John Darby

[Taken]

Are you simply trying to create confusion with these statements? Christ (who was seen by men daily for about 3 1/2 years) called Himself the Son of Man all the the time while He was on earth. So what kind of Gnostic nonsense are you promoting?

You might try asking what you want to know instead of jumping in a conversation with accusations.

Do you believe Christ is God?

 

[Taken]

"All" these passages are about the Rapture.

Disagree.

 

[Davy]

The ORDER of events in Tribulation : Are:
Rev 1:
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

All I am DOING is saying what Scripture says.

No, actually you are not, because the 6th Seal events include the day of Christ's 2nd coming and His cup of wrath upon the wicked, like the events of the 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial, as I have already shown in my previous posts, which you failed to address. And by posting just the above 2 verses away from that topic further suggests you aren't interested in learning about the connections between the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials.

Well aware I did NOT quote the Entire Book of Revelations!

You repeating things I have already mentioned, is irrelevant.

All I've repeated is what I said from the start about the connections between the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials involving the day of Christ's coming and His cup of wrath upon the wicked (Revelation 6:14-17; Revelation 11:15-18; Revelation 16:17-19).

The Saved in Christ are Not Appointed TO Wrath.
Wrath shall occur During the Tribulation.
The 7 SEALS, The 7 Trumps, The 7 VIALS are the Days of Tribulation and Wrath.

And that 'wrath' is about Christ's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked on the day of His coming as written, as I have already shown happens on the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. That is the wrath Apostle Paul was speaking of that those in Christ are not appointed to, which is Paul's subject in 1 Thess.5 when he was speaking of the deceived who will be saying, "Peace and safety" when the "sudden destruction" comes upon them. That is to happen on the "day of the Lord" which Paul said there will come "as a thief in the night".

But what you have been wrongly taught and lied to about is to think that day is a rapture of the Church prior to the tribulation, when God's Word shows the "day of the Lord" will only occur on the final day of this world. Peter clearly showed that too when he linked that "day of the Lord" with the destruction of the earth and man's works being burned up (2 Peter 3:10).

So what is your point?
Are you Appointed to Wrath?
Do you expect to be ON Earth during the Tribulation?

My point I make is easy, because it actually keeps to God's Word as written, and not with a bunch of crazy ideas inserted into God's Word like Pre-tribulationalism does. As a believer on Christ Jesus that has not fallen away I am not... appointed to HIS WRATH. And that wrath is His cup of wrath upon the wicked, like I have repeatedly shown.


So who's wrath is this below?

Rev 16:19
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
KJV

Rev 11:18
18 And the nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
KJV

Rev 6:16-17
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
KJV

Who's wrath is that?

 

[Davy]

Awesome! LOL
Considering the Lord God is coming For "ISRAEL" during the Tribulation!

Guess you think Services, of you and your kind Preaching to Israel for last 2,000 years has been so successful, The Lord needs your Services for the last Seven Years.

LOL

You can mock The Word of God about the events of the very end all you want, but the end is going to happen exactly like God has said in His Word of Truth, and there is NOTHING you can do to change it!

 

[Enoch111]

Do you believe Christ is God?

1. Christ is God.
2. Christ is the Son of Man.
3. Christ is the Son of God.
4. Christ is the Lamb of God.
5. Christ is the Lord Jesus Christ.

How can any Christian be as confused as you are?

 

[Naomi25]

A person?
Well, I'm a person, and yesterday I went to a Store.
* fact, I was at a store.
I saw the clerk.
The clerk saw me.
I paid for some items.
I left the store and went home.
The clerk did not bag an item I paid for.
I returned to the same store and picked up my item.
* fact, I was at that store Twice.

I cannot imagine what you are trying to emphasize with that little story, but whatever, it still highlights my point: if you 'go back' to a place you've been previously, you are "returning" to it. Therefore any scripture that states Jesus, as Christ OR Son of Man, is "coming again" is speaking of a 'return'.
You have yet to prove any sort of a separation between those two titles of Jesus. And unless you can disprove the meaning of language, you have some work cut out for to to disprove 'coming again' means a return.

