John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[Kermos]

@Aunty Jane @Rich R @APAK @tigger 2

Truly, Lord Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Jesus says I AM, and He did not say "I was created".

So, one week before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM ring true.

And, two weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM resound true.

And, three weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM are true.

And, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created Jesus' words of I AM trumpet true.

And, the week prior to any of the angels being created Jesus' words of I AM harmonize truthfully.

No matter when in time one seeks before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of I AM remain absolutely true.

Going back in time, Jesus is always I AM, never created, He is always I AM.

Going back in time, anytime in all eternity because Jesus says "before Abraham" with no exceptions, Jesus Being.

Behold, Going back in time, Jesus Being.

JESUS IS EVERLASTING going back in time.

Jesus says "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20).

The angel Gabriel declared to Mary about Jesus "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).

Behold, Going forward in time, Jesus Being.

JESUS IS EVERLASTING going forward in time.

GOD is exclusively the One that IS EVERLASTING going back in time and going forward in time.

God is everlasting.

Jesus is everlasting.

No one except God is everlasting.

Everlasting YHWH God is Lord Jesus Christ for He declares "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8, see also Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:13), thus says He Who is coming on the clouds!

"I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).

"Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me" (Isaiah 43:10).

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

All people that think Jesus Christ was created hold to news that is not the Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:6-7), so you have no gospel at all.

 

[RedFan]

RedFan, look at "the Word" in Luke 1:2 and "the Word" in John 1:14, so "the Word" is used in common by Luke as well as John to refer to Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the point for @Rich R, RedFan.

It is indeed used in common by Luke and John (and others) as a referent to Jesus Christ. But I'm still not seeing the point. What John recounts as having been said about Jesus Christ -- call him what you will ("the Word" will do fine) -- is not ipso facto one of the many eyewitness testimonies referenced in Luke 1:1-2.

 

[tigger 2]

RedFan, look at "the Word" in Luke 1:2 and "the Word" in John 1:14, so "the Word" is used in common by Luke as well as John to refer to Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the point for @Rich R, RedFan.

...............................................
So why do most translations use "word" instead of "Word" (as used at John 1:1c)? This includes KJV; ASV; ESV; NIV; NASB; RSV; NRSV; etc.

 

[Rich R]

RedFan, look at "the Word" in Luke 1:2 and "the Word" in John 1:14, so "the Word" is used in common by Luke as well as John to refer to Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the point for @Rich R, RedFan.

You are correct in saying the word "word" is used in both John and Luke, but in both cases it's "word" (logos), not "Jesus." To get the Bible message we must read what's written, free from preconceptions that may not be scriptural.

You can't arbitrarily assign a meaning of a word (in this case, assign "Jesus" to the "word) in one verse and prove it's true by arbitrarily assigning the same meaning to that word in another verse. That's nothing but reading into 2 verses instead of 1 something that neither actually say.

You need to do research on the word "logos." It's super easy in these days of the internet.

 

[RedFan]

...............................................
So why do most translations use "word" instead of "Word" (as used at John 1:1c)? This includes KJV; ASV; ESV; NIV; NASB; RSV; NRSV; etc.

You'd have to ask the translators to be sure, but I'm guessing they considered λόγου in Luke 1:2 to be referring to the gospel message rather than to Christ as the embodiment of that message. (I suspect Kermos would disagree.)

 

[Keiw]

John 17:1-3,

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.​

Jesus was talking to his Father and called Him the only true God. This is in complete agreement with Corinthians.

1 Cor 8:6,

But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
​

Again, the Father is called the one God.

John calls Jesus the son more than 50 times and never calls him the Father.

John 1:1,

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
​

If we say Jesus is God then that means he is either the Father (which is totally counter to the Creeds) or he is not the true God (John 17:3) nor the one God (1 Cor 8:6).

Many solve the problem by finding out exactly what the "word" (logos) is in John 1:1. Hint: it's not Jesus.

Please confine the discussion to these verses in John. All the other so-called proof verses don't change what John clearly said. All verses have to fit.

