John Darby

[Davy]

Oh, so only sinners are taken and never saints?

Out in left field already, I see.
Can you not stay on the topic at the end of Luke 17?

Now, it is time for you to see this next fact. You have never seen it in your life.

Irrelevant and ignorant statement. You don't have a clue what I have seen.

Paul, in 1 Thes 4, quotes Jesus in Matt 24.....

Paul quotes what Jesus already spoke of prior(notice "WE SAY" as in the Apostles say, not just Paul)

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.(common knowledge)

Pulling one verse out of the flow of a Chapter doesn't convince. That's a common ploy used to mislead the deceived on what Paul actually said. Your parallel slices and dices Scripture also to try and make it say what you want, which is another ploy used by pre-trib to deceive God's people.

The catching away parallel...

Matt 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

You have WRONGLY used the above Scripture to create a FALSE PARALLEL, simply because the above verses belong to a different section of Matthew 24 that is giving warning against deception, and NOT linked to the 1 Thess.4 idea of being gathered to Christ at His coming.

Lord Jesus gave another version of those verses in Luke 17, the Chapter where you have strayed from so far...

Luke 17:26-30
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
KJV

Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

The parallel in Matthew 24 to Jesus' answer when they asked Him where those 1st ones would be taken, is with this section of verses involving the working of the pseudo-Christ...

Matt 24:25-28
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

Jesus' answer in Luke 17:37 is a WARNING against being the 1st one taken.

 

[Davy]

....

1 Thes. 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

HERE BELOW is the ACTUAL parallel of those 1 Thess.4 verses to Matthew 24...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

The subject of the 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 verses is about Christ's coming and gathering of His Church, NOT about being a DEAD "CARCASE" wheresoever the eagles are gathered. You can look that KJV "carcase" up in the Greek of Matthew 24:28 too, because it literally means a DEAD CORPSE. Those in Christ Jesus ARE NOT... as a dead corpse! Jesus' warning against being the 1st one taken is simple!

The thief parallel.....
MATT
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

1 THES
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Ah, ah, uh... you left some important verses out, slicin' and dicin' again according to what the pre-trib doctors have falsely taught you...

The "day of the Lord" that Paul was teaching in 1 Thess.5 about relates to the FINAL DAY of this present world. The 'thief' metaphor Lord Jesus used is based on that "day of the Lord" from the Old Testament prophets being a sudden surprise upon the wicked. That is where Paul's idea comes from of those in darkness travailing as a woman with child.

Isa 13:6-11
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
KJV

It's all over by that event. And that... is the event of "sudden destruction" on that "day of the Lord" which Apostle Paul is talking about in 1 Thessalonians 5. That is about God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked on the FINAL DAY OF THIS WORLD, which is when Lord Jesus returns.

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV

On the 6th Vial, Lord Jesus is STILL warning His Church on earth that He will come "as a thief"! Where did we hear about that idea "as a thief" before? Well...... it was right there in 1 Thess.5 by Paul all along, and even by Lord Jesus in the Matthew 24 Chapter which you even quoted!!!

Matt 24:42-43
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
KJV

And we also WELL KNOW... the "day of the Lord" ONLY will happen on the VERY LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD, simply because it is when the elements of man's works are BURNED OFF THE EARTH by God's consuming fire!!!

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

But the false Pre-trib doctors instead say the "day of the Lord" happens at the START of the great tribulation, showing ANYONE who actually reads God's Word and thinks for their self that they are telling a LIE!

 

[Davy]

....

MATT

The drunken servant parallel....

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1 THES
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Notice the SEQUENCIAL parallels of the 2 passages.

Accidental or coincidence?

I dont think so.

Your eagle thingy is debunked.

You have not debunked anything, but have only shown your Biblical ignorance.

Lord Jesus' Message in the below verses is about WATCHING the events leading up to His return, which are the SIGNS He gave there in His Olivet discourse! The last SIGN He gave there was the event of His coming to gather His Church AFTER the tribulation!

