Jesus will not lose anyone

[Episkopos]

Water can be holy. Food can be holy. Garments can be holy. Words can be holy. There are many things that scripture calls holy. What they all have in common is that they are being used for God's purpose. Holiness is not in the category of moral behavior. Food has no behavior. Water has no behavior. Yet they can be holy. The common use of the word 'holy' to describe a person's behavior is an incorrect use of the word. A holy man is one who is living in God's purpose. The category of moral behavior is rather called righteousness. And the fact is, we are not to approach God with our own righteousness. We receive His righteousness by faith. We have a new man, already righteous and holy (Eph.4:24)

How well a person walks in righteousness can vary from day to day, hour to hour, month to month. No one can walk in perfect morality 24/7...365 days of the year. Thus we are in constant dependance upon His grace and mercy and are not to be placing our confidence in the flesh.

Because it is either righteousness or hell (all have sinned and fall short of His glory), we are all doomed were it not for the mercy of God. The sacrifice of Jesus keeps us in good standing with God. Under the old covenant the blood of bulls and goats did the same. If the blood of Jesus cannot at least accomplish what the old covenant sacrifices did, then why did the author of Hebrews insist that His sacrifice is superior? Do we now insult the Spirit of grace, calling His death no less common than the blood of bulls and goats? Do we throw His work back in His face by presenting our own work to Him for justification? Are we to think that for one second in this life we achieve the glory of God? No matter how well we serve Him, we will always fall short of His glory.

...knock yourself out, my friends. He who has the Son, has life.

You're on the right track except that the holiness in the NT is no longer ceremonial to be equated with inanimate objects. Holiness is where God dwells...we are made holy by being the vessel or container of His holiness. We are indeed made holy by abiding in Christ...but only as we remain in Him. It is the presence that emanates from our being that makes us holy. The water needs to flow out of His eternal springs within us. Notice that Paul says the Corinthians are yet carnal...meaning that they still have the carnal shell that the power of the cross has not yet broken down to reveal the life within. A spiritual saint is one who allows the life within to flow out unhindered by carnal reasoning, affections, desires, pride...etc. So holiness IS something that can be seen through a man's behaviour. The behaviour of a holy man is PERFECT since it is Christ in Him that is the author of the behaviour.

Righteousness is like holiness but without the power. A righteous man will sin...but he will also accurately acknowledge his sinful behaviour...he calls it as it is with sorrow in his heart...without prejudice nor pretense...therefore he is righteous.

 

[logabe]

Isaiah 53:11 ... God’s righteous Servant shall justify many (not all) and bear their iniquities
Romans 5:15 ... The gift by the grace of Jesus Christ abounded to many (not all)
Romans 5:17 ... Those (many, not all) who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness
Romans 5:19 ... By one Man’s obedience many (not all) will be made righteous

What a God! What a Plan!

Let's talk about Romans 5:19.

19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many
were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the
One the many will be made righteous.

Do you see that? How many is many when it comes to the disobedience of that
one man? Let's answer that question by going to another scripture. Romans 3:23
says,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So the many that Paul was talking about must be all the human race. But when it
comes the obedience of Jesus "the last Adam", the many becomes just a few. My
question is, who has the greater power? The first Adam or the Last? In other words,
what single act accomplished the most influence on the human race? If we believe
that Jesus will save just a few, then we have to conclude that the 1st Adam surely
had the most influence, and therefore the most power.

I believe that the Last Adam will eventually become the Savior of the world. For God
so loved the world that He created the many knowing that most of them were going
to be tormented for eternity. What kind of love is that? No... a thousand times NO...
that doesn't sound like a God that loves the world. Let's see what God is really going
do. Rev. 5:13 says,

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the
earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in
them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and
to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion
forever and ever."

Come on John, not every created thing... are you sure? John said it... I'm just have to
believe him. What did God create? I think he created everything, and John says, that
one day, everything that God created will be worshipping Him that sits on the throne.

How many is every created thing? I'll let you ponder that question and you can see for
yourself if you allow God to show you by the Spirit. Here's another scripture that we
need to analize. Col. 1:16 says,

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens
and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or
dominions or rulers or authorities -all things have been
created through Him and for Him.

So God created all things, birds, animals, humans, everything we can see and we can't
see. What will God do with the things He has created. Paul answers that in the 20th
verse of Col.