Jesus is the Logos(word) Trinity translations are erred at John 1:1--a god, small g is correct, even from their own greek lexicon translating shows they are in error--by satans will to mislead those into serving a non existent trinity, and that makes them break Gods #1 commandment daily. Not a wise place to be standing.

 

[Rich R]

Jesus is the Logos(word) Trinity translations are erred at John 1:1--a god, small g is correct, even from their own greek lexicon translating shows they are in error--by satans will to mislead those into serving a non existent trinity, and that makes them break Gods #1 commandment daily. Not a wise place to be standing.

People can only go as far as they are taught. Trinitarians are taught a long standing, 2,000+ years which is hard for humans in our fallen world to shake. God certainly knows that and I don't see Trinitarians getting "punishment" per say, but I do think they miss our on the greatness of God for coming up with a plan, the logos of John 1:1, to work with mankind to bring about His final goal. People, having free will, aren't the most cooperative sort when it comes to working with God. Nonetheless, God managed to convince enough people to keep His word and promise alive for 4,000 years and then convince the man Jesus, also having free will (Jesus could have disobeyed at anytime), to carry out the plan to perfection. Quite a different story than God simply coming down and making things right again.

 

[Keiw]

People can only go as far as they are taught. Trinitarians are taught a long standing, 2,000+ years which is hard for humans in our fallen world to shake. God certainly knows that and I don't see Trinitarians getting "punishment" per say, but I do think they miss our on the greatness of God for coming up with a plan, the logos of John 1:1, to work with mankind to bring about His final goal. People, having free will, aren't the most cooperative sort when it comes to working with God. Nonetheless, God managed to convince enough people to keep His word and promise alive for 4,000 years and then convince the man Jesus, also having free will (Jesus could have disobeyed at anytime), to carry out the plan to perfection. Quite a different story than God simply coming down and making things right again.

Yes, most are lazy and do not obey Jesus. Most teachers do not teach half of what he taught. They get paid to teach that religions dogma--its these( 2Cor 11:12-15) that tell all--you are saved--The worst words one can be told because they are not truth.
Like Joel Osteen on tv telling thousands of people if they say 3 lines of prayer with him they are saved. Yet the majority of them are workers of iniquity and he doesnt even know them. The bible is clear at John 3:36--Those who are not obeying Jesus remain in Gods wrath. Jesus taught all how God wants to be worshipped-In spirit and truth( John 4:22-24) -- Those without truth will not be accepted. They have entered on the broad and spacious path and Jesus says they will be destroyed. He taught--FEW will find the road to life. A major problem is false blind guides assuring others they are saved. So they do not obey Jesus.

 

[Jack]

John 14:9 (ESV)
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

 

[Rich R]

Yes, most are lazy and do not obey Jesus. Most teachers do not teach half of what he taught. They get paid to teach that religions dogma--its these( 2Cor 11:12-15) that tell all--you are saved--The worst words one can be told because they are not truth.
Like Joel Osteen on tv telling thousands of people if they say 3 lines of prayer with him they are saved. Yet the majority of them are workers of iniquity and he doesnt even know them. The bible is clear at John 3:36--Those who are not obeying Jesus remain in Gods wrath. Jesus taught all how God wants to be worshipped-In spirit and truth( John 4:22-24) -- Those without truth will not be accepted. They have entered on the broad and spacious path and Jesus says they will be destroyed. He taught--FEW will find the road to life. A major problem is false blind guides assuring others they are saved. So they do not obey Jesus.

Good points brother!

 

[Kermos]

Enjoy your pagan Greek-Roman religious mythological dribble. Just look at what you keep writing. Are you really trying to persuade anyone here? You are incoherent in your thinking and in need of spiritual and mental healing.

Happy trails as you wander about in your rubber room...

Wow, you call the Word of God "pagan Greek-Roman religious mythological dribble", and the following shows why, APAK - and this goes for you @JohnPaul as well since you like APAK's wicked post.

You publicly admit that you deny the consistent Christian Apostolic testimony such as the Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13) as well as the Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28) and Peter calling Jesus "the God" (2 Peter 1:1) and Matthew says Jesus is "God with us" (Matthew 1:23) and John calls Jesus "God" (John 1:1) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1392 in another recent thread), yet no Christian denies such strong Apostolic testimony.


