Jews

[BibleScribe]

Hi n2thelight,

Please see my previous post. :)


BibleScribe

 

[TheWarIs1]

You are just reaching. You don't have a grasp of the languages so you just lash out with anything.
Folly isn't in this biblical argument, you just can't answer because it goes against the things you've accepted as truth.
Seriously a bible Scribe you are not and a biblestudent you are lacking sound exegesis and arguments.
Change that moniker

 

[n2thelight]

The Bible Distinction between "The House of Israel" and "The House of Judah"

by F. F. Bosworth



Today there is much teaching on the subject of prophecy, and it is important that there should be. It is very important for every student of prophecy, in fact, it is absolutely necessary for their understanding, to see the distinction the Bible makes between the Jews and the other Tribes of Israel. Until this distinction between the two Houses, Israel and Judah, as that distinction is taught in the Scriptures, is clearly understood, a great portion of the Bible will remain a closed book. This clear distinction between the two Houses is never lost sight of in the Bible, and until it is understood, it is impossible to follow the truth of Scripture on this subject, or to understand the Bible story of Israel. If we had time we could show you that ignorance of this distinction is responsible for much of the infidelity today. Because the pre-millennial promises God made to the "House of Israel" have not been fulfilled to the "House of Judah," they have accused God of unfaithfulness. [1]

Many people today suppose that where Israel is mentioned in the Bible, it means the Jews. We read articles and hear sermons today in which the writers and speakers refer to "Abraham, the Jew." Isaac and Jacob are often called Jews, the most absurd and impossible thing as we shall see from the Scriptures. It is a common thing today to hear ministers and writers use such phrases as the following:

"The Jews in Egypt"
"The Exodus of the Jews"
"The Jews at Mt. Sinai"
"When the Jews entered Canaan"
"Twelve Tribes of the Jews"
"Abraham, the Jew"

Thousands of Christians use the terms "Israel," and "Jew," "The House of Israel," "The House of Judah," employing these and similar words and phrases as if they always referred to the same people. They do not know that according to Biblical history, there were no "Jews" known as such until about 15 centuries after Abraham was born, and until 600 years after the death of Moses.

Most Hebrews not Jews​

Beginning with Adam, we have the start, not only of chronology, but of the genealogical tables of the Bible. There are ten generations from Adam to Noah, and ten generations from Shem (Noah’s son) to Abraham. Eber or Heber was in the fourth generation from Shem. All of the descendants of Heber were Hebrews. Abraham was six generations later. He, therefore, was a Hebrew. The Hebrews were not Jews, because Judah, from whom the Jews descended, was not yet born.[2] When the time came that there were Jews on the earth, of course, they also were Hebrews - a very small portion of them - but the great mass of Hebrews were not Jews, and are not today. Let us closely follow the facts.

"Abraham had eight sons. One son was Ishmael whose mother was Hagar. One son was Isaac, whose mother was Sarah. After Sarah’s death, Abraham married Keturah, and she bore unto him six sons. Abraham, being a Hebrew, or descendant of Heber, his descendants would of course be Hebrews, and their descendants would also be Hebrews, but their descendants are not Jews. If they are, then Ishmael would have been a Jew and that would make the Arabs Jews. . . It would be foolish to declare that they are Jews, although as the descendants of Abraham, they are of the stock of Heber, and therefore Hebrews. The same reasoning applies to Isaac, Isaac was a Hebrew, the son of Abraham. Now Isaac had two sons, Esau and Jacob. If Isaac was a Jew, then both Esau and Jacob would be Jews. This would make the descendants of Esau also Jews, but the descendants of Esau became the Edomites, later the Turks; also the Pharaohs of the oppression were of the Esau line [3], but none of these people are Jews."

To call Abraham a Jew would make him a descendant of Isaac’s yet unborn grandson Judah. The Tribe of Judah had no existence on earth during the time of Abraham and Isaac. If Isaac was a Jew, then surely his twin sons, Jacob and Esau would be Jews. We all know that Esau, Jacob’s twin brother, became the progenitor of the Turks, as they are known today.[3] If Jacob was a Jew, how could it be that his twin brother would not be, since they were both born of the same father and mother?

Descendants do not name their Ancestors​

Jacob, one of these twin brothers had 12 sons, which came from four different mothers. None of these 12 sons were Jews. One of his 12 sons was Judah, but in the sense in which we use the word "Jew" today, the term cannot be applied to Judah, for "he was not a Jew," because of the fact that they whom we call Jews today have certain characteristics and are racially a type that came into existence hundreds of years after Israel left Egypt. This racial type or remnant we know as the Jews is only a small portion of the descendants of Judah, who was only one of the 12 sons of Jacob.[4] There are no Jews among any of the descendants of Jacob’s other 11 sons. Now Judah had [three sons Er, and Onan, and Shelah, by his wife, and] twins by Tamar. The descendants of one son, Zarah, peopled the shores of the Mediterranean, leaving Egypt before the exodus of the children of Israel. Pharez, the twin brother of Zarah, became the progenitor of the tribe of Judah. The tribe of Judah descending from Pharez was divided by the Lord into two Houses – the "House of David" and the "House of Judah."