Iam not arguing with you.
I am speaking what I believe and disagreeing with words you have spoken.
If you think it nit-picking to speak the absolute truth regardingWho is Doing What at WHAT Time and Why...that is you.

God has multiple Names and Titles, and Scripture reveals Precisely under which Name and Title He is Revealing a Truth.

Men can not See God, but men can KNOW God and KNOW His presence, by which Name and Title, He has Declared.

If that is too nit-picky for you...it doesn't effect me.

It most certainly should effect you. Because you're not 'nit-picking' against me and my closely held desires, you're doing it against the taught meaning within scripture. You are arguing against a specific meaning based solely upon a word not being there, even though the meaning clearly is. Do you get how nonsensical that is?

The ONLY thing Natural Earthly men could SEE is the "Son of Man", who was Sent From Heaven to Earth.. (What men learned about Him, Believed About Him, Knew About Him...is per individual men)
The fact remains...Natural Earthly man ONLY SAW...the "Son of Man".
The fact remains...the "Son of Man" left Earth and returned to His Father's House (Heaven), From whence He came.
The Fact Revealed Is: the "Son of man" is at the Right hand of God in Heaven.
The Fact Revealed is: the "Son of man" Shall Return to Earth.....and Every eye of every Earthly Man, shall See Him.

The Fact is: I was speaking of "the Lords" descent From Heaven TO the Clouds.

The Fact is: you changed the WHO to Christ,
Descending From Heaven, claiming His RETURN to Earth.

The Fact IS: Christ is Never Revealed Being Sent to Earth.
The Fact is: The "knowledge" of Jesus being the Christ was Revealed To men on Earth.
The Fact is: you have Christ "Returning"
...to Earth...without one witness Ever having SEEN Christ on Earth!
WHY is that ^ ??

So...wait on just a second. You demand that I produce scripture that SHOWS that it is 'the Christ' who comes again. I do that. Now you're saying that "FACT: it is never the Christ being sent to Earth"
Have you even READ any of those verses? Let me refresh your memory:

But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. -1 Corinthians 15:23

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. -1 Thessalonians 5:23

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, -2 Thessalonians 2:1

For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. -2 Peter 1:16

And we KNOW that Jesus "Christ" came the 'first' time:

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.- Luke 2:11

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. -John 17:3

So my rather simple question is this: what on earth gives makes you think you can claim what you do? The bible obviously refutes you....rather embarrassingly.

Simple...Christ is God, and men can not SEE God! Men can KNOW, but they can not See Him!
And so when you do not speak the Facts...
Your know the nit-picky facts, your point fizzles.
It is the "Son of Man" that Returns....so every eye Can See Him, when they are Being Judged!

Mmmhmmm. Now dig up some bible verses that show that the "Christ" title is only given to the Father, whom is spirit, whom we cannot 'see'.
You won't find them. The bible, over and over, gives Jesus the title of Christ.
But, you know, it might be fun to watch you try.

Many, many, many things.

And I'm sure you're hestiant to repeat them, because they all link to Jesus. Figures.

So? Irrelevant per the "Lords" Rapture or "the Son of man's Return" to Judge.

Irrelevant? How convenient. For you. But I'm not buying. So how's about you do the other verses I provided above that speak of Jesus CHRIST as 'coming again'...and try explaining how they're all irrelevant.

 

[Naomi25]

And? Excellent teaching.
Covers it all...
Be it the "Lord", Coming for those in Christ;
Be it Jesus, the "Son of Man's " coming;
Be it "Christ", coming to Raise all remaining Saved Dead Bodies, after the millennial reign...
Yes... they Each shall be gathering ...
The Wholly WHOLE...so heed the Warning;
Get yourself prepared!
The Wholly WHOLE Are those...whose soul is Saved, spirit quickened, and raised in a glorious immortal body.

