John 3:16 in relation to the grace gospel
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I did answer the question. I believe that all scripture is inspired by the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto every good work.
My experience is that it is normally the unbelieving individual that requires that Christians respond to them apart from scripture.
They do not understand that for the believer, what the scripture teaches is the answer of our heart.
So then, in quoting the scripture, I am telling you what I believe; I am not hiding behind the words of someone else.
For the words of that someone else are also my words, in that I have adopted them to my own thinking and believe them with my whole heart.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I am sure you know that Christ told them that Christianity was not a patch on an old garment. That you cannot put new wine in old wine skins.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism degraded the social status of women.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism made women property.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism established polygamy and the Mosaic Laws governed it.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism had Moses to go to another land and kill all that breathed and reminded them not to
forget the babies.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism directed them to take their children out and stone them if they were disobedient.
How much of that wisdom do you respect? Do you call it righteousness? How much of that do you want in Christianity?
If you do not want to answer that question...just admit it. I respect your right to not answer.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism degraded the social status of women.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism made women property.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism established polygamy and the Mosaic Laws governed it.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism had Moses to go to another land and kill all that breathed and reminded them not to
forget the babies.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism directed them to take their children out and stone them if they were disobedient.
How much of that wisdom do you respect? Do you call it righteousness? How much of that do you want in Christianity?
If you do not want to answer that question...just admit it. I respect your right to not answer.
The fact that Christianity is new wine and is to be put into new wineskins in no way contradicts the fact that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man of God might be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Try as you might to contend that I have not answered...it remains that I have given my answer to your question.
Here, let me break it down for you:
Concerning what the scripture says is wisdom in the OT:
All of it.
Yes I do.
All of it.
.
.
.
And I have given the reason for my answer.
The reason being that the OT is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, that the man of the Lord may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Now if you don't want to accept my answer, just admit it.
Looking more closely at what appears to me to be an indictment against the God of the Old Testament on your part (see Jude 1:14-15), I would simply say that there is one God according to scripture and that He is Jesus Christ. The things that you have against the Old Testament have their apologetic statements that show that God is righteous in all of it. I am not an expert on those apologetic statements; but I accept that the God of the Old Testament is righteous and that He is the same God as the God of the New Testament.
Try as you might to contend that I have not answered...it remains that I have given my answer to your question.
Here, let me break it down for you:
Concerning what the scripture says is wisdom in the OT:
All of it.
Yes I do.
All of it.
.
.
.
And I have given the reason for my answer.
The reason being that the OT is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, that the man of the Lord may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Now if you don't want to accept my answer, just admit it.
Looking more closely at what appears to me to be an indictment against the God of the Old Testament on your part (see Jude 1:14-15), I would simply say that there is one God according to scripture and that He is Jesus Christ. The things that you have against the Old Testament have their apologetic statements that show that God is righteous in all of it. I am not an expert on those apologetic statements; but I accept that the God of the Old Testament is righteous and that He is the same God as the God of the New Testament.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
So because it was inspired by God...when are you going to start doing this in your religion and preaching that others should do it?
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism degraded the social status of women.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism made women property.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism established polygamy and the Mosaic Laws governed it.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism had Moses to go to another land and kill all that breathed and reminded them not to
forget the babies.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism directed them to take their children out and stone them if they were disobedient.
How much of that wisdom do you respect? Do you call it righteousness? How much of that do you want in Christianity?
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism degraded the social status of women.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism made women property.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism established polygamy and the Mosaic Laws governed it.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism had Moses to go to another land and kill all that breathed and reminded them not to
forget the babies.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism directed them to take their children out and stone them if they were disobedient.
How much of that wisdom do you respect? Do you call it righteousness? How much of that do you want in Christianity?
Please give chapter and verse for each one of these claims.
I would remind you of what it says in Jude...
Jde 1:14, And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jde 1:15, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jde 1:16, These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jde 1:17, But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Jde 1:18, How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jde 1:19, These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jde 1:20, But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jde 1:21, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jde 1:22, And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jde 1:23, And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Still sided stepping the point. When are you and your religion going to start doing all that inspired word?