Abraham was the father of Isaac; Isaac was the father of Jacob; Jacob, who was later named "Israel," became the father of Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphthali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin. The 12 sons each became the head of a Tribe called after his own personal name. From Judah, the fourth son of Jacob, are descended the Jews; the word "Jew" being simply an abbreviation of the name "Judah." [5] A glance at the genealogy will show that it is impossible for Abraham, or Isaac, or Jacob, to have been Jews. Only the descendants of Judah – those coming after him, could be called by his name – not his ancestors. No one had ever been named "Judah" until more than 200 years after Abraham was named. Suppose your parents gave you the name of Charles. That does not name your ancestors, who lived two hundred years before you, Charles. And naming Jacob’s fourth son Judah would not make Abraham, his great grandfather, a Jew.

Israel and Judah Separate Nations​

The 12 Tribes of Israel became two nations, with widely different destinies, until the time when they will be united in the coming age (Ezekiel 37:22). The distinction or separation between Judah and Israel was foreshadowed at an early date. We read in Psalm 114:1-2 "When Israel went out of Egypt. . . Judah was His sanctuary and Israel His dominion." In Samuel’s day, the two Houses, Judah and Israel, were numbered separately. In I Samuel 11:8 we read "And when he numbered them in Bezek, the children of Israel were three hundred thousands and the men of Judah thirty thousand." Notice that even at this early date, Israel numbered ten times more than Judah. The Numerical contrast today is very much greater. The Bible tells us that the Jews would be "few in number" (Ezekiel 5:3), but it tells us that Israel would be as the sands of the sea for multitudes (Hosea 1:10). The Scriptures tell us that David reigned seven years over Judah before he was made King over Israel (II Samuel 5:5). If Judah and Israel are the same, how could David be king for seven years over Judah before he was made King over Israel? Until the year 975BC the descendants of Jacob formed one nation. But they are spoken of as "the two families which the Lord hath chosen" (Jeremiah 33:24).

In the year 975BC at the death of King Solomon, the nation was divided into two nations. In I Samuel 18:16 the expression "All Israel" is used, when Judah is excluded. I will quote you this passage: "But all Israel and Judah loved David, because he went out and came in before them." In II Chronicles 10:12-14 we are told that when Solomon died, and his son Rehoboam came to the throne, the ten tribes rebelled, and under Jeroboam, formed the NORTHERN NATION; while Judah, along with Benjamin and certain Levites, formed the SOUTHERN NATION.

The NORTHERN NATION, which consisted of the Ten Tribes, was known under the following national titles: Israel, Ephraim, Isaac, Samaria, The House of Israel, The House of Judah and The Ten Tribes.

The Division was of God​

The SOUTHERN NATION, which consisted of the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin, was known as "Judah," "The House of Judah" or "The Jews." The capital of the SOUTHERN NATION was Jerusalem. If I had more time, I would quote you the Scriptures which show that this division of the Tribes of Israel into two nations was Divinely Predetermined, Divinely Predicted, Divinely Emphasized, Divinely Maintained, Divinely Accomplished, Divinely Explained, Divinely Approved. The Scriptures show that this division into Two Kingdoms had behind it and controlling it, the fore-ordaining eternal councils of God; and it took place for great, beneficent, well-defined and Divine reasons.

In Jeremiah the third chapter, Israel is five times called "Backsliding Israel," a term never once applied to Judah, and Judah is four times called "Treacherous Judah," a term not once applied to Israel. I will read you this passage: "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby BACKSLIDING Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also" (Jeremiah 3:8). Ask those who declare that Israel and Judah are the same people to read that passage, analyzing it in the light of their belief. And there are many such passages showing the clear distinction between Israel and Judah. There are more than 2,000 references to Israel in the Bible that have no reference whatever to the Jews. On the other hand, there are more than five hundred references to Judah that have no reference to Israel, and yet there are those continually trying to tell us there is no distinction between Israel and Judah, and continually refer to Israel as Jews, and even change the name of Judah to Israel. It is absurd as to use the words America and England interchangeably.