Matt 24:42-47
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

That is about His command to 'watch' so as to know in what watch to expect the thief to come breaking in, so as to NOT allow your house to be broken into! It is NOT about simply waiting to be raptured! It is about watching the SIGNS Jesus gave us to be watching that lead up to His return. Paul gave some of those SIGNS OF THE VERY END also in 1 Thess.5 with the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night". Wake up!


45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
KJV

The idea of giving "meat in due season" is about those in Christ giving their household the "strong meat" Paul spoke of in Hebrews 5. It is about STAYING in God's Word and WATCHING the SIGNS Jesus gave. IT MEANS STAYING IN THE FIELD WORKING FOR JESUS, WATCHING THE SIGNS LEADING UP TO HIS COMING. And by that, Christ's faithful will recognize the Antichrist that comes first playing God, and will WAIT for Jesus's coming after the tribulation!

Two grinding at the mill, the first one taken? No, not those in Christ, we are to STAY WORKING FOR JESUS, waiting for His coming, and not being fooled by the pseudo-Messiah that comes first.

 

[Truther]

Out in left field already, I see.
Can you not stay on the topic at the end of Luke 17?



Irrelevant and ignorant statement. You don't have a clue what I have seen.



Pulling one verse out of the flow of a Chapter doesn't convince. That's a common ploy used to mislead the deceived on what Paul actually said. Your parallel slices and dices Scripture also to try and make it say what you want, which is another ploy used by pre-trib to deceive God's people.



You have WRONGLY used the above Scripture to create a FALSE PARALLEL, simply because the above verses belong to a different section of Matthew 24 that is giving warning against deception, and NOT linked to the 1 Thess.4 idea of being gathered to Christ at His coming.

Lord Jesus gave another version of those verses in Luke 17, the Chapter where you have strayed from so far...

Luke 17:26-30
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
KJV

Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

The parallel in Matthew 24 to Jesus' answer when they asked Him where those 1st ones would be taken, is with this section of verses involving the working of the pseudo-Christ...

Matt 24:25-28
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

Jesus' answer in Luke 17:37 is a WARNING against being the 1st one taken.

I am glad you saw(but did not agree with) the perfect parallel between Matt 24(Jesus' 3 subjects) and 1 Thes 4(Pauls 3 subjects) in perfect sequence.

This proves that Paul in 1 Thes 4, was quoting Jesus' discourse in Matt 24, much to your dismay.

Fact is, all the Apostles and church members had the "revelation" of the rapture per Matt 24, and Paul concluded in 1 Thes 4 as the message of hope.

Your eagle verse is out of context, and a rabbit hole doctrine. I heard it preached all over the Bible, from the O.T. etc to "prove" it.

 

[Truther]

HERE BELOW is the ACTUAL parallel of those 1 Thess.4 verses to Matthew 24...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

The subject of the 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 verses is about Christ's coming and gathering of His Church, NOT about being a DEAD "CARCASE" wheresoever the eagles are gathered. You can look that KJV "carcase" up in the Greek of Matthew 24:28 too, because it literally means a DEAD CORPSE. Those in Christ Jesus ARE NOT... as a dead corpse! Jesus' warning against being the 1st one taken is simple!



Ah, ah, uh... you left some important verses out, slicin' and dicin' again according to what the pre-trib doctors have falsely taught you...

The "day of the Lord" that Paul was teaching in 1 Thess.5 about relates to the FINAL DAY of this present world. The 'thief' metaphor Lord Jesus used is based on that "day of the Lord" from the Old Testament prophets being a sudden surprise upon the wicked. That is where Paul's idea comes from of those in darkness travailing as a woman with child.

Isa 13:6-11
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
KJV

It's all over by that event. And that... is the event of "sudden destruction" on that "day of the Lord" which Apostle Paul is talking about in 1 Thessalonians 5. That is about God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked on the FINAL DAY OF THIS WORLD, which is when Lord Jesus returns.

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV

On the 6th Vial, Lord Jesus is STILL warning His Church on earth that He will come "as a thief"! Where did we hear about that idea "as a thief" before? Well...... it was right there in 1 Thess.5 by Paul all along, and even by Lord Jesus in the Matthew 24 Chapter which you even quoted!!!