Except, that's not what it says, you've just twisted the entire meaning to suit you're wacky idea. Well done!
Lets see what 1 Thess chapter 5 says about Jesus, shall we:

For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. -1 Thessalonians 5:9–10

We see that Paul tells us that Jesus CHRIST died for us. He is linking the Christ to the ONE who died for us and gained our salvation.

pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. -1 Thessalonians 5:17–18

Here Paul mentions both the Father and Jesus, but who does he give the title Christ to? Jesus. No brainer.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. -1 Thessalonians 5:23

Here's our verses, now in context: God again is mentioned, and again it is Jesus and his coming that is linked with 'Christ'. It is Jesus Christs coming.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. -1 Thessalonians 5:28

And finally, Paul finishes by extending the grace of "our Lord Jesus Christ". Paul attributes to Jesus both title of Christ and Lord...worthy of worship.

You've got nowhere to go, you know. Everywhere we turn scripture is calling Jesus the Christ. You haven't come up with a single shred of proof that would suggest that the Christ and the Son of Man are separate.

The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ WHEN?
WHO is gathered?
Gathered to WHERE?
Why are they Gathered?
....no Context.

Just blurting out a Scripture ...doesn't prove anything...without context to put the facts in perspective.

Oh, so NOW you want context. Context wasn't so important to you when we were discussing the meaning of 'return'.

And I believe your attempt to dismiss the point by calling 'context' is rather besides the point here.
Let me refresh your memory of what you claimed above: "The Fact IS: Christ is Never Revealed Being Sent to Earth.
The Fact is: you have Christ "Returning"
...to Earth...without one witness Ever having SEEN Christ on Earth!"

How many scriptures do you NEED to outright STATE that 'the coming of Jesus CHRIST' to gather his people and judge the wicked? And what on earth does 'context' have to do with it. Either Jesus IS the Christ, or he is not. Like his other attributes, it's not something he puts on and off like a glove.

Jesus being the Christ is NOT in Dispute!

So...am i to understand then, that all you're arguing for is that the 'Christ' part of him is the 'God' part of him, and he left that in heaven when he took his trip to earth? And likewise, he'll leave it behind when he comes to get everyone?
Because, I'm afraid that the distinctions of that argument don't make much difference. The bible, as I've repeatedly said and shown, clearly labels Jesus AS the Christ, come into human history. God promised the Messiah, promised he would come. The messiah IS the Christ...its just a title. I mean, if you're going to picky again, I'd say that Son of Man has just as much, perhaps more, of a divine label when it comes to titles. Either way, the bible labels him as both; he claimed both, and he'll retain both when he 'comes again'.

Not in dispute.

What is in Dispute is you linking them all together, when Scripture Clearly does not.

Taken

Are you kidding?! You must, surely be kidding? Any one else reading this...he's kidding, right?

Fine. Here you go. Jesus makes this very claim about himself:

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. -John 17:3

And then, of course, we see him calling himself Son of Man:

For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. -John 5:256-27

So...that rather neatly places, in Jesus' OWN mouth, the two titles together. He clearly saw himself as both.

Now, why don't YOU attempt to find some scripture that show that they are NOT found 'linked'.

 

[Naomi25]

You should study Scripture.
God Himself made Clear Distinctions Between, the Son of man and Christ.
A few examples...

* Earthly men can See the Son of man;
* Earthly men Can Not See Christ.

* Earthly Son of Man, a humble Servant, without Reputation, not worshiped.
* Christ, the Power of God, Worshiped, Is God.

Son of Man, came to Earth to Give His perfect Body God Prepared, for the LIFE of mankind's Body.
*** ding, ding, ding-
Man could SEE His Body.
Men could His Body Killed.
Men could His Blood pour out.
And The Inside of that Body?
No man saw.
And His Soul and Spirit was NOT given unto Death!