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism degraded the social status of women.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism made women property.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism established polygamy and the Mosaic Laws governed it.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism had Moses to go to another land and kill all that breathed and reminded them not to
forget the babies.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism directed them to take their children out and stone them if they were disobedient.
How much of that wisdom do you respect? Do you call it righteousness? How much of that do you want in Christianity?
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism degraded the social status of women.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism made women property.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism established polygamy and the Mosaic Laws governed it.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism had Moses to go to another land and kill all that breathed and reminded them not to
forget the babies.
The wisdom and righteousness of Judaism directed them to take their children out and stone them if they were disobedient.
How much of that wisdom do you respect? Do you call it righteousness? How much of that do you want in Christianity?
You have not shown that these statements are biblical statements.
Once and if you can show that these statements are from the Bible, I will address the issue based on a deeper look at the scriptures in question.
As it is, you are making general statements about what you think the scripture teaches but 1) have not shown what the scripture teaches, and 2) you have not presented to me the capability of answering the scriptures you are thinking of with an apologetic discourse; because you are keeping hidden from us what scriptures you have in mind.
Tell me what scriptures you are thinking of so that I can have something to go on.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Are you telling me that you do not know that the Jews practiced polygamy? Are you telling me you have never heard of the whole kill all that
breaths thing? Christ did what he could to make it clear that Judaism and Christianity are not compatible. The Jewish Christians dogged the
Apostle Paul throughout his ministry and it was the reason for the first Christian counsel in Jerusalem. His frustration is seen where finally
he put a curse on this concept...some call it a curse...when he said, You who look to the law for righteousness are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace. You'll have a very short religious life without Grace. Don't get me wrong, I am not Jewish, but I love the Jews and will always
put myself between them and their enemies. No matter who is at fault. (Mental note; Grailhunter sometimes has a dry humor.) I am smiling because I know somewhere here I am thinking there is a miss understanding, because you seem pretty smart.
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The only case of polygamy that I can think of in the OT is with Jacob and Leah and Rachel; and that was because Laban tricked Jacob.
I know of no mandate in the OT where it says in OT law that polygamy is to be the practice of Judaism.
Our culture is based on a Judeo-Christian ethic; if polygamy were in OT law then it would also be inherent in the laws of our nation.
I think that Israel's kings also multiplied wives to themselves; but this was specifically against what the Lord had said to them in His law and it was because they were copycatting the kings of the heathen nations.
I've heard of it; but I don't think that it happened with Moses.
It happened with Saul. God told Saul to wipe out the Amalekites because their sins had developed to the point where they were beyond redemption.
It seems to me that in the NT, Jesus' condemnation of sinners to hell is worse than condemning a nation to extinction; for the former thing is permanent and eternal and involves everlasting punishment: while with God's command to Saul to wipe out the Amalekites, at least the newborn babies that were killed have a chance at redemption; as David said concerning his child that the Lord took from him: I will go to him; but he shall not return to me.
Which indicates that there is an age of accountability and shows forth the fact that God's decision to wipe out even the newborns of the Amalekites was an act of mercy on God's part.
Let me add that only God has the right to make that kind of decision; since He is Omniscient (and also good) and is the only One who knows all the circumstances of any given situation.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Humor....You have lived a very sheltered Old Testament life. Ha Ha. To understand Christianity, you need to understand Judaism to a
degree, particularly to understand early Christianity. I cannot help a lot because there is too much information to cover to put it in this forum.
Dive into Judaism and you will be surprised, it will open up a whole new level of understanding. There are those that will quote the Old Testament scriptures, relying on the ignorance of others, to unjustly prove their point. I truly wish you luck.
Heb 8:13, In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
2Pe 1:3, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4, Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Ti 3:16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I believe that these scriptures tell us that the Old Testament (the religion of Judaism) is waxing old and is ready to vanish away; while there are certain things in the Old Testament (such as promises that He has given to His children) that continue to be profitable for today's believers.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
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