Here is another quotation for them to explain: "Backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah." Make Israel and Judah one and the same people referred to, and the statement becomes ridiculous. Many today are evidently unacquainted with the fact that, according to Biblical history, there was not a single "Jew" known as such upon the face of the earth earlier than 600 years after the death of Moses, or about 1,500 years after Abraham was born. There were, of course, Hebrews and Israelites long before that time; Abraham and Isaac were Hebrews; but they were neither Israelites nor Jews. The 12 sons of Jacob were Hebrews and Israelites, but they were not Jews. The same may be said of Moses and Aaron, of the people of the Northern Kingdom, of Elijah and Elisha. To avoid confusion over the expression "Israel" it is necessary to determine in which sense it is used in any particular passage, whether it means: (1) "The whole of the Twelve Tribes; (2) Or the House of Judah alone as being a part of the Twelve Tribes; (3) Or the Ten-Tribed Kingdom."

Ten Tribed Israel never called Jews​

Nothing can be more unscriptural than to call all Israelites "Jews;" it is as absurd as calling all Americans Californians.[6] Most Israelites are not Jews because they are the descendants of the other tribes of Israel. There is just as much reason for calling all Israelites "Danites" or "Gadites" or "Ephraimites" as there is for calling them Judahites or "Jews." It is just as reasonable to call all "Jews" "Danites" as it is to call all "Danites" "Jews." The term Jew is never used until more than a thousand years after Abraham. It appears for the first time in II Kings 16:6, where we are told that the King of Israel, together with the King of Assyria, made war against the King of Judah.[6] Now since in this passage Israel, one Kingdom, made war against the Jews, another Kingdom, how can they both be the Jews? The Scriptures never once refer to the Ten-Tribed House of Israel as "The Jews;" neither past, present, nor future. The term "The Jews" is never, in God’s Word, applied to the 12 Tribes, collectively, or to the Ten-Tribed House of Israel.

Bishop J. A. Allen of California, speaking of this modern confusion which we are discussing writes: "For ecclesiastical writers to ignore the national and racial representative Israelitish names of Joseph, Ephraim, and Samaria (the name of Israel’s former capital city, as used in history and prophecy), and to substitute "The Jews" either as a name or as a people, calling them the sole representatives of Israel’s race, is not only the height of ignorance, but THE GREAT ECCLESIASTICAL CRIME OF THE AGES. Truly an enemy hath done this."

In Jeremiah 13:11, nearly 400 years after the tribes were divided by God into the two kingdoms, "The Whole House of Israel" and "The Whole House of Judah" are both spoken of in the same verse, proving that neither House without the other constitutes all of the Lord’s chosen people. "The Whole House of Judah" are not all of the Lord’s people, and "The Whole House of Israel" are not all of the Lord’s people. It takes "The Whole House of Israel" together with "The Whole House of Judah" to make all of God’s chosen people; and comparatively few of these are Jews. This text proves conclusively that there is a people called the "Whole House of Israel" of which the "Whole House of Judah" is regarded as neither part nor parcel. The Holy Spirit has never either in Biblical history or prophecy, called the 10 Tribed House of Israel "Jews." They have never been called "Jews" except by uninformed and unscriptural teachers.

Birthright People are not Jews​

The fact that Jacob’s two wives, Leah and Rachel, are spoken of as "building the House of Israel," of necessity divides the immediate household of Jacob into "two families." In Jeremiah 33:24 they are spoken of as "the two families which the Lord hath chosen." The Covenant promise of the BIRTHRIGHT was given to one of these families, and that of the SCEPTRE to the other family. Rachel was to be the mother of "thousands of millions" while Leah was to be the mother of royalty. Genesis 49:10 shows us that Judah represents the SCEPTRE family; and I Chronicles 5:2 tells us "THE BIRTHRIGHT is Joseph’s." Never try to apply a BIRTHRIGHT blessing to the Jews. Judah and the Jews were excluded from the BIRTHRIGHT promises, Joseph from the SCEPTRE. The BIRTHRIGHT people are not, and are never in the Scriptures called Jews.

In Ezekiel the 37th chapter we are told that "the two sticks" which are still separate, but which are yet to be reunited, represent Judah on the one hand, and Joseph and the "House of Israel" on the other. One of these sticks represents the SCEPTRE people and the other the BIRTHRIGHT people. Judah, the inheritor of the SCEPTRE, is only a half bother to Joseph, the inheritor of the BIRTHRIGHT. The SCEPTRE and the BIRTHRIGHT inheritors are "two families" with different mothers. How could the distinction between the SCEPTRE and the BIRTHRIGHT families Judah and Israel be more emphatic?

Israel distinct from Judah​

Unless we see the distinction between the "House of Israel" and the "House of Judah" from the time of the division till the final and glorious reunion of the Two Houses, which will take place at the end of the "latter days," the prophecies concerning Israel cannot be understood (Ezekiel 38:17). From the time of the division into two kingdoms until now, Judah and Israel have remained absolutely distinct. They were carried into captivity separately, at different times and by different nations, because Israel was taken into captivity by the Assyrians, 721BC (II Kings 17:6); while Judah was carried into captivity 133 years later by the Babylonians 588BC (II Kings 25:21). A portion of Judah returned after 70 years, as had been predicted (Ezra 2:1), but Israel never returned, nor was there any prediction that she would return until the final, glorious, restoration in the near future. All the prophecies were written after the division of the tribes into two nations; and these prophecies give the whole future of Israel as entirely distinct from Judah.