20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself,
having made peace through the blood of His cross ;
through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things
in heaven.

The all that God created will be reconciled one day back to Jesus Christ. Now, that's the
Word of the Lord. We can reject it, and make it of non effect because of our tradition or
we can see it for what it says. It's left up to us. Last scripture of the day... Ps. 22:27 says,

27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn
to the LORD, And all the families of the nations will
worship before You.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[williemac]

You're on the right track except that the holiness in the NT is no longer ceremonial to be equated with inanimate objects. Holiness is where God dwells...we are made holy by being the vessel or container of His holiness. We are indeed made holy by abiding in Christ...but only as we remain in Him. It is the presence that emanates from our being that makes us holy. The water needs to flow out of His eternal springs within us. Notice that Paul says the Corinthians are yet carnal...meaning that they still have the carnal shell that the power of the cross has not yet broken down to reveal the life within. A spiritual saint is one who allows the life within to flow out unhindered by carnal reasoning, affections, desires, pride...etc. So holiness IS something that can be seen through a man's behaviour. The behaviour of a holy man is PERFECT since it is Christ in Him that is the author of the behaviour.

Righteousness is like holiness but without the power. A righteous man will sin...but he will also accurately acknowledge his sinful behaviour...he calls it as it is with sorrow in his heart...without prejudice nor pretense...therefore he is righteous.

Thank you for this information. I can meditate on this one. But I will comment that abiding in Christ and remaining in Christ both are done through faith and fellowship. Jesus said if we abide in Him we will bear fruit. One is the cause, the other the effect. Bearing fruit is a holy thing, since it is from and of God. It is our purpose in Him to bear fruit. There are some who insist that we abide in Him by bearing fruit. This is a reversal of cause and effect. It is role reversal. Blessings, Howie

Let's talk about Romans 5:19.

19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many
were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the
One the many will be made righteous.

Do you see that? How many is many when it comes to the disobedience of that
one man? Let's answer that question by going to another scripture. Romans 3:23
says,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So the many that Paul was talking about must be all the human race. But when it
comes the obedience of Jesus "the last Adam", the many becomes just a few. My
question is, who has the greater power? The first Adam or the Last? In other words,
what single act accomplished the most influence on the human race? If we believe
that Jesus will save just a few, then we have to conclude that the 1st Adam surely
had the most influence, and therefore the most power.

I believe that the Last Adam will eventually become the Savior of the world. For God
so loved the world that He created the many knowing that most of them were going
to be tormented for eternity. What kind of love is that? No... a thousand times NO...
that doesn't sound like a God that loves the world. Let's see what God is really going
do. Rev. 5:13 says,

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the
earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in
them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and
to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion
forever and ever."

Come on John, not every created thing... are you sure? John said it... I'm just have to
believe him. What did God create? I think he created everything, and John says, that
one day, everything that God created will be worshipping Him that sits on the throne.

How many is every created thing? I'll let you ponder that question and you can see for
yourself if you allow God to show you by the Spirit. Here's another scripture that we
need to analize. Col. 1:16 says,

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens
and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or
dominions or rulers or authorities -all things have been
created through Him and for Him.

So God created all things, birds, animals, humans, everything we can see and we can't
see. What will God do with the things He has created. Paul answers that in the 20th
verse of Col.

20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself,
having made peace through the blood of His cross ;
through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things
in heaven.

The all that God created will be reconciled one day back to Jesus Christ. Now, that's the
Word of the Lord. We can reject it, and make it of non effect because of our tradition or
we can see it for what it says. It's left up to us. Last scripture of the day... Ps. 22:27 says,

27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn
to the LORD, And all the families of the nations will
worship before You.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

I see universalism in this reply. You really want to go there? What about 2Cor.5:19,20? That passage reveals that even though God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, there is a pleading from God to the world to respond and be reconciled. The part that is flawed in the universalism message is that eternal life is a relationship with God. But in order to have meaningful relationship, it requires a willing participation from both parties. I use the same argument for both universalism and hyper-Calvinism. In either case the suggestion is that God literally forces Himself on people with no regard to whether or not they actually have any interest in knowing Him or acknowledging His plan and purpose. Both concepts disregard the free will of the individual. I use that term with my own understanding of it. I am speaking of man's ability to think, reason, and respond, and receive.