APAK, @tigger 2, @XFire and @Wrangler (you latter 3 by your APAK post agreement likes) - no other scripture records a man making this awesome declaration to everlasting existence in prior time along with the words "ego eimi" (I AM) - Jesus alone makes such declaration as recorded by the Apostle John (John 8:58) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1438 in another recent thread), yet you wickedly ascribe the everlasting attribute to everyone who says "ego eimi" (I am) in the scriptures thus you have a multitude of gods, so your deception runs deep in your heart.

In a stroke of linguistic folly, you wickedly adulterate John 8:58 into "Truly, truly, I say to you, I simply rank higher than Abraham" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1615 in another recent thread), yet the Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Christians do not deny the sayings of Christ for Lord Jesus Christ says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48), yet you reject Lord Jesus and His sayings such as"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[JohnPaul]

Wow, you call the Word of God "pagan Greek-Roman religious mythological dribble", and the following shows why, APAK - and this goes for you @JohnPaul as well since you like APAK's wicked post.

You publicly admit that you deny the consistent Christian Apostolic testimony such as the Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13) as well as the Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28) and Peter calling Jesus "the God" (2 Peter 1:1) and Matthew says Jesus is "God with us" (Matthew 1:23) and John calls Jesus "God" (John 1:1) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1392 in another recent thread), yet no Christian denies such strong Apostolic testimony.


APAK, @tigger 2, @XFire and @Wrangler (you latter 3 by your APAK post agreement likes) - no other scripture records a man making this awesome declaration to everlasting existence in prior time along with the words "ego eimi" (I AM) - Jesus alone makes such declaration as recorded by the Apostle John (John 8:58) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1438 in another recent thread), yet you wickedly ascribe the everlasting attribute to everyone who says "ego eimi" (I am) in the scriptures thus you have a multitude of gods, so your deception runs deep in your heart.

In a stroke of linguistic folly, you wickedly adulterate John 8:58 into "Truly, truly, I say to you, I simply rank higher than Abraham" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1615 in another recent thread), yet the Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Christians do not deny the sayings of Christ for Lord Jesus Christ says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48), yet you reject Lord Jesus and His sayings such as"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

Yes I like a lot of what APAK says.

 

[Kermos]

Good points brother!

In another thread, I recently mentioned to you the linguistic cohesion that John chapter 1 is a whole passage, ao John 1:14 makes the "Word" in John 1:1 refer to Jesus.

As a result the Apostle John refers to Jesus as God with "the Word was God" (John 1:1), and this is Spiritual Truth (John 14:6)

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose your and @tigger 2's deception).

 

[Rich R]

In another thread, I recently mentioned to you the linguistic cohesion that John chapter 1 is a whole passage, ao John 1:14 makes the "Word" in John 1:1 refer to Jesus.

As a result the Apostle John refers to Jesus as God with "the Word was God" (John 1:1), and this is Spiritual Truth (John 14:6)

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose your and @tigger 2's deception).

Well, you still have the problem of someone being "with" someone makes two people, or in this case, two gods. Even Trinitarian scholars admit that is a huge problem. We also see Jesus talking to his Father, which again indicates two people, or in this case supposedly two gods.

How to solve it? Easy; grab the idea of "oousia (essence)" from Greek philosophy and insert it into the scriptures. So it may be two gods, but they have the same "oousia" and are therefore one. Problem solved!

"Ousia ( / ˈuːziə, ˈuːsiə, ˈuːʒə, ˈuːʃə /; Ancient Greek: οὐσία) is an important philosophical and theological term, originally used in ancient Greek philosophy, then later in Christian theology." Ousia - Wikipedia
​

As such, Trinitarians owe a debt of gratitude to Philo and his unholy successors. Without him there would be no trinity and we'd be forced to to accept that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Rich R]

Wow, you call the Word of God "pagan Greek-Roman religious mythological dribble", and the following shows why, APAK - and this goes for you @JohnPaul as well since you like APAK's wicked post.