The great Jewish historian Josephus, writing from Rome in the year 70AD which was nearly 800 years after Israel was taken into captivity by the Assyrians says: "The entire body of the ten Tribes are still beyond the Euphrates, an immense multitude not to be estimated by number" (Antiquities of the Jews, xi.5,2). . .

Rev. Canon Faucett M.A. says in his "Critical and Expository Bible Encyclopedia" The idea that the House of Israel has been amalgamated and incorporated with the "Jews," is one of the most amazing errors in Biblical History.

The prophets write of Israel and Judah still being separate people in "the latter days," or the days of the Gospel dispensation. In the 37th chapter of Ezekiel is a prophecy yet to be fulfilled. God promising to unite the stick of Joseph, representing the House of Israel with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick in His hand. This and many other Scriptures require that Israel and Judah be kept separate until this union which has not yet taken place.

According to the prophet Hosea, the House of Israel in the last days was to become as the sands of the sea for number, before their reunion with the House of Judah, and their return, representatively, to Palestine (Hosea 1:10-11). Also Jeremiah writes: "When ye be multiplied and increased in the land in those days. . . the House of Judah shall walk with the House of Israel and they shall come together out of the land of the north, to the land that I gave for an inheritance unto your Fathers" (Jeremiah 3:16-18).

In Jeremiah 30:3-4 we have a prophecy yet to be fulfilled concerning the uniting of the two Houses. Here we read: "For the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of MY PEOPLE Israel and Judah; and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers and they shall possess it. And these are the Words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah." Here God calls Israel and Judah "My People Israel and Judah." So if Judah, the Jews, are the people of the Lord, then the Lord has a people besides the Jews whom He calls Israel and who are not counted among the Jews.

Long before the division took place, Moses, while prophesying unto the seed of Jacob, cried out: "Hear, Lord, the voice of Judah and bring him unto his people. . ." (Deuteronomy 33:7). This plainly shows that Judah was to be separated from his people and finally brought back to them. And the Scriptures tell us that shall not be until at the end of "the last days."

No Evidence for Amalgamation Theory​

Orthodox Jews, even to this day, know that they do not represent the Ten-Tribed House of Israel. On the day of the Feast of Trumpets and on the Day of Atonement, they include in their prayer Jeremiah 31:20, and pray that Ephraim, Israel (the Ten-Tribes), may be united with them. If we had time, we could quote from the testimony of Jewish scholars, and from their literature, showing that they know they are not representatives of the Ten-Tribed House of Israel. We have quotations from the "Jewish Encyclopedia," "The Jewish Religion," "The Jewish Chronicle," Rabbi Gershom, Professor Neubauer, "The History and Literature of the Israelites," "The Jewish Quarterly Review," etc. The Chief Rabbi of the British Empire, Dr. Hertz, of London, says: "People known at present as Jews are descendants of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin. . . we look forward to the gathering of all the Tribes at some future date." The learned Isaac Leiser says that "The Israelitish nation was left in banishment after the return of the Jews from Babylon." Professor Neubauer wrote: "The hope of the return of the ten tribes has never ceased among the Jews in exile." Josephus, a Jew, and loyal to Jewish history and tradition, wrote about 70AD or about 800 years after the captivity of Ten-Tribed Israel as follows: "The ten tribes did not return to Palestine; only two Tribes served the Romans after Palestine became a Roman province" (Antiquities of the Jews, xi.5,2).[7]

Jeremiah prophesied that only they who were taken by Nebuchadnezzar to Babylon were to return. Then the historical fulfillment of that prophecy must see only a return of those taken to Babylon. Both Ezra and Nehemiah testify to the fact that historically only those taken by Nebuchadnezzar to Babylon did return (Ezra 2; Nehemiah 7).

The return to Palestine of the ten Tribes at any time in the past is contrary to Kings and Chronicles, contrary to Ezra, Nehemiah, Zechariah, Jerome and Josephus, and to history. In the prophecy that the "two Sticks," Judah, and the House of Israel will become "one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one King (the Lord Jesus Christ) shall be King to them all" we have Divine proof that the two Houses are still separate, because Christ is not reigning over them as King at the present time.

In connection with the return of the Jews from Babylon, Nehemiah says: "I saw Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, and of Ammon, and of Moab," (Nehemiah 13:23). Ezra declares the same fact, naming the Hittites as among those with whom marriages were consummated. In Ezra 9:1-2 Ezra says "They have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed has mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hands of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass." You can see how the facial expressions of all the descendants of these intermarriages would differ from that of the pure descendants of Judah, and still more from the BIRTHRIGHT TRIBES who were only half brothers of Judah to begin with.