The passages that refer to all are talking about those who remain after all is said and done, and all those who go to perdition are removed from the picture. For those who don't respond well to the idea of forever human torment, I have a suggestion. Just take the words of God literally. They will perish, be destroyed, die and not live forever (John 6:50,51). The word for it is extermination. One cannot just cherry pick their favorite verses and ignore other verses. Not without rendering the entire bible undependable.

 

[logabe]

Thank you for this information. I can meditate on this one. But I will comment that abiding in Christ and remaining in Christ both are done through faith and fellowship. Jesus said if we abide in Him we will bear fruit. One is the cause, the other the effect. Bearing fruit is a holy thing, since it is from and of God. It is our purpose in Him to bear fruit. There are some who insist that we abide in Him by bearing fruit. This is a reversal of cause and effect. It is role reversal. Blessings, Howie


I see universalism in this reply. You really want to go there? What about 2Cor.5:19,20? That passage reveals that even though God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, there is a pleading from God to the world to respond and be reconciled. The part that is flawed in the universalism message is that eternal life is a relationship with God. But in order to have meaningful relationship, it requires a willing participation from both parties. I use the same argument for both universalism and hyper-Calvinism. In either case the suggestion is that God literally forces Himself on people with no regard to whether or not they actually have any interest in knowing Him or acknowledging His plan and purpose. Both concepts disregard the free will of the individual. I use that term with my own understanding of it. I am speaking of man's ability to think, reason, and respond, and receive.

The passages that refer to all are talking about those who remain after all is said and done, and all those who go to perdition are removed from the picture. For those who don't respond well to the idea of forever human torment, I have a suggestion. Just take the words of God literally. They will perish, be destroyed, die and not live forever (John 6:50,51). The word for it is extermination. One cannot just cherry pick their favorite verses and ignore other verses. Not without rendering the entire bible undependable.

I am not a Universalist. I don't believe that you are already saved as they do. I believe
that God will raise believers and non-believers alike in the 2nd resurrection to be judged.
I believe that God will raise the Overcomers @ the end of this Age. The Overcomers of
chapters 2 and 3 of Rev. will be the only ones raised @ the 1st Resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6).

These are the ones you commented on in John 6:50,51. These are the ones that submit
to His Spirit (Blood) and eats His Flesh (Word). They will qualify to rule and reign with Him.
The rest of the dead will be dealt with a thousand years later or @ the end of that Age.

God will judge them @ the G.W.T. and that will determine how long they stay in correction.
What they did in their lifetime whether it was good or evil, God will render the verdict. Will
the Lake of Fire be fun? I don't think so, and that's why we need to tell whosoever will let
him/her come NOW.

Yes... they must accept Jesus Christ in order to be saved from the Lake of Fire. But, if not,
God will correct them in that Lake of Fire. The only thing that will perish or be destroyed is
the bonds that have them in bondage. The Fire will burn the bands that have them in the
state of vanity. I'm not cherry picking, but have you ever read Dan. 3:25? That is prophetic
of what the Overcomers and ultimately the human race goes through to be set free from the
bonds that have them bound. It takes the FIRE OF GOD to release them from the carnal mind.

Yes... they will be destroyed of the Age. In essense, they will miss the Tabernacles Age or
lose their reward of ruling and reigning with Jesus Christ. But God has a Plan and a Purpose
even for them. Did you know God even made the wicked for a Purpose (Proverbs 16:4). God
even used an unbeliever to release the Jews from Babylon (Isa. 45:1-6).

1 Thus says the LORD to Cyrus His anointed, Whom I have
taken by the right hand, To subdue nations before him And
to loose the loins of kings ; To open doors before him so
that gates will not be shut :
2 "I will go before you and make the rough places smooth ;
I will shatter the doors of bronze and cut through their iron
bars.
3 "I will give you the treasures of darkness And hidden
wealth of secret places, So that you may know that it is I,
The LORD, the God of Israel, who calls you by your name.
4 "For the sake of Jacob My servant, And Israel My chosen
one, I have also called you by your name ; I have given you
a title of honor Though you have not known Me.
5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other ; Besides Me there
is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me;
6 That men may know from the rising to the setting of the
sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and
there is no other,

God's sovereignty is proven by the fact that men's unbelief is not a hindrance to the divine
plan. God can work with unbelievers as well as with believers. God can turn the hearts of
kings to Himself very quickly and easily, just ask Nebuchadnezzar in Dan. 4.