Matt 24:42-43
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
KJV

And we also WELL KNOW... the "day of the Lord" ONLY will happen on the VERY LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD, simply because it is when the elements of man's works are BURNED OFF THE EARTH by God's consuming fire!!!

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

But the false Pre-trib doctors instead say the "day of the Lord" happens at the START of the great tribulation, showing ANYONE who actually reads God's Word and thinks for their self that they are telling a LIE!

....as he skips the righteous being "taken"....LOL.

He teaches the righteous are "Left behind".

He teaches 1 Thes 4 is a myth.

I bet you think thieves only take bad stuff, not good stuff.

 

[Truther]

You have not debunked anything, but have only shown your Biblical ignorance.

Lord Jesus' Message in the below verses is about WATCHING the events leading up to His return, which are the SIGNS He gave there in His Olivet discourse! The last SIGN He gave there was the event of His coming to gather His Church AFTER the tribulation!

Matt 24:42-47
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

That is about His command to 'watch' so as to know in what watch to expect the thief to come breaking in, so as to NOT allow your house to be broken into! It is NOT about simply waiting to be raptured! It is about watching the SIGNS Jesus gave us to be watching that lead up to His return. Paul gave some of those SIGNS OF THE VERY END also in 1 Thess.5 with the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night". Wake up!


45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
KJV

The idea of giving "meat in due season" is about those in Christ giving their household the "strong meat" Paul spoke of in Hebrews 5. It is about STAYING in God's Word and WATCHING the SIGNS Jesus gave. IT MEANS STAYING IN THE FIELD WORKING FOR JESUS, WATCHING THE SIGNS LEADING UP TO HIS COMING. And by that, Christ's faithful will recognize the Antichrist that comes first playing God, and will WAIT for Jesus's coming after the tribulation!

Two grinding at the mill, the first one taken? No, not those in Christ, we are to STAY WORKING FOR JESUS, waiting for His coming, and not being fooled by the pseudo-Messiah that comes first.

i see how you think.

The 10 virgins are all asleep, then the Bridegroom takes the wrong ones.

Stick to your reverse, left behind theory, that God takes no righteous from the earth.

Silly indeed.

 

[Davy]

SEALS are First- and then Trumps.
*
Rev 8
[1] And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

* AFTER the Seventh Seal is Opened...THEN, are Angels GIVEN TRUMPETS.

(In other words...trumpets can NOT be sounded until The Angels Are Given the Trumpets TO Sound them!)

Rev 8
[2] And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

[6] And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

[7] The first angel sounded,

No, you are only going by the order in which Apostle John was given to write the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials down, when you should have studied the ACTUAL EVENTS to know what they are about, which then... gives the proper order.

All you are doing is just like saying, "These were written first, then these were written next, then these were written next," without even considering what they are actually about!

You completely skipped...
The opening and results of the opened SEALS are the Wrath are the Lamb.

I skipped nothing. I wasn't even covering all the events in Rev.6 about the Seals. But I can.

Rev 6:
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 8
[1] And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

You forgot this which was written WITH those Rev.6 6th Seal verses...

Rev 6:14-15
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
KJV

Did you forget to notice heaven departing as a scroll there (rolled up as a scroll is the idea), and every mountain and island being moved? And every free man, chief captains, mighty men, kings of the earth, hiding because they SEE The Father on His Throne and The Lamb Jesus? Per Revelation 1, which you obviously forgot, it is revealed that Lord Jesus will come in the clouds and EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM, even those who pierced Him. That's the point in that Rev.6:16 verse, the wicked on earth then SEE Him, which marks the day of His 2nd coming to END the tribulation by the wicked. That means of course... that particular "wrath" is... about the cup of wrath below poured out upon the wicked on the 7th Vial...

Rev 16:15-19
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
KJV

It is the Son of man that Shall Return.