But yet again...deflection.

The Son Of man, came to Earth, left Earth, shall return to Earth...and all shall see Him.

The Lord Shall Gather together all men IN Christ, before the Tribulation.

Christ Jesus Shall Come to Earth after the Trib, after the millennial reign and Raise up dead bodies of those "faithful" waiting Bodily in their graves...
Yes ...it is Christ, and THEY Wiil See Him...
BECAUSE...they are Raised Immortal!!!
( you know...no longer having Natural Earthly man's Eyes! )

Glory to God,
Taken

Uh, huh. Now...how's about you present a scripture verses beside every single one of those points. You know, the ones saying that we can't 'see the Christ', but we can 'see the son of man'. That would be dandy, thanks.
Because, when I read my bible, I do see these titles given to Jesus. I see him use them himself...I see his Disciples using them...both of them. And the remarkable thing is...they don't seem to mention anything that you're trying to push...and they always seem to be able to see him...even when Jesus was calling himself 'Christ' in John 17. Isn't that an amazing thing?

 

[Naomi25]

Please forgive my intruding here but have to ask what is ‘gather the wheat into My barn’ if not Matthew 3:10-13 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: [12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. [13] Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

‘quench not the Spirit’. how many times he asked ‘does this offend you?’ Even Peter’s satan wants to sift you as wheat, when you return and are converted strengthen your brothers. Gather into My garner ...is this not gather unto Christ all things out of which storehouse (Christ)the nations are blessed? So much so He said there would not be enough room to receive all the blessing for the natural man cannot receive the things of God ... ‘I go to prepare room’ and will receive that prepared of My Father: Mark 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.
Yet in my Fathers house there is room. ‘I go to prepare a place.’ What is that place?

Out of which storehouse flows Living water and blessing instead of cursing ...separation removal of the chaff (burned up and comes to nothing, as Paul said he suffered the loss of all things)works of the flesh, from Gods works which shine forth ‘like the sun’, where there is no need of the sun for He is the Light.

I'm very much afraid I'm not following your point, sorry. Are you suggesting that it is not the wicked, as such, that are sifted and burned, but works of flesh in all. That we may expect all to be blessed as we see such wicked works gathered out of us at the 'harvest'?

‘Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father’ So it will be at ‘the end of the age’ ...what is ‘at the end of age’ consider the with persecution and loss in this age and increase in the age (Life)to come. Agree with what you responded above “I think the whole "thief in the night to Rapture the church" came about because of desire, not out of faithful exegesis of the text. A bit like the whole "Tribulation Saints" idea. There's not a single shred of biblical evidence that points to a 'new class' of Christian that exists after the Rapture of the Church, but because they want there to be, and need there to be, suddenly there has to be”

yet in ‘so it will be at the end of the age’ leaves questions. will there be another age after ‘so it will be at the end of the age’, where another age begins? Maybe this is where the teaching comes from where men assume they get thrones to rule with a rod of iron along side Christ in the next age to come, to rule over who? Either it is at ‘the end of this age’ another age begins or ‘time is no more’. If ‘time is no more’ then where does ‘in the age to come’ fit?
Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world (age)to come eternal life.

If we do a search through scripture, we find an emerging pattern in regards to "this age" and "the age to come". What we find is "this age" represents things fleeting, temporal, sinful. And, of course, it will come to an end; we see references to 'the last day', or 'the Day of the Lord', or 'on that day (when he comes in judgement, or to gather his elect, etc)'. The "age to come" always represents things eternal, things without sin, death or mourning. Basically, it describes the new heavens and the new earth, where we shall dwell with God in our midst; a return to Eden, only better. This age has no end.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I'm very much afraid I'm not following your point, sorry. Are you suggesting that it is not the wicked, as such, that are sifted and burned, but works of flesh in all. That we may expect all to be blessed as we see such wicked works gathered out of us at the 'harvest'?

what is the chaff?