37 "Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the
King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways
just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride."

In the end... God will save the whole world. I agree it is hard for someone who has been
taught by man to accept what God is going to do. I told my preacher @ Lowe's one day for
about 2 hours the plan of God. When I was finished, he said, brother, I don't think you are
correct, but I sure hope you are.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[logabe]

Thank you for this information. I can meditate on this one. But I will comment that abiding in Christ and remaining in Christ both are done through faith and fellowship. Jesus said if we abide in Him we will bear fruit. One is the cause, the other the effect. Bearing fruit is a holy thing, since it is from and of God. It is our purpose in Him to bear fruit. There are some who insist that we abide in Him by bearing fruit. This is a reversal of cause and effect. It is role reversal. Blessings, Howie


I see universalism in this reply. You really want to go there? What about 2Cor.5:19,20? That passage reveals that even though God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, there is a pleading from God to the world to respond and be reconciled. The part that is flawed in the universalism message is that eternal life is a relationship with God. But in order to have meaningful relationship, it requires a willing participation from both parties. I use the same argument for both universalism and hyper-Calvinism. In either case the suggestion is that God literally forces Himself on people with no regard to whether or not they actually have any interest in knowing Him or acknowledging His plan and purpose. Both concepts disregard the free will of the individual. I use that term with my own understanding of it. I am speaking of man's ability to think, reason, and respond, and receive.

The passages that refer to all are talking about those who remain after all is said and done, and all those who go to perdition are removed from the picture. For those who don't respond well to the idea of forever human torment, I have a suggestion. Just take the words of God literally. They will perish, be destroyed, die and not live forever (John 6:50,51). The word for it is extermination. One cannot just cherry pick their favorite verses and ignore other verses. Not without rendering the entire bible undependable.

Let's talk about 2nd Cor. 5:19-20.

19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world
to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them,
and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though
God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on
behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

My point is, when all things are consummated, God will have a relationship
with everybody He has created. No one get's away with anything. They will
go into judgment, and be taught by the Overcomers, and therefore create a
relationship with their Master.

God will use the Lake of Fire (the second death), to accomplish His Purpose
and Plan of reconciling the world unto Himself. As Christians, we are taught
that after physical death, we have no more hope to have that relationship
that you were talking about.

We have been taught that God throws us away and torments us or destroys
us for eternity. The truth is, God will reconcil most of His Creation by the means
of judgment (the second death). God will purify them in His Fire, and they will
eventually become friendly to the things of God. The old man will be destroyed
for eternity, but the new man will live in eternity. Then will come to pass the words
of Paul, God is all in all.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[logabe]

Thank you for this information. I can meditate on this one. But I will comment that abiding in Christ and remaining in Christ both are done through faith and fellowship. Jesus said if we abide in Him we will bear fruit. One is the cause, the other the effect. Bearing fruit is a holy thing, since it is from and of God. It is our purpose in Him to bear fruit. There are some who insist that we abide in Him by bearing fruit. This is a reversal of cause and effect. It is role reversal. Blessings, Howie


I see universalism in this reply. You really want to go there? What about 2Cor.5:19,20? That passage reveals that even though God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, there is a pleading from God to the world to respond and be reconciled. The part that is flawed in the universalism message is that eternal life is a relationship with God. But in order to have meaningful relationship, it requires a willing participation from both parties. I use the same argument for both universalism and hyper-Calvinism. In either case the suggestion is that God literally forces Himself on people with no regard to whether or not they actually have any interest in knowing Him or acknowledging His plan and purpose. Both concepts disregard the free will of the individual. I use that term with my own understanding of it. I am speaking of man's ability to think, reason, and respond, and receive.

The passages that refer to all are talking about those who remain after all is said and done, and all those who go to perdition are removed from the picture. For those who don't respond well to the idea of forever human torment, I have a suggestion. Just take the words of God literally.

They will perish, be destroyed, die and not live forever (John 6:50,51). The word for it is extermination. One cannot just cherry pick their favorite verses and ignore other verses. Not without rendering the entire bible undependable.

