah or restrictions the Israelites imposed upon themselves in succeeding generations.
‘This latter interpretation, that Jesus did not change any aspect of Moses’ original revelation, is supported by Jesus’ words in 43:63: I have come unto you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that wherein you differ. Some commentators maintain that what Jesus brought was “gentler” than what Moses brought and constituted an “alleviation”’. (‘The Study Qur’an).
The New Testament suggests (persuasively) that Yeshua did not reject Judaism. On the contrary, he remained dedicated to that Faith throughout his ministry.
The French Catholic theologian, Jean Guitton writes:
‘In his historical humanity, Jesus was a devout Israelite, practicing the law to the full, from circumcision to Pesach, paying the half-shekel for the Temple. Jerusalem, the capital of his nation, was the city he loved: Jesus wept over it. Jesus had spiritually realized the germinal aspiration of his people, which was to raise the God of Israel...’ (‘Great Heresies and Church Councils).
Samuel Ungerleider – Professor of Judaic Studies and Professor of Religious Studies at Brown University – writes of Yeshua that:
‘He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogues. He preached from Jewish text, from the Bible. He celebrated the Jewish festivals. He went on pilgrimage to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem where he was under the authority of priests....’ (Quoted in the website ‘Frontline – From Jesus to Christ’)
William Goodwin – Aurelio Professor of the Appreciation of Scripture, at Boston University – writes:
‘What astonishes me when I read the stories about Jesus in the New Testament, is how completely embedded he is in this first century... Jewish world of religious practice and piety.
‘(…) He is presented as going up to Jerusalem for the pilgrimage holidays, specifically in John, for any number of pilgrimage holidays, and in the synoptic gospels, most importantly, for Passover. Jerusalem at Passover is not the sort of place you'd want to be in unless you were really committed to doing an awful lot of ritual activity with tremendous historical resonance....
‘What we've learned from the gospel stories is not that Jesus was not Jewish. Quite the opposite. He's completely embedded in the Judaism of his time…….’ (Ibid.)
Blessings.
WalterandDebbie
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Hello Matthias, and how are you all? Interesting question, We believe in order to answer your question one must search for the answer, but have you, looked at these views along with others?
Jesus was not a Jew?
Who Is Jesus Christ? – Part 3
Was Yeshua Really The Son Of David And The Genealogy Of Jesus Christ
One of the most central tenets of Christianity is that Jesus was the prophesied Christ, the Messiah.
Time and again, Jesus referenced His fulfilling that role—sometimes subtly, sometimes overtly. If it can be proven He was not whom He claimed He was, then Christianity would collapse. If He was not the Christ—the prophesied coming King of an eternal kingdom—then why should anyone believe His words? He would be an imposter, and thus should be rejected.
Can it be verified that Jesus fulfilled the numerous Old Testament prophecies concerning the Christ? If so, why did the Jews of the first century reject Him?
To be continued
Love, Walter And Debbie
WalterandDebbie
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