Matt 24:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

That's a terrible interpretation. One of Jesus' titles is The Son of Man (Luke 22:69). You think that's someone else coming to gather the saints??? Sad if the pre-trib bumblers actually taught you that! Even more sad that you were gullible enough to believe them!

There is no Christ's cup of Wrath.

[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation;

Taken

You need to read and heed the Revelation 16:16-19 verses I posted above about Christ's coming on the 7th Vial.

So you accuse me of skipping Scripture, when it is you that has done the skipping.

 

[Davy]

I am glad you saw(but did not agree with) the perfect parallel between Matt 24(Jesus' 3 subjects) and 1 Thes 4(Pauls 3 subjects) in perfect sequence.

You haven't proven your theory of a pre-trib rapture, so throwing out false affirmations about your attempt at parallel Scripture clearly failed, as I showed by revealing the actual Scripture relationship between Matthew 24 and 1 Thess.4.

The gathering of the saints at Christ's coming per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 DIRECTLY PARALLEL what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. That means... the time when that happens, per Lord Jesus, is AFTER that tribulation like He said. Nowhere does Paul's Epistles disagree with that timing Jesus gave there.

The Matthew 24:31 version of the gathering is about the 'asleep' saints Jesus brings with Him when He comes.
The Mark 13:27 version of the gathering is about the still alive saints on earth which are caught up to Jesus and them on the day of His 2nd coming.

That means Christ's Olivet discourse IS FOR HIS CHURCH, EVEN TO THE END OF THIS WORLD.

 

[Davy]

....as he skips the righteous being "taken"....LOL.

He teaches the righteous are "Left behind".

He teaches 1 Thes 4 is a myth.

I bet you think thieves only take bad stuff, not good stuff.

The righteous STAY working for Christ, grinding at the mill waiting for His coming.

It's those who are deceived that are the first one's 'taken', like Jesus showed in the Luke 17:37 verse. And this because The Word of God had become a snare and a stone of stumbling for the deceived, like you.

Isa 28:13
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
KJV

 

[Davy]

i see how you think.

The 10 virgins are all asleep, then the Bridegroom takes the wrong ones.

Stick to your reverse, left behind theory, that God takes no righteous from the earth.

Silly indeed.

No, those like yourself represent the five foolish virgins who didn't carry a SPARE VESSEL of The OIL to go with their lamps. The OIL represents The Holy Spirit. How so? Because when you ought... to be able to recognize the simplicity in God's written Word, like Lord Jesus directly revealing His coming to gather His Church will be AFTER the tribulation, you instead heed men.

 

[Truther]

You haven't proven your theory of a pre-trib rapture, so throwing out false affirmations about your attempt at parallel Scripture clearly failed, as I showed by revealing the actual Scripture relationship between Matthew 24 and 1 Thess.4.

The gathering of the saints at Christ's coming per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 DIRECTLY PARALLEL what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. That means... the time when that happens, per Lord Jesus, is AFTER that tribulation like He said. Nowhere does Paul's Epistles disagree with that timing Jesus gave there.

The Matthew 24:31 version of the gathering is about the 'asleep' saints Jesus brings with Him when He comes.
The Mark 13:27 version of the gathering is about the still alive saints on earth which are caught up to Jesus and them on the day of His 2nd coming.

That means Christ's Olivet discourse IS FOR HIS CHURCH, EVEN TO THE END OF THIS WORLD.

I did prove pre trib...exactly.

Sinners AND saints are taken in Matt 24-25(same discourse).

You put all your eggs in the "sinners taken" basket, completely ignoring the saints' removals.

Try to be a little more objective next time, huh?

 

[Davy]

I did prove pre trib...exactly.

Sinners AND saints are taken in Matt 24-25(same discourse).

You put all your eggs in the "sinners taken" basket, completely ignoring the saints' removals.

Try to be a little more objective next time, huh?

Keep denying what Jesus said there in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, showing His coming to gather His Church is AFTER the tribulation. More room for His faithful that do keep to His Word, and not man's word.

 

[Truther]

The righteous STAY working for Christ, grinding at the mill waiting for His coming.