You make this sound like it is permanent and God doesn't have anymore dealings
with them. But, Jesus said, they will be raised again @ the second resurrection to
be judged (John 5:28-29). That doesn't sound like they are exterminated or they
have been destroyed. It sounds like God is ready to correct them in the fire of God.

As I have said in earlier post that God uses judgment to correct the wicked. I get
that from Isa. 26:9, where God will establish His government in the Tabernacles Age
to judge the people by the Divine Law. They will be enlightened by the firery Law &
God will establish in their land, "which is their body", judgment, so they can learn to
do what is right according to the Law of God, as we do today.

God has established His Law in our hearts today, which is the New Covenant that He
is performing in us (Heb. 8:10-12). We are called the "First Fruits" because we have
responded to the call of the Spirit. If there is a first harvest, it stands to reason that
there must be at least another harvest. I believe there will be at least 3 harvest.

My point is, God isn't finished with His Creation because someone dies without knowing
Jesus Christ. There will be a 2nd resurrection and these people will learn the ways of
God & they will have a relationship with Jesus. That is why the whole creation is waiting
for the manifestation of the Sons of God (Romans 8:19-21).

God's Plan is to use the First Fruits in His government in the Tabernacles Age to teach the
people of the world the ways of God. Whole nations will come into the Kingdom to hear
the Words of the Overcomers, and be converted by allowing God to teach them about His
Kingdom (Isa. 2:2-4).

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[Axehead]

Romans 5:18 confirms that Jesus will ultimately bring all to a place of
rest.

18 So then as through one transgression there
resulted condemnation to all men, even so
through one act of righteousness there resulted
justification of life to all men.

We all can accept that Adam brought down the whole creation, as Paul
exclaimed to the Romans. What is hard for us to comprehend is the last
part of that scripture, "resulted in justication of life to all men".

You may say, yes, He did bring justication to all men, but all men want
accept Him. I agree with you, but that will only stand for awhile, because
we had nothing to do with what the 1st Adam did, but many are still paying
that debt. In essense, we are paying for a debt that our father Adam incured
upon the human race. Is that justice? According to the Law its not.

The great truth is: Adam's sin has brought death to all mankind. Mortality
is the result of Adam's sin, not our own. Conversely, Jesus' righteousness
has brought life to all mankind, and this immortality is the result of Christ's
act, not our own. Paul put it another way in 1st Cor. 15:22-23,

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will
be made alive.
23 But each in his own order : Christ the first fruits,
after that those who are Christ's at His coming,

In other words, Paul is telling us God will eventually bring all into the Kingdom,
but they will come in the order God has chosen. That is God's will, but do we
believe that God can perform His Will, or can man, devil, false prophet, cause
God's Will to be altered. Many believe that God just doesn't have the Power to
accomplish what He has promised to do, but I believe it will be done.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

I agree with you if you just take those verses by themselves. But the trouble with man-made doctrines is they build their doctrines on a few verses while ignoring other verses that give the full and proper meaning.

You must report all the news (Good News) and not take a person's (Jesus) words out of context to satisfy your own wishes.

People think grace is free, but following Jesus will cost you everything.

People think His love is unconditional, but there are many conditions that Jesus and the Apostles communicated to us.

We all need the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD, not just our favorite verses.

 

[Polt]

Jesus may never drive away anyone who follows Him. But, if you don't follow Him, you are lost. If you don't obey His commands, you're not following HIm. And, if you are lost, you have nothing to look forward to but judgement from an angry God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus may never drive away anyone who follows Him. But, if you don't follow Him, you are lost. If you don't obey His commands, you're not following HIm. And, if you are lost, you have nothing to look forward to but judgement from an angry God.

+1

 

[williemac]

You make this sound like it is permanent and God doesn't have anymore dealings
with them. But, Jesus said, they will be raised again @ the second resurrection to
be judged (John 5:28-29). That doesn't sound like they are exterminated or they
have been destroyed. It sounds like God is ready to correct them in the fire of God.

As I have said in earlier post that God uses judgment to correct the wicked. I get
that from Isa. 26:9, where God will establish His government in the Tabernacles Age
to judge the people by the Divine Law. They will be enlightened by the firery Law &
God will establish in their land, "which is their body", judgment, so they can learn to
do what is right according to the Law of God, as we do today.