When Jesus told the Jews in His day that he would go where they could not find Him, though they should seek for Him, the Jews, knowing of Israel still in dispersion, inquired: "Will He go to the dispersed among the Gentiles? (John 7:35). This passage shows that the Jews knew that the Ten Tribes were still in dispersion among the Gentiles. [8]

God divided the Abrahamic promises among Jacob’s twelve sons, and when He said through Jacob that Ephraim’s "Seed shall become a multitude of nations." He was not referring to the Jews who never have or ever will be "a multitude of nations," God was speaking to the BIRTHRIGHT heirs. The "Nation and a Company of Nations" promised in Genesis 35:11 was a BIRTHRIGHT BLESSING TO BE FULFILLED in the "last days" before Christ’s Return (Genesis 49:1) to Joseph and his descendants (I Chronicles 5:1), none of which are Jews. In Jeremiah 31:9, God said, "Ephraim is My firstborn," and in Genesis 48:19, Jacob said of Ephraim, "His seed shall become a multitude of nations" - just the opposite of what was said of Judah - "He shall become a remnant." That this promise to Israel was not to Judah is proven by the fact that Judah has never been a multitude of nations, and never will be. And so, more than 2,000 times God refers to Israel when what He says has no more to do with the Jews than with the Germans, or the Italians or the Chinese, or the Russians. On the other hand, the word "Jew" is mentioned 265 times, and in no instance does it refer to the Northern Kingdom of Israel or to any of their descendants.

The Amalgamation Theory receives no Support from Holy Scripture​

The book of Micah plainly teaches that the Jews who "halted" were to become "a remnant," while Israel "that was cast far off," was to become "a strong nation" (Micah 4:7). The bringing together of these "two families" is to be associated with the Kingdom-Age.[9] Till then, they would be separate. Some errors are slow in dying but this amalgamation-assumption which falsifies hundreds of Scriptures is now only lingering upon its death bed.

It is important to notice that neither the Major nor the Minor Prophets appear in the Old Testament until about 200 years after the division of the Twelve Tribes into two nations. What then did they find was the condition of God’s chosen race? Was there any sign of amalgamation among them? Not a scintilla. The prophets found them still divided into two nations; as separate as France and Italy, or Britain and America. They had separate Kings, separate administrations, separate national alliances, and of course, separate national titles. The National title of the Ten Tribes was "Israel," or "Ephraim," because the Tribe of Ephraim had become the Tribe of the Birthright owing to the sin of Reuben. We have seen that the national title of the other two tribes was "Judah," a remnant of which were later called "The Jews."

It was during this state of affairs that the prophets commenced their ministry - some residing in the territory of Israel, and others in that of Judah. The Prophets addressed these two nations by the names that God gave them - "Israel" being the title which the Northern Nation had decided to retain; and "Judah" being the title which the Southern Nation had decided to assume. Hence we find that all through their writings, whether of warning, of rebuking, or directing, or consoling; and whether their Words were historical or prophetical, the prophets recognized the separate condition of the Two Nations, and accordingly addressed them by their chosen and well-known national titles.

Ten Tribed Israel a Non-Jewish People​

The separation into the Two Nations took place many years before any of the major or minor prophets wrote; therefore, the "Israel" known to Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, the minor prophets, our Lord, the evangelists, and the apostles, had no Tribe of Judah in it. Israel, as known to all of these writers, was a non-Jewish people. Israel has remained a non-Jewish people to this day. The amalgamation theory is hopelessly discredited in the presence of the Bible. The closing books of Bible history leave Israel and Judah in separation from each other, while Bible prophecy keeps them separated until reconciled and united in the Kingdom-Age, and are dwelling representatively in the Holy Land under the personal reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, their welcomed and Crowned Messiah.

Hosea’s statement that Israel shall be "as the sand of the sea which cannot be measured nor numbered" is not made concerning Judah (Hosea 1:10). In the first chapter we read "Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel." Did the two nations of captives "gather together" and amalgamate while in the land of their captivities? Did they "together appoint themselves one head" when the small remnant of Judah returned from Babylon? Both Ezra and Nehemiah, who were the historians of the Babylonian return, inform us that this was not the case.

That this uniting of Judah and Israel did not take place when the remnant of Judah returned after the Babylonian captivity, is clearly proved by Jeremiah’s prophecy in the third chapter where we are told that "The House of Judah shall walk with the House of Israel and they shall come together out of the land of the North to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers" (Jeremiah 3:18). Nothing like this has yet taken place. The 17th verse of this chapter shows us that when Israel and Judah unite, Jerusalem will be so fully under Divine truth and influence that she will be called "The Throne of Jehovah." This shows us that this uniting of the Two Houses has not yet taken place, and when it does it will not be a Jewish Nation. It will be the Israel Nation.

