John 6 and the bread from heaven

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Eternally Grateful

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YOU say water and Spirit was not the thing that was important. Jesus said, Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Hummmm....MOST ASSURELY??? That means what He was about to say next WAS IMPORTANT.

Sooooooo EG, it IS important to understand HOW to be born again. For 2,000 years Christianity has taught that one is born again thru water and Spirit.....Just like Jesus said. When one is baptized in water, they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit....Just like Peter said in Holy Scripture: Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I can give you 2nd century writings from leaders of The Church that say the same thing. But you reject the men who lived closest to the time of Christ and accept the men of the 16th century....Weird.


What YOU present is 16th century writings/teachings from the leaders of YOUR church that do NOT equate water baptism and Spirit.

Sooooo who should I believe? :contemplate:

What Scripture and the men of the 2nd century say that matches with what Scripture says? Or you and your men from the 16th century?

Tough decision here EG....Tough decision!!

lol. Again, I am done.

You listen to your men, I will be an adult and listen to God.

Who should you believe?

GOD..
 

Marymog

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It is time to stop.

You have proven my thesis. that sadly many people fall into.. They will believe what they are told no matter what.
You fascinate me EG. I totally debunk what you say and then say "You have proven my thesis" :jest:

It's not a thesis EG. It's YOUR interpretation of Scripture which is opposite of the 2,000-year teaching of Christianity.
 

Marymog

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lol. Again, I am done.

You listen to your men, I will be an adult and listen to God.

Who should you believe?

GOD..
Seriously EG.....Do you REALLY not understand what you are saying here? I'm being serious and would like an answer....

MY men don't listen to God, but YOUR men (or you) do listen to God!!!

Seriously Think about that. Go on a 1.5 hour drive and dwell on it and I suspect you will eventually realize how self-serving and narcissistic that comment is.

Mary
 

Cassandra

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Indeed,

We offer that which our Father in His Goodness, has given us; the Lamb, Who once was slain and now lives forever!

Through Him and with Him and in Him,

in the unity of the Holy Spirit,

all Glory and Honour are Yours!
Almighty Father!

Forever and ever!


This offering is the fulfillment of Malachi 1:11 , and has been recognized as such by the Church from the very beginning..

1. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, "In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen."

~The Didache~

Maranatha
That does not answer the question. The Bible says Jesus died ONCE, and yet the Victim is sacrificed over and over every day.

"In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen."
It doesn't say offer me as a pure sacrifice--it says "Offer me a pure sacrifice."

Mal 1:11 from the NIV, and the NJKV
NIV
11 My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the Lord Almighty.
NKJV
For from the rising of the sun, even to its going down,
My name shall be great among the Gentiles;
In every place incense shall be offered to My name,
And a pure offering;
For My name shall be great among the nations,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
Says zero about as a pure offering.

You wrote this:
We offer that which our Father in His Goodness, has given us; the Lamb, Who once was slain and now lives forever!

If He was slain once, how can He be a Victim over and over, and why should He be?
 

Marymog

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I can;t help you Mary,

Only God can
EG: You have convinced yourself that YOU have the Truth and that if I would just believe YOUR truth, then you would be helping ME? :jest:

If YOU can't help me then the next step is GOD? You are one step below Him? My, my, you think very highly of yourself.

How about if I do this EG. How about if I follow Scripture and obey my elders, whom the Holy Spirit has chosen to watch out for The Church my soul? You know The Church? What Scripture calls The Pillar and Foundation of Truth!!! Not YOU. THE CHURCH!!
How about YOU try following Scripture so that YOU may know the Truth and it will set you free :vgood:

I mean after all, by your own admittance, you don't know the truth and someone could change your mind on what you think is the truth....that is if YOU decide that what they said is the truth.

Keeping it real with Scripture and your own words.....Mary
 

Marymog

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lol. Again, I am done.

You listen to your men, I will be an adult and listen to God.

Who should you believe?

GOD..
Lol....Notice how you are unable to, ONCE AGAIN, back up what you said after I quote Scripture and reference Christian history? And BOTH show you to be ONCE AGAIN.....WRONG!!

Instead you run by saying you are done and condescendingly suggest that I am being childish, but YOU? Well, YOU are being an adult. :jest:

You ask, Who should I believe? Clearly not YOU!
 

Marymog

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That does not answer the question. The Bible says Jesus died ONCE, and yet the Victim is sacrificed over and over every day.
Yup Cassandra. Scripture says that Jesus died ONCE! What else does it say?

The Bible says He TOLD us that we must eat His body to have life in us. The Bible says He then SHOWED us how to do that at the Last Supper by holding up a piece of bread and saying this IS my body.