God has established His Law in our hearts today, which is the New Covenant that He
is performing in us (Heb. 8:10-12). We are called the "First Fruits" because we have
responded to the call of the Spirit. If there is a first harvest, it stands to reason that
there must be at least another harvest. I believe there will be at least 3 harvest.

My point is, God isn't finished with His Creation because someone dies without knowing
Jesus Christ. There will be a 2nd resurrection and these people will learn the ways of
God & they will have a relationship with Jesus. That is why the whole creation is waiting
for the manifestation of the Sons of God (Romans 8:19-21).

God's Plan is to use the First Fruits in His government in the Tabernacles Age to teach the
people of the world the ways of God. Whole nations will come into the Kingdom to hear
the Words of the Overcomers, and be converted by allowing God to teach them about His
Kingdom (Isa. 2:2-4).

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

Excuse me, but you have erred in your timeline. The second resurrection takes place before the Great White Throne judgment and the ensuing second death in the lake of fire. One word that is used in reference to this place is "Gehenna". This word is found in Math.10:28, where Jesus says that both body and soul will be destroyed there. In that passage we see two deaths. In the first one the soul does not die. In the second one, it is destroyed.

As for judgment, it is used in several capacities. One cannot ignore this fact by merely referring to one capacity as though it is the only one. As for the second resurrection, we find that it happens just before the final judgment, after the thousand year reign of Christ. And it is not until that judgment that anyone goes to the lake of fire. Until then, the dead who are lost are in Hades.

As well, you use the term "first fruits" as though it is a harvest, and then make the determination that this is a first harvest. This is entirely fabricated reasoning.

What is being overlooked in this doctrine of yours is the comparison that is made between the two alternative possibilities that await a man. He will either live forever or die (John 6:50,51). He will either perish or have everlasting life (John3:16). If all mankind was always destined to live forever, then the passage in John 6 is deceptive, as well as John 3:16 if no one is destined to perish. These would be fabricated scenarios. Men might do and say such lies, but not God.

 

[jiggyfly]

we were all predestined for Heaven until a serpent intervened. only Jesus can justify and sanctify us for Heaven, once more. No human was predestined for Hell.

More so predestined to enjoy Father's presence and because of the glorious Christ all will so again at the restitution of all things. Because Father has preordained it, Hallelujah!

 

[Polt]

No. No. The bride is Jerusalem where all believers who overcome dwell. You are a very judgmental person - a sign of insecurity about what you believe.

You're right that the bride is Jerusalem. But, how do you figure that being "judgemental" is a sign of insecurity?

 

[Butch5]

I want to point out a couple of things right from Jesus mouth regarding our salvation and security.

It is intended to give us confidence and encouragement as Christians .

I have underlined it below ......


35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”



taken from John 6:35-40

Jesus Himself said one was lost.

 

[williemac]

You make this sound like it is permanent and God doesn't have anymore dealings
with them. But, Jesus said, they will be raised again @ the second resurrection to
be judged (John 5:28-29). That doesn't sound like they are exterminated or they
have been destroyed. It sounds like God is ready to correct them in the fire of God.

As I have said in earlier post that God uses judgment to correct the wicked. I get
that from Isa. 26:9, where God will establish His government in the Tabernacles Age
to judge the people by the Divine Law. They will be enlightened by the firery Law &
God will establish in their land, "which is their body", judgment, so they can learn to
do what is right according to the Law of God, as we do today.

God has established His Law in our hearts today, which is the New Covenant that He
is performing in us (Heb. 8:10-12). We are called the "First Fruits" because we have
responded to the call of the Spirit. If there is a first harvest, it stands to reason that
there must be at least another harvest. I believe there will be at least 3 harvest.

My point is, God isn't finished with His Creation because someone dies without knowing
Jesus Christ. There will be a 2nd resurrection and these people will learn the ways of
God & they will have a relationship with Jesus. That is why the whole creation is waiting
for the manifestation of the Sons of God (Romans 8:19-21).

God's Plan is to use the First Fruits in His government in the Tabernacles Age to teach the
people of the world the ways of God. Whole nations will come into the Kingdom to hear
the Words of the Overcomers, and be converted by allowing God to teach them about His
Kingdom (Isa. 2:2-4).