Of this reunion of Israel and Judah, Jeremiah in the 50th chapter and 4th verse says, "In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together: They shall go on their way weeping, and shall seek the Lord their God."[10] It was not in "the former days" but at the end of "the latter days" [after the "seven times" or 2,520 years punishment of both Houses has run out] that this is prophesied to take place; and if Israel is already amalgamated with Judah - this and other prophecies can never be fulfilled. Jeremiah goes on to say in the 20th verse, "In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found; for I will pardon them whom I leave as a remnant." We all know that such a return and union of Israel and Judah has never yet taken place.

Return "Together out of the Land of the North" ​

According to the amalgamation theory, which has no support of the Scripture, Israel would have gone south to join Judah instead of Judah going north to join Israel for Jeremiah says "In those days, The House of Judah shall walk with the House of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers." We know that this has never yet happened. This is not true even of Judah’s return from Babylon. They returned from the south. When Israel and Judah become "one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, they are to have one King and be no more two nations" says Ezekiel (37:22). That this uniting of Israel and Judah was not in the past is again proven by the fact that the Jews have never had a King since they went into Babylonian captivity. As a matter of undeniable fact, there never has been, to this very day, a Davidic King reigning in the Holy Land from the year 586BC, when the temple was destroyed, and the House of Judah was carried away captive to Babylon. Anyhow it was not of any human monarch that Ezekiel wrote when his prophetic vision spanned the gulf of ages, and he beheld the glories of the Crowned Redeemer and of His ransomed, restored, and united Israel. Ezekiel had reference to Him of whose Second Coming we read; "And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS" (Revelation 19:16).

And then, I ask, did the returned captives abide in the land "forever"? The prophet tells us that when Israel and Judah are reunited, their descendants were to be in perpetual occupation of the land. We know that this has never taken place because the Jews were suddenly driven out in AD70, and have been wanderers for 18 centuries. This shows again that the Ten Tribes did not go back with the Jews when they returned from Babylon.

Jerome was one of the most eminent of the early fathers of the Church. He wrote, in the 4th century, which was more than a thousand years after Ten Tribed Israel went into captivity as follows: "Unto this day, the ten Tribes are subject to the Kings of Persia" — "The Ten Tribes inhabit at this day the cities and mountains of the Medes." He knew that Israel had not returned to Judah, that the ten tribes were still separated from the Jews.

Ezra, in the 2nd chapter and the 1st verse, shows us that those who returned to Jerusalem were all from one "province." This word is in the singular. This is proof that the House of Israel who were captive not in this "province," but in another country, did not return.

In the book of Ezra, which mentions the two tribes that returned, none of the Ten Tribes were listed. And in the book of Nehemiah, which says that only Judah and Benjamin returned, none of the Ten Tribes are mentioned.

In Zechariah the 10th chapter, which was written 18 years after the Jews had returned from Babylon, the prophet shows that when he wrote, the Two Houses of Israel and Judah were still separate. And then all His prophecies concerning Israel require that they shall be kept separate from Judah as a people until their future uniting. On page 500 of the Scofield Bible, Dr. Scofield says, "The two Kingdoms are to be reunited in the future Kingdom" and then cites a number of Scriptures to prove the assertion.[11]

The amalgamation-theory is hopeless. It is a mere assumption.All who hold that theory will have to abandon it if they follow the testimony of Holy Scripture. If they adhere to their theory they will be in conflict with the Word of God, and with all the historical facts. Their theory breaks down at every point. None of those who hold that Israel was amalgamated with the Jews can tell you when the amalgamation took place. Just so the Scriptures, which require that Israel shall be a great military power in the last days, cannot be applied to the Jews; and they are not applicable to Israel during the Millennium when there will be no wars. These promises are premillennial, and not consistent with millennial times.[12]

The many Scriptures also which require that Israel in these last days shall be a maritime people "whose seed shall be in many waters" cannot be applied to the Jews; but they apply perfectly to the BIRTHRIGHT section of Isaac’s descendants to whom the promises were made.[13]

We have seen in other broadcasts that Jerusalem was trodden down of the Gentiles exactly "seven times" or 2,520 years to the very day. Obadiah in the 17th verse speaks of the soldiers under General Allenby, who delivered Jerusalem from the Turks on the exact day and in the exact manner in which God says Jerusalem would be delivered, as belonging to the House of Jacob (verse 17). The next verse shows us what part of "The House of Jacob" they were — "The House of Joseph." And the next verse shows what part of the House of Joseph they were "Ephraim;" and in the same verse He speaks of them as "the children of Israel." Also in Ezekiel 25:14 God shows us that it would be Israel who would drive out the Turks and end the "treading down of the Gentiles" in Palestine. To insist that these Scriptures addressed to Israel are to be applied to the Jews is to call the soldiers of General Allenby Jews.[14]

Thus, you see that if we were to discuss each of the hundreds of Bible references to Israel as distinct from the Jews, it would furnish matter for a large volume.