It's those who are deceived that are the first one's 'taken', like Jesus showed in the Luke 17:37 verse. And this because The Word of God had become a snare and a stone of stumbling for the deceived, like you.

Isa 28:13
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
KJV

Look...

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken , and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken , and the other left....

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh....

1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


In the same discourse, the saints were taken.

 

[Truther]

No, those like yourself represent the five foolish virgins who didn't carry a SPARE VESSEL of The OIL to go with their lamps. The OIL represents The Holy Spirit. How so? Because when you ought... to be able to recognize the simplicity in God's written Word, like Lord Jesus directly revealing His coming to gather His Church will be AFTER the tribulation, you instead heed men.

You are real tough. Read Rev 6 and tell me how you and your family will be after that chapter.

If you guys are real Rambo's, let's see how you fare in Rev 16.

Nobody will survive the Great Tribulation without massive loss.

 

[Truther]

Keep denying what Jesus said there in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, showing His coming to gather His Church is AFTER the tribulation. More room for His faithful that do keep to His Word, and not man's word.

You completely missed the 1st resurrection and the marriage of the lamb with your post trib doctrine.

What happens to wedding crashers per scripture?

 

[Davy]

Look...

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken , and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken , and the other left....

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh....

1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


In the same discourse, the saints were taken.

You just don't get the simplicity in God's Word. The one's TAKEN in the flood were the WICKED!

Matt 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV

 

[Truther]

You just don't get the simplicity in God's Word. The one's TAKEN in the flood were the WICKED!

Matt 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV

And you dont get the rest...

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him...

Did the Bridegroom take them AWAY with Him or not?


You think the "thief"(Bridegroom) is coming to take the garbage out, not for the prized possession.

 

[Taken]

No, you are only going by the order in which Apostle John was given to write the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials down, when you should have studied the ACTUAL EVENTS to know what they are about, which then... gives the proper order.

The ORDER of events in Tribulation : Are:
Rev 1:
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

All you are doing is just like saying, "These were written first, then these were written next, then these were written next," without even considering what they are actually about!

All I am DOING is saying what Scripture says.

You forgot this which was written WITH those Rev.6 6th Seal verses...

Well aware I did NOT quote the Entire Book of Revelations!

You repeating things I have already mentioned, is irrelevant.

The Saved in Christ are Not Appointed TO Wrath.
Wrath shall occur During the Tribulation.
The 7 SEALS, The 7 Trumps, The 7 VIALS are the Days of Tribulation and Wrath.

So what is your point?
Are you Appointed to Wrath?
Do you expect to be ON Earth during the Tribulation?

That's a terrible interpretation. One of Jesus' titles is The Son of Man (Luke 22:69). You think that's someone else coming to gather the saints??? Sad if the pre-trib bumblers actually taught you that! Even more sad that you were gullible enough to believe them!

LOL- I just quoted, it is Son of Man that RETURNS to Earth...and you think it is someone else Returning to Earth. ????????
LOL

You need to read and heed the Revelation 16:16-19 verses I posted above about Christ's coming on the 7th Vial.

Uh
... Not a word mentions Christ as you claim.


Rev 16
[16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
[18] And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
[19] And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

So you accuse me of skipping Scripture, when it is you that has done the skipping.

I have no intention of quoting you the entire Book of Revelations.
You move Scripture out of ORDER.
You preach Christ Returns, when Scripture Clearly Teaches: the Son of man Returns.

Luke 21:
[27] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Really? You think Human men CAN "SEE" Christ?


You are utterly confused.

Taken

 

[Truther]

The son of man was made an omnipresent quickening spirit after he was resurrected from the dead.

He will appear massively large and frightful to the world as per Rev 19.

He can change his appearance in any size or visible look since God fully indwelled his spirit body.

 

[Taken]

The righteous STAY working for Christ, grinding at the mill waiting for His coming.

Awesome! LOL
Considering the Lord God is coming For "ISRAEL" during the Tribulation!

Guess you think Services, of you and your kind Preaching to Israel for last 2,000 years has been so successful, The Lord needs your Services for the last Seven Years.

LOL