I don't think APAK or JohnPaul introduced Greek philosophy into the scriptures. That would actually have been the "church fathers," beginning with Philo, whose express aim was to harmonize the scriptures with Greek philosophy. All done quote some time before APAK or JohnPaul hit the scene.

"Philo's deployment of allegory to harmonize Jewish scripture, mainly the Torah, with Greek philosophy was the first documented of its kind..."
​

As such, Trinitarians owe a debt of gratitude to Philo and his unholy successors. Without him there would be no trinity and we'd be forced to accept that Jesus is the Son of God.

Philo - Wikipedia​

 

[Kermos]

Yes I like a lot of what APAK says.

You "evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived" (2 Timothy 3:13).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[Kermos]

I don't think APAK or JohnPaul introduced Greek philosophy into the scriptures. That would actually have been the "church fathers," beginning with Philo, whose express aim was to harmonize the scriptures with Greek philosophy. All done quote some time before APAK or JohnPaul hit the scene.

"Philo's deployment of allegory to harmonize Jewish scripture, mainly the Torah, with Greek philosophy was the first documented of its kind..."

As such, Trinitarians owe a debt of gratitude to Philo and his unholy successors. Without him there would be no trinity and we'd be forced to accept that Jesus is the Son of God.
Philo - Wikipedia

I didn't say that APAK or JohnPaul introduced "pagan Greek-Roman religious mythological dribble".

I am talking about the Word of God Jesus Christ (John 1:1-5, John 1:14), so APAK and JohnPaul call the Word of God "pagan Greek-Roman religious mythological dribble".

You are a pagan without the Word who says Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Enjoy your pagan Greek-Roman religious mythological dribble. Just look at what you keep writing. Are you really trying to persuade anyone here? You are incoherent in your thinking and in need of spiritual and mental healing.

Happy trails as you wander about in your rubber room...

Rich R, here is what I did say:

Wow, you call the Word of God "pagan Greek-Roman religious mythological dribble", and the following shows why, APAK - and this goes for you @JohnPaul as well since you like APAK's wicked post.

You publicly admit that you deny the consistent Christian Apostolic testimony such as the Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13) as well as the Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28) and Peter calling Jesus "the God" (2 Peter 1:1) and Matthew says Jesus is "God with us" (Matthew 1:23) and John calls Jesus "God" (John 1:1) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1392 in another recent thread), yet no Christian denies such strong Apostolic testimony.


APAK, @tigger 2, @XFire and @Wrangler (you latter 3 by your APAK post agreement likes) - no other scripture records a man making this awesome declaration to everlasting existence in prior time along with the words "ego eimi" (I AM) - Jesus alone makes such declaration as recorded by the Apostle John (John 8:58) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1438 in another recent thread), yet you wickedly ascribe the everlasting attribute to everyone who says "ego eimi" (I am) in the scriptures thus you have a multitude of gods, so your deception runs deep in your heart.

In a stroke of linguistic folly, you wickedly adulterate John 8:58 into "Truly, truly, I say to you, I simply rank higher than Abraham" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1615 in another recent thread), yet the Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Christians do not deny the sayings of Christ for Lord Jesus Christ says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48), yet you reject Lord Jesus and His sayings such as"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[tigger 2]

Logos as "a god" and Philo

We are told in an article by Dr. Frederick C. Grant of the Union Theological Seminary, New York City,

“Another term found in koine [New Testament] Greek and adopted by the early Christians is Logos (Word), meaning...the divine mediator between God and the world (John 1:1-18) or the divine thought or utterance, by which - or by whom - all things hold together (Colossians 1:17); that is, the One who is God’s agent in the creation and the continued existence of the universe (Hebrews 1:3). Such a term is not entirely philosophical: its real background...is not Stoicism or Stoical Platonism so much as it is the theosophical or ‘mysteriosophical’ theorizing of various religious cults and movements found here and there in the ancient Near East [the most influential and best-known of these being that of the Jewish theosophy of Philo - T2].” - Encyclopedia Americana, 1957, vol. 3, p. 654.