In the authorized daily prayer book of the United Hebrew Congregation of the British Empire, there are three prayers which they pray for Israel as distinct from themselves. They pray both for "Judah" and "Israel." In one of these prayers they speak of Ephraim-Israel as "our brethren." Dr. V. Herman Adler, who in the past was chief rabbi of the Jewish Church in England, wrote: "The Ten Tribes did not return to the Holy Land."
In this discussion over the air, we have given you but a small part of the Biblical and historical proof of the distinction between Israel and Judah. We have scarcely touched upon the many wonderful prophecies concerning "Israel" which have no reference to the Jews, nor upon those relating to "Judah" which have no reference to Israel. To discuss these even briefly would furnish material for a good sized book.

For instance, to apply to the Jews the many Scriptures which require that the descendants of Ephraim shall be "a multitude (or Commonwealth) of Nations" (Genesis 48:19) in these "last days," before the union of the Two Houses, Judah and Israel, would be equivalent to saying that the only "Commonwealth of Nations" on earth today are Jews. The Anglo-Saxon Nations are Isaac’s sons or Saxons, but they are not Jews. Only one of the twelve Tribes are descendants of Judah. The Promise of "A Multitude of Nations" was made to Ephraim, not to Judah.

Again, Genesis 48:19 shows us that two great rival nations were to spring from Joseph "in the last days." To insist on applying this Scripture to the Jews, is equivalent to calling these great rival nations Jews.


Think Im done with this,believe as you will,as it is evident you don't believe the Word of God

 

[Christian1488]

Why do you keep asking me questions. Scripture says I can't answer you:



Proverbs 26:4 (KJV)


[sup]4[/sup]Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.



BibleScribe

You can't answer a question/s regarding scripture?
Can you answer how the marks of Israel connect with the white Europeans and not the Jews,I mean if the Jews really were Israel,it would be a simple task for you,but so far YOU HAVE AVOIDED IT!

http://www.israelect.com/reference/JackMohr/JM050.htm - THE MARKS OF ISRAEL


Can you answer these or choose to avoid? so far it looks to me like you can't answer what would be SIMPLE questions(if the Jews were Israel)

Israel to become a company of nations. Gen. 17:4-6, 15,16; 35:11; 48:19; Eph. 2:12. - The Jews are not a company of nations but white Europeans are-Why?

do you Just blindly state the Jews are Israel?

The 1905 JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol. 21, page 249 reads: "If the Ten Tribes have disappeared, they must exist UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME." Again, they must be a people NOT called "Jews."

 

[Duckybill]

So,It's up to you to decide what is racist and what is not? to say a Christian ideology is racist when you know nothing about it?

Racist statement!!!!!!!

Deuteronomy 7:6:For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Deuteronomy 10:15:Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.

Tell me this--The Jews are not a company of nations,why? (White Europeans are a company of nations,look at a map of Europe etc etc)

Like I said, I have known several 'Christian Identity' believers. They are EXTREME racists.

The Nation of Israel is back to stay.

"White Europeans"? What does that have to do with anything?

 

[BibleScribe]

Like I said, I have known several 'Christian Identity' believers. They are EXTREME racists.

The Nation of Israel is back to stay.

"White Europeans"? What does that have to do with anything?

AMEN, -- and once again, please allow me to provide my Post #214 comment:


It is the epitome of self grandeur for some to suppose they are the center of the earth. And certainly where these believe that of Christianity, GOD has preserved his Chosen for their appointed completion:

Romans 11
[sup]25[/sup]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[sup]26[/sup]And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[sup]27[/sup]For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

So for the ignorant and self-centered individuals, put away your conceit and accept that GOD blinded the Jews for a season so that you could join that relationship.



BibleScribe

 

[Duckybill]

AMEN, -- and once again, please allow me to provide my Post #214 comment:

It is the epitome of self grandeur for some to suppose they are the center of the earth. And certainly where these believe that of Christianity, GOD has preserved his Chosen for their appointed completion:

Romans 11
[sup]25[/sup]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[sup]26[/sup]And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[sup]27[/sup]For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

So for the ignorant and self-centered individuals, put away your conceit and accept that GOD blinded the Jews for a season so that you could join that relationship.
BibleScribe

Now that is a fact indeed.

Ezekiel 36:24-28 (NKJV)
24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Yes Lord, You certainly will!

 

[BibleScribe]

Now that is a fact indeed.

Ezekiel 36:24-28 (NKJV)
24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Yes Lord, You certainly will!