The Bible says the NT Christians then gathered DAILY to eat His body in the form of bread. The Bible says Paul re-affirmed what Jesus said and that the NT Christians believed it was His body when he asked the rhetorical question The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Christian historical writings call your Christian brothers who lived in the 2nd century "cannibals" for claiming that they were eating Him.


Soooo yes Cassandra. If we cherry pick Scripture and ignore everything else the bible says about this matter except what you pointed out....You are right. But if we look at ALL OF The Bible.......then you are wrong. It NEVER says that each time the NT Christians partook in communion that they were making Jesus the victim over and over again. That is your OPINOIN, but not what The Bible says.
 

Illuminator

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That does not answer the question. The Bible says Jesus died ONCE, and yet the Victim is sacrificed over and over every day.


It doesn't say offer me as a pure sacrifice--it says "Offer me a pure sacrifice."

Mal 1:11 from the NIV, and the NJKV


Says zero about as a pure offering.

You wrote this:


If He was slain once, how can He be a Victim over and over, and why should He be?
You refuse to understand the Mass. He is NOT a victim over and over again. That's the standard anti-Catholic mantra; a vain attempt to discredit the Mass. It's stupid and insulting. Grow up and do a little reading.

But the Eucharist does not end with the partaking of the bread and blood of the Lord. It leads us to solidarity with others. The communion with the Lord is necessarily a communion with our fellow brothers and sisters. And therefore the one who is fed and nourished by the very body and blood of Christ cannot remain unaffected when he sees his brothers suffering want and hunger. (Homily for the Feast of Corpus Christi, 5-30-13)

Therefore the Eucharistic Celebration is much more than simple banquet: it is exactly the memorial of Jesus’ Paschal Sacrifice, the mystery at the centre of salvation. “Memorial” does not simply mean a remembrance, a mere memory; it means that every time we celebrate this Sacrament we participate in the mystery of the passion, death and resurrection of Christ. The Eucharist is the summit of God’s saving action: the Lord Jesus, by becoming bread broken for us, pours upon us all of his mercy and his love, so as to renew our hearts, our lives and our way of relating with him and with the brethren. . . . the bread that is the Body of Jesus Christ who saves us, forgives us, unites us to the Father. (General Audience, 2-5-14)

Jesus underlines that he has not come into this world to give something, but to give himself, his life, as nourishment for those who have faith in Him. . . . Every time that we participate in Holy Mass and we are nourished by the Body of Christ, the presence of Jesus and of the Holy Spirit acts in us, shaping our hearts, communicating an interior disposition to us that translates into conduct according to the Gospel. (Angelus for the Feast of Corpus Christi, 6-22-14)

In the Eucharist Jesus does not give just any bread, but the bread of eternal life, he gives Himself, offering Himself to the Father out of love for us. (Angelus, 8-13-14)

The Eucharist is Jesus who gives himself entirely to us. To nourish ourselves with him and abide in him through Holy Communion, if we do it with faith, transforms our life into a gift to God and to our brothers… eating him, we become like him. . . . [the Eucharist] is not a private prayer or a beautiful spiritual experience . . . it is a memorial, namely, a gesture that actualizes and makes present the event of the death and resurrection of Jesus: the bread is truly his Body given, the wine is truly is Blood poured out. (Angelus, 8-16-15; Catholic News Agency)

It’s not just a memory, no, it’s more: It’s making present what happened twenty centuries ago. . . . This is Mass: entering in this Passion, Death, Resurrection, and Ascension of Jesus, and when we go to Mass, it is as if we go to Calvary. Now imagine if we went to Calvary—using our imagination—in that moment, knowing that that man there is Jesus. Would we dare to chit-chat, take pictures, make a little scene? No! Because it’s Jesus! We would surely be in silence, in tears, and in the joy of being saved… Mass is experiencing Calvary, it’s not a show. (General Audience, Crux, 11-22-17)

www.patheos.com

No, Pope Francis Did Not Deny Transubstantiation

The pope uses phenomenological language about the Eucharist, without in the least denying transubstantiation. So did Jesus, Paul, Matthew, Mark, and Luke. No biggie . . .
www.patheos.com
www.patheos.com
 
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Illuminator

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What Made Scott Hahn Become Catholic​

“There I stood, a man incognito, a Protestant minister in plainclothes, slipping into the back of a Catholic chapel in Milwaukee to witness my first Mass. Curiosity had driven me there, and I still didn’t feel sure that it was a healthy curiosity. Studying the writings of the earliest Christians, I’d found countless references to “the liturgy,” “the Eucharist,” “the sacrifice.” For those first Christians, the Bible—the book I loved above all—was incomprehensible apart from the event that today’s Catholics called “the Mass”. || The Lamb’s Supper, Dr. Scott Hahn

 

Ziggy

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ok, bad storm last night. I lost power for 28 hours.
What did I miss?