“The outstanding Alexandrian Jew [‘the chief representative of Alexandrian Judaism’ - J. B. Lightfoot’s commentary: Epistle to the Philippians, p. 130] is, of course, Philo Judaeus (20 B.C.-A.D. 50). .... It has been said rightly that the history of Christian philosophy ‘began not with a Christian but a Jew,’ namely Philo of Alexandria.” - p. 35, The Rise of Christianity, W. H. C. Frend (trinitarian), 1985, Fortress Press.

“The idea of a Logos, an immanent reason in the world, is one that meets us under various modifications in many ancient systems of thought, - Indian, Egyptian, Persian. In view of the religious syncretism of the second century, it is barely possible that these extraneous theologies may have exercised some influence on the Fourth Evangelist, but there can be little doubt in regard to the main source from which his Logos doctrine was derived. It had come down to him through Philo, after its final development in Greek philosophy.” - p. 146.

“…. every verse in the Prologue offers striking analogies to corresponding sayings of Philo. We have seen reason to believe that John had acquainted himself directly with the works of the Alexandrian thinker, and consciously derived from them.” - p. 154, The Fourth Gospel, Its purpose and Theology, E. F. Scott, D.D.

“Philo, the famous Jewish philosopher, .... is the most important example of the Hellenized Jews outside Palestine... he believed wholly in the Mosaic scriptures and in one God whose chief mediator with the world is the Logos” - Philo, vol. 5, Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press, 1988.

Speaking of theosophy and Philo,

We find that Philo Judaeus was a “Jewish philosopher: b. about 20 B.C.; d. not later than 54 A.D.”

“...his philosophy was thus strictly a theosophy. It rested, as its direct foundation, on the Jewish scriptures as an inspired revelation....”

According to Philo, “Between God and the world there is an intermediate being, the Logos.” And “The Logos is the most universal of all beings except God.”

Philo also (unlike the pagan Greek Stoic philosophers) “gives the Logos the titles of Son of God [John 1:34], paraclete [‘Comforter,’ ‘Advocate,’ ‘Helper’ - 1 John 2:1], and mediator between God and man [1 Tim. 2:5].” - Americana, 1957, v. 21, pp. 766, 767.

Philo also:

“differentiates the Logos from God as his work or image [2 Cor. 4:4].” Philo’s Logos is also “first-born son [Ro. 8:29]....divine [a god - Jn 1:1] but not God, is with God [Jn 1:1], is light [Jn 1:4],...manna [Jn 6:31-51],...and shepherd [Jn 10:11].” - Encyclopaedia Britannica, p. 251, vol. 14, 1968. (Cf. Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, vol. 8, p. 135.)

And,

“Philo describes the Logos in terms which often bear striking resemblance to NT descriptions of Christ .... Philo distinguishes God as the cause by which [and]..., the Logos as that through which (di’ hou), ... the cosmos originated” [Jn 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6] and “even as θεὸς [‘a god’] in a subordinate sense” [Jn 1:1] and one “from which drawing water one may find eternal life instead of death [Jn 4:14].” - A Dictionary of the Bible, p. 135, vol. 3, Hastings, ed., Hendrickson Publ., 1988 printing.

We also see that:

“Philo....made use of it [Logos] on the basis of such passages as Ps. 33:6 to express the means whereby the transcendent God may be the Creator of the universe and the Revealer of himself to Moses and the Patriarchs. .... On the side of biblical exegesis the Logos is identified with the Angel of the Lord...and is described...as High Priest [Heb. 6:20], Captain and Steersman, Advocate (Paraclete) and the son of God.” - p. 703, New Bible Dictionary.

Trinitarian Dr. H. R. Boer also tells us:

“Philo...put a mediator between God and the world. This mediator he found in the Logos. He is the greater of the powers with which God is surrounded [these ‘powers’, the angels of God, are sometimes called ‘gods’ by Philo, the first Christians, and even in the Bible itself - RDB]. In him Philo saw a divine power that is less than God [cf. John 1:1c, AT and Moffatt], standing between God and the world. Through him God has created all things [cf. John 1:3]. Later, this thought played a large role in the attempt of Christian thinkers to explain the relationship of Christ to God.” - A Short History of the Early Church, 1976, p. 12.