Duckybill,

It appears that some in this Forum have a different ~father~ that others. And where you and I not only follow Scripture, but we do so in the light of the Holy Spirit. These others follow a different spirit, -- the one who comes to Steal, Kill, and Destroy.

And so their fruit is evident to all who know the TRUTH. :)


Your Friend,
BS

 

[Duckybill]

Duckybill,

It appears that some in this Forum have a different ~father~ that others. And where you and I not only follow Scripture, but we do so in the light of the Holy Spirit. These others follow a different spirit, -- the one who comes to Steal, Kill, and Destroy.

And so their fruit is evident to all who know the TRUTH. :)

Your Friend,
BS

The one REALLY great thing about the internet is that it reveals men's hearts. I believe it is part of God's plan for the last days.

Daniel 12:4 (NKJV)
4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

Ain't it the Truth!

 

[BibleScribe]

The one REALLY great thing about the internet is that it reveals men's hearts. I believe it is part of God's plan for the last days.

Daniel 12:4 (NKJV)
4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

Ain't it the Truth!

Hey DB,

LOL, -- That's exactly the TRUTH! For what generation had such capabilities for travel and information as this one? And one could further consider the technological implication of:

Rev. 1:7
[sup]7[/sup]Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


Certainly the birth pangs are coming closer together!

BS

 

[Duckybill]

Certainly the birth pangs are coming closer together!

Absolutely!

 

[Christian1488]

Bible Scribe,

How does that explain the marks of Israel?



Israel to lose all trace of her lineage. Isa. 42:16-19; Hos. 1:9, 10; 2:6; Rom. 11:25. - The Jews always defend they are the chosen people,so how can they fulfill this mark? They surely cannot be blinded to that?

 

[Christian1488]

Now that is a fact indeed.

Ezekiel 36:24-28 (NKJV)
24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Yes Lord, You certainly will!

The Jews state they are the chosen people so how are they blinded?
You have made the false connection that modern Israel is old Israel,Romans 11


Why are the White Europeans fulfilling the marks of Israel and not the Jews? Do you have answers to that?
http://www.israelect.com/reference/JackMohr/JM050.htm

 

[Christian1488]

Like I said, I have known several 'Christian Identity' believers. They are EXTREME racists.

The Nation of Israel is back to stay.

"White Europeans"? What does that have to do with anything?

Extreme racists?

 

[lawrance]

The word racist ? what does that mean ?
And what about racial prejudice ?
Could the Jew be forgiven for saying that he or they are better than all the rest and could that not be a prejudice opinion ?

Maybe the Jew is as a people ? but i don't think so as they fell flat on their ass for their stupidity just like any other race did or can and so now we have blind fools running around now pushing such pathetic rubbish as to do with the State called israel ( they are not Israel at all) but just a bunch of blind foolish good for nothing yobbos and parasites that reject and hate Jesus Christ and that is a fact that no one can deny, so why would a true Christian who loves Jesus Christ with all there being swallow such nonsense dreamt up by such satanic idiots.

Israel is a people of God ! not a race.

The history of the Jews shows that they abandoned God for Idols and that is why they lost the land.

Now why would God favour the same idol worshiping rat bags back unrepeated and all ?

True Israel has been in the world from the day Jacob became Israel and when Jesus Christ came, so true Christians are Israel, as the people who knew and accepted Christ were the people of Israel as not all the people in that day were blinded.
It's principalities and powers who can bring darkness.
Jesus Christ is the Light of the world and there is no other.

 

[Duckybill]

Israel is a Nation, capitol Jerusalem. Where Jesus will return.

Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

 

[TheWarIs1]

Israel is a Nation, capitol Jerusalem. Where Jesus will return.

Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

As you usual DB you miss the point. Rosenberger spoke the truth about Jewish Israel but you've been blinded by the blind guides of today.

 

[Duckybill]

As you usual DB you miss the point. Rosenberger spoke the truth about Jewish Israel but you've been blinded by the blind guides of today.

It is you who missed the point. The Nation of Israel holds a place in God's heart that cannot be usurped by anyone. Did I mention that Jesus will return to the Nation of Israel, where He also came the first time?

Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

 

[TheWarIs1]

It is you who missed the point. The Nation of Israel holds a place in God's heart that cannot be usurped by anyone. Did I mention that Jesus will return to the Nation of Israel, where He also came the first time?

Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

no you've missed the point about missing the point. Over 90% of modern Jews have no Hebrew blood in them.
You are just a parrot posting your misguided beliefs without much thought.

 

[Duckybill]

no you've missed the point about missing the point. Over 90% of modern Jews have no Hebrew blood in them.

Totally irrelevant. Jesus will return to Jerusalem in Israel.

You are just a parrot posting your misguided beliefs without much thought.

Zechariah misguided? Nah.

Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.