 

[Taken]

I cannot imagine what you are trying to emphasize with that little story, but whatever, it still highlights my point: if you 'go back' to a place you've been previously, you are "returning" to it.

LOL-
You could not imagine? the point I was making, that returning, to a place, is going back to where you had been before?
That was my point!

 

[Taken]

"Therefore" any scripture that states Jesus, as Christ OR Son of Man, is "coming again" is speaking of a 'return'.

you have some work cut out for to to disprove 'coming again' means a return.

Why would I try to Disprove "coming again" means a return, When I saiid return means coming again?
LOL

And we KNOW that Jesus "Christ" came the 'first' time:

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.- Luke 2:11

So, you KNOW Jesus IS the Christ, solely because ... a person told you, or you read that?

So my rather simple question is this: what on earth gives makes you think you can claim what you do? The bible obviously refutes you....rather embarrassingly.

To your obvious dismay, I am not embarrassed to seek deeper meanings of Scripture.

. Now dig up some bible verses that show that the "Christ" title is only given to the Father. ..

Why would I mmmmm, try to dig up Scripture that say what you say? And not what I said?

You won't find them. The bible, over and over, gives Jesus the title of Christ.
But, you know, it might be fun to watch you try.

Maybe it would be more fun to watch you quote me saying what you just said, I said!

You are going to quote me, making that claim ... right?

Irrelevant? How convenient. For you. But I'm not buying. So how's about you do the other verses I provided above that speak of Jesus CHRIST as 'coming again'...and try explaining how they're all irrelevant.

What is irrelevant, is you expecting me to defend thing I did not say.

 

[Taken]

So...am i to understand then, that all you're arguing for is that the 'Christ' part of him is the 'God' part of him, and he left that in heaven when he took his trip to earth?

Perhaps you can explain...your meaning of:

Phil 2
[7] But made himself of no reputation..

What Reputation?

And likewise, he'll leave it behind when he comes to get everyone?

If that is your understanding, I disagree with you.
I certainly have said no such thing.

The bible, as I've repeatedly said and shown, clearly labels Jesus AS the Christ,

And?
I've noticed your repeated list of Scriptures and snarky remarks...

Have you noticed...
Not once have I Denied Jesus is the Christ?

Have you noticed...
I have spoken of ORDER / Timing?

Have you noticed...
I have spoken of knowing, without seeing?

You have given your Sacred..."Therefore" speech. (And BTW, wanted me to defend, things Your have said FOR me, that I did not say!)

Are you Catholic?
Because your "Therefore" speech sounds Like Catholic preaching.
(In such: Jesus was born of Mary, Jesus is Lord, Lord is Christ, Christ is God, THEREFORE...Mary is the Mother of God!
Since ... Mary is "Therefore" the Mother of God, she must needs be herself holy, oooh ya right! Ok, Mary was Naturally born, but, but, but...Scripture is only True for every other person (is born in Sin), but not Mary, after all, she is (by "Therefore" teaching), the Mother of God, she is "THEREFORE" excepted, and Sinless!!! LOL).

Are you Catholic?
Is a Human woman, The mother of God?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

the point I was making, that returning, to a place, is going back to where you had been before?
That was my point!

John 6:52-63 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. [57] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. [58] This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. [59] These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. [60] Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? [61] When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? [62] What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? [63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; (I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.)

the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

You said ‘that returning, to a place, is going back to where you had been before?’
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Are you suggesting that it is not the wicked, as such, that are sifted and burned, but works of flesh in all. That we may expect all to be blessed as we see such wicked works gathered out of us at the 'harvest'?

had to sleep on it but yes. As the sword (think not I come to bring peace but a sword) to divide, To separate, to cut...The old man from the New. Dividing asunder unto Christ and what so ever is joined unto Him, is Alive and cannot be divided evermore. (Romans 8:35-39) Consider the promise of ‘opening the widows of heaven’ and pouring out a blessing so great there is no room to receive them ...so great there is no room in Adam but in Christ are the promises ‘yes, and Amen.’