“Philo of course conceives of the Logos - which he occasionally calls divine (θεος) [literally, ‘a god’], but never ‘God’ (ὁ θεος) - as the highest angel and as the highest idea at the same time....” - p. 126, John 1, Haenchen, Fortress Press, 1984.

We even find Philo saying: the Divine Logos “has been anointed” [Messiah/Christ means the ‘Anointed One’] and “his father being God, who is likewise Father of all” - p. 69, Philo, vol. 5, Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press.

The Encyclopedia Britannica also tells us about Philo’s “Logos”:

“Thus there is close similarity of symbolism between Philo and the fourth evangelist [John], and they move in the same [Jewish] world of thought ....” - p. 251, vol. 14, 1968.

And the trinitarian Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, p. 833, also admits:

“Though it is clear that the author was influenced by the same background of ideas as Philo, his identification of the Logos with the Messiah was entirely new.” – Oxford University Press, 1990. (But, of course, we have seen a connection between one who has been anointed [messiah] and the Logos in the works of Philo described in Philo, vol. 5, quoted above.)

 

[tigger 2]

Yes, as we have seen above, a large number of highly distinctive descriptions of the Logos by Philo have also been used by John to describe his Logos: Jesus! These terms are used by Philo alone, not by other trinitarian-proposed sources of John’s Logos concept!

After discussing all other trinitarian-proposed origins of John’s concept of the Logos (including, of course, those of the Stoics; the OT Wisdom concept; etc.) and rejecting them all, a respected trinitarian work concludes:

“In the question of the origin of the Logos-concept [by John], pre-eminent significance is therefore to be attributed to Hellenistic Judaism [Philo].” - p. 1117, vol. 3, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, 1986, Zondervan.

Even the famed Hastings’ Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics tells us that John must be referring to Philo’s conception of the Logos:

“It is clear from the tone of the Prologue [John 1:1-18] that Philo’s conception of the Logos, or something akin to it, was already familiar to those for whom the Evangelist [John] wrote. No explanation of the word Logos is given [anywhere in the entire Gospel]; and almost every verse in this Prologue might be paralleled from Philo [and only Philo].” - p. 136, vol. 8. This includes his teaching that the Logos was a god!

I don’t intend to accuse the Apostle John of actually adopting part of Philo’s theosophy, but if he were making a comparison between Christ and a popularly understood Hellenistic concept of the word Logos at that time, he would have used the popular Logos concept of Philo, the Jewish theosophist who at least based his theosophy “as its direct foundation on the Jewish scriptures as an inspired revelation.”

As The Expositor’s Greek Testament tells us in its introduction to the Gospel of John: “The idea of the Logos was a Jewish-Alexandrian idea, and that the author sought to attach his Gospel to this idea is unquestionable…. But the term and the idea of the Logos are used by the author to introduce his subject to the Greek readers. As Harnack says: ‘The prologue [John 1:1 - John 1:18] is not the key to the understanding of the Gospel, but it is rather intended to prepare the Hellenistic reader for its perusal’.” - p. 671, Volume One.

And if John were writing to a group of the “many ... Hellenistic Jews” who had become a part of the Church (or who were at least interested in Christianity), there would be no need to explain the Logos concept which they were already very familiar with from Philo’s Hellenistic Judaism. (The lack of any explanation of his Logos concept by John has been troubling to many students of the Prologue of the Gospel of John.) And that concept is that the Logos (although the second highest power in the universe, the Son of God, the Mediator between God and Man, the one through whom God created all things) is an intermediate entity who is not the Most High God but is called ‘a god’!

 

[APAK]

@Kermos it really seems you enjoy the attention more that knowing the truth...

Matt 1:23 does not mean Jesus is God
Rev 1:8 is not about Jesus
John 8:58 does not mean Jesus is God
Do you want me to explain it all to you again?

Happy trails as you circle around the loop and recite the same scripture with the same incorrect interpretations.