:D
Hugs
 

Philip James

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That does not answer the question. The Bible says Jesus died ONCE, and yet the Victim is sacrificed over and over every day.

Indeed and we offer that ONE sacrifice every day.

It doesn't say offer me as a pure sacrifice--it says "Offer me a pure sacrifice."

Do you know of any sacrifice, other than The Lamb of God, that is pure? What else besides the offering of the Eucharist can possibly fulfill Malachi 1:11


If He was slain once, how can He be a Victim over and over, and why should He be?

Jesus is God! Thus His suffering and death, and His offering of that to the Father, is an eternal reality.. As is His resurrection and the wedding Feast..

You too! Dear Cassandra, are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!



Maranatha!
 
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Ziggy

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Nonsense. Fulfillment does not mean abolish.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Not the law. The law..oh boy here we go... wasn't abolished.
The old testament or covenant with Israel was broken.

Like, God made a covenant with Noah concerning the rainbow.... not going there...
That wasn't a commandement, it was an agreement.
God made a covenant with Israel and they broke it, and God annulled it.
Jesus came and made a new covenant with both jew and gentile.
This has nothing to do with the law and commandments.
However, the covenant is based on keeping God's commandments, now Jesus' commandments.
And we are no longer under the law of Moses, but we are under the law of the Spirit.
That's your transfiguration.

Now this new covenant doesn't have the "ordinances of the Levitical Priesthood" contained in it, because Jesus is now our High Priest.
And he doesn't require the blood of sheep and goats, because he offered his own life for ours.
We are baught with a price...

1Co 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Mat 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

oh oh, there's those works again...

Everybody just wants a free ride.

Crazy what you find on youtube LOL
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Ziggy

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Do you know of any sacrifice, other than The Lamb of God, that is pure? What else besides the offering of the Eucharist can possibly fulfill Malachi 1:11
Rom 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Heb 13:15
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

I'm good with that.
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Ziggy

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Jhn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jhn 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

1Jo 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Rom 15:8
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Rom 15:9
And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Jesus BEING the truth IS the confirmation that there is only 1 God, 1 creator of heaven and earth.
Jesus IS the Truth. There is no other way to God but through Him.

Pilate asked "What is the Truth? "
Pilate being Roman believed in many gods. He didn't wait for an answer:
Jhn 18:38
Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

I don't believe Pilate was a very religious man.

However, someone did ask this once before...

Exo 5:2
And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.

He found out the Truth didn't he?

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The Learner

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Huh? Learner, I'm a little slow sometimes. What are you saying here?

I'm not sure if I should laugh or quote Scripture.....:doldrums:

Curious Mary
Laugh Sister Mary, I was sharing a prank I played on my in-laws. They are Pentecostal and Fundamentalist Christians who teach if it is not in the Bible. one can not believe or do it.

Another prank, I played on them last Christ-Mass was put three buckets in the Latrine-- with fresh water, soapy water and Vinegar water. There are historical sources related to the time of Jesus. There was a sponge on a stick. They put it in Vinegar water to cleanse it. Then in soapy water to clean their behind, then in fresh water to rinse, put back into the Vinegar water. I removed and hid all the toliet paper, and left written directions at top, this is how Jesus and the Apostles did it. Each person had a towell with their name on it too. First one of the Sister's in law was in the Bathroom. After the flush, she looked around and read the directions. She yelled for my wife Nancy. My boss came out asking for where the paper is? I told her, today, we are doing it the way Jesus did. Others asked her what is going on. All the Men laughed as did the older women ( they like me, were tired of hearing their werid rules that they tried to impose on everyone else). To their suprise some swearing came out of the bathroom. My wife bribed me with Pizza and Prime Rib. So, I told her were the paper was.

"Romans used what is called a “Tersorium” – a sea sponge stuck on the end of a stick that was kept in either a bucket of salt water or vinegar. The general population used a communal latrine in Roman times, which consisted of several holes cut in a slab of marble."


" philosopher Seneca to inform us that “during the Greco-Roman period, a sponge fixed to a stick (tersorium) was used to clean the buttocks after defecation; the sponge was then replaced in a bucket filled with salt water or vinegar water.”" Toilet Issue: Anthropologists Uncover All the Ways We've Wiped