as far as the chaff ...without Christ all would be chaff and carried away by the wind with no place found for them ...yet ‘it is for His tender mercies we are not consumed’.

how often does a passage change to reveal something we didn’t see there before. Especially when we stop trying to put ‘us’ on one side, and ‘them’ on the other. Spending all our time debating ‘us’ that do not perish, and ‘those which do perish’ taking all the focus off that which is of us which perishes and comes to nothing, and that which is of God and does not perish. I’m sorry this is long and you do not have to reply to keep this back and forth going, but consider the following. How often ‘he shall suffer loss’ is said in pointing the finger of vanity (Which is supposed to be removed from the midst) at another without Christ. Those not like the rest who do not suffer any loss with the grand high opinions of themselves. instead Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit said ‘for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,’ and Christ also said unless one suffers (for the Holy Spirit is long suffering) the loss of all things ...
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Philippians 3:7-11 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

to suffer the loss by fire ...That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

 

[Truther]

had to sleep on it but yes. As the sword (think not I come to bring peace but a sword) to divide, To separate, to cut...The old man from the New. Dividing asunder unto Christ and what so ever is joined unto Him, is Alive and cannot be divided evermore. Consider the promise of ‘opening the widows of heaven’ and pouring out a blessing so great there is no room to receive them ...so great there is no room in Adam but in Christ are the promises ‘yes, and Amen.’

as far as the chaff ...without Christ all would be chaff and carried away by the wind with no place found no more for them ...yet ‘it is for His tender mercies we are not consumed’.

how often does a passage change to reveal something we didn’t see there before. Especially when we stop trying to put ‘us’ on one side, and ‘them’ on the other. Spending all our time debating ‘us’ that do not perish, and ‘those which do perish’ taking all the focus off that which is of us which perishes and comes to nothing, and that which is of God and does not perish. I’m sorry this is long and you do not have to reply to keep this back and forth going, but consider the following. How often ‘he shall suffer loss’ is said in pointing the finger of vanity (Which is supposed to be removed from the midst) at another without Christ. Those not like the rest who do not suffer any loss with the grand high opinions of themselves. instead Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit said ‘for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,’ and Christ also said unless one suffers (for the Holy Spirit is long suffering) the loss of all things ...
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Philippians 3:7-11 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

to suffer the loss by fire ...That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

If I may interrupt momentarily...Are you a preterist?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If I may interrupt momentarily...Are you a preterist?

not even sure what a preterist is. Not sure what I am. Hopefully less and less seeking my own but instead the things which are Christ’s.

Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

Why are titles needed? So then we are justified in disregarding what each other says. The moment I say I am this or I am that ...then what?

 

[Truther]

not even sure what a preterist is. Not sure what I am. Hopefully less and less seeking my own but instead the things which are Christ’s.

Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

Why are titles needed? So then we are justified in disregarding what each other says. The moment I say I am this or I am that ...then what?

To converse with folks, it is important to understand each others beliefs. This minimizes misunderstandings. There are many preterists around, but almost all of them will not say they are. I am open to being labeled a "futurist", because that is what I believe and teach.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

To converse with folks, it is important to understand each others beliefs. This minimizes misunderstandings. There are many preterists around, but almost all of them will not say they are. I am open to being labeled a "futurist", because that is what I believe and teach.

I’m being serious. I don’t know what I am or where I fit. Things I once believed to be true are dissolving and every day there is correction. Maybe it would be better to say, a work in progress?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If I may interrupt momentarily...Are you a preterist?

looked up again what it means. No. I’m not preterist.

do not know if this will help. Get irritated (which I shouldn’t) when the whole focus becomes the temple being destroyed in 70AD. He said concerning the stones, not a one would be left standing not overturned. In the OT The word speaks of overturning the stones, stone tables of the heart and not a one will be left standing until they all be overturned. So yeah...are stone tables of the heart still overturned?