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

The second resurrection happens BEFORE the great white throne judgment. It happens BEFORE they are thrown into the lake of fire, not after. And it is not I that makes it sound like anything. I merely have shared what the passage says. It says that the two options are to live forever or to die. (John6:50,51). These are Jesus' words, not mine. If living forever happens to all, then He has lied.
This doctrine of yours is in fact universalism. Just because you have a different twist on it doesn't mean that the end result is different. You are saying that no human will be lost in the end. And as I have also shared, judgment is used for more than one thing. It can correct, it can chasten, it can condemn. It is inappropriate and incorrect to find just one use for it in scripture and use that as the rule of thumb in all cases. Blessings, Howie

 

[logabe]

Excuse me, but you have erred in your timeline. The second resurrection takes place before the Great White Throne judgment and the ensuing second death in the lake of fire. One word that is used in reference to this place is "Gehenna". This word is found in Math.10:28, where Jesus says that both body and soul will be destroyed there. In that passage we see two deaths. In the first one the soul does not die. In the second one, it is destroyed.

Yes... I know the 2nd resurrection takes place before the G.W.T., but the people that
lived in the past ages will be resurrected and judged according to their WORKS! Why?
Because they didn't submit themselves to the Spirit of God during their allotted time on
the earth, therefore they missed the 1st resurrection, because they didn't know they had
a savior.

In essense, they perished to the age of Tabernacles... they stayed in the grave for a 1000
years until the 2nd resurrection.



As for judgment, it is used in several capacities. One cannot ignore this fact by merely referring to one capacity as though it is the only one. As for the second resurrection, we find that it happens just before the final judgment, after the thousand year reign of Christ. And it is not until that judgment that anyone goes to the lake of fire. Until then, the dead who are lost are in Hades.

I agree... some will go to a lighter judgment... the ones that believe on the Lord, but
didn't overcome ( 1st Cor. 3:15 ). The rest of the unbelievers will be cast into the 2nd
death... to go through their correction.

My point is, we are going through correction right now, as God applies His Fire in our
lives with our personal trials and tribulations ( 1st Peter 4:12-13 ), ( James 1:12 ).

As well, you use the term "first fruits" as though it is a harvest, and then make the determination that this is a first harvest. This is entirely fabricated reasoning.

When Jesus comes a 2nd time, He is coming to harvest the overcomers, which are
the first fruits ( Matt. 13:39 ). In order to understand the First Fruits terminology,
we must study the feast days. At Passover the first fruits were given to God. Fifty
days later God was given the first fruits of the wheat, which was Pentecost. In the
fall, God was given the first fruits of the vine ( grapes), which is, the Tabernacles
feast.

These 3 feast represent our maturity as becoming overcomes in the Kingdom of God.
If we allow God to work inside us with His Fire ( Word ), then, we will quality for the
1st resurrection and the 2nd death will have no power over us.

Jesus was the first of the First Fruits ( 1st Cor. 15:20 ), in other words, He was the first
to put on immortality. But, it doesn't stop there, because James said, we should be a
kind of firstfruits of His creatures ( James 1:18).

What is being overlooked in this doctrine of yours is the comparison that is made between the two alternative possibilities that await a man. He will either live forever or die (John 6:50,51). He will either perish or have everlasting life (John3:16). If all mankind was always destined to live forever, then the passage in John 6 is deceptive, as well as John 3:16 if no one is destined to perish. These would be fabricated scenarios. Men might do and say such lies, but not God.

No, as I have said before, most of the world will perish to the Age of Tabernacles or
as you call it, the 1000 year reign. But, my point is, after the 1000 year reign of the
Overcomers, the people that perished to that Age will be raised for the purpose of
correcting them. God has the power of resurrection and He has the power to make
alive. Death is not eternal... it is a temporary solution until God begins the process
of the restoration of all things spoken of in Acts 3:21.

Another point I would like to make is... how can death be eternal when Paul said, that
the last enemy that will be destoyed is DEATH. Don't take my word for it, but read it
for yourself in 1st Cor 15:26. Now wait a minute... if God is going to destroy death, how
could He possibly do it if most people are going to be in the 2nd death for eternity
according to most of the Christian leaders? Could Paul had made a mistake in saying
that in the end, the last thing God will do is destroy DEATH? How do you destroy death?

BY GIVING LIFE!!!

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe