JOHN

[Enoch111]

Do you believe the beginning of the book of John is blatantly referring us back to the beginning of Genesis with the wording the author (John) chose?

I would not use the term "blatant" for Gospel truth given by divine inspiration. Yes, John 1:1-3 refers back to Genesis 1:1,2.

If you think yes, do you think he also intended to show that the light spoken of in Genesis before the sun was created was Jesus?

No. That is incorrect. That was cosmic light, not Jesus.

If you believe that light was Jesus, what do you believe the darkness is?

Darkness is the absence of light. Metaphorically it is evil, but not in the context of creation. God intended to provide 12 hours of darkness and 12 hours of light. Jesus said "Are there not twelve hours in the day...?" He also had a spiritual application to that question.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And "without form and void" can mean: a worthless thing, a desolation of surface, an undistinguishable ruin.

Could also be when the Spirit moves upon a person “without form and void: a worthless thing,” and brings forth a new birth. Consider what is said in
Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Going on to say the way of peace they have not known. Paul spoke of hoping not to run in vain or void.

I just think the context is that this was a terrible place before the light shined here.

Could also be: this was a terrible place before the light (the glorious light of the gospel of Christ) shined there, into a heart which receives Him. Our state before Him and without Him.

like you I always read the creation as Christ is the Light spoke of in “let there be light”. Only recently one thing in the account of creation caused a pause ...the creation of the sun and moon in contrast with
Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

So I’m asking since God said “let there be light” if that light is Christ, then why the need of the sun and moon?

 

[Enow]

Yeah, but the 1st day was before the sun and moon were created. Actually, I think the second day was marked before the sun and moon also, if I recall.

The sun, moon, and stars were created day 4.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

So when we go back to the beginning, we see the purpose of the first day is to establish what the first day was, there was evening and morning for that first day and each day after that.

Genesis 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The above is the topic. The following verses is just the beginning of how the Lord had accomplished this.

2 And the earth was without form, and void;....

That means the earth was formed yet. It did not existed at all. Then we see the existence of water, but what God created was the first day of what a day was.

...and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Now we have a water planet with an upper atmosphere that was created that second day. That was how quick that water planet was created.

Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Now we have the earth formed with the water all in one place and the one large land mass in that third day with mature plants bearing fruits and seeds.

So with the creation of the heavens that fourth day was to show also how long it took for God to create the heavens & fill in the gap with her lights to govern the earth that day.

The creation week did not end until Genesis 2:3 where God rested on the seventh day before starting the next topic in verse 4 about the generations of man and where we had all come from which is a rehashing of the event on day 6 in detail on how man was created.

So the 7 day creation including the day of rest from creation, was to establish how everything was created in 6 days for God to rest from that effort of creating the heavens and the earth on day 7.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So I’m asking since God said “let there be light” if that light is Christ, then why the need of the sun and moon?

To tell the story, to show His glory in the things He created?

 

[Elihoenai]

Well...how do you know it wasn't inspiration that led me to look up the letters? It has seemed to confirm what I saw when I read the words.

Matthew 24:3 King James Version (KJV)

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


You could have a good point. Have you considered that the Disciples had things private with Yeshua/Jesus?

 

[Base12]

No. That is incorrect. That was cosmic light, not Jesus.

The Cosmos didn't even exist at that point. John explains it clearly.

This is Genesis 1:3...

John 1:5
"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not"

And this is what the Light was...

John 1:4
"In him was life; and the life was the light of men"

The Light was Life.

 

[Base12]

And it says God created the heavens and the earth...

Just as an FYI...

I believe the KJV has it correct in that only *one* of the Three Heavens were created at that point.

That is why Earth wasn't 3D yet. The Universe itself didn't exist. Earth at that point was the 'Underworld'. It was 2D not 3D. Earth was basically Hell.

3D Earth was finally created here...

Genesis 1:10
"And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good"

 

[Base12]

The three letters are sheen tet noon.
Sheen - teeth, tear apart, consume.
Tet - snake, to surround, twist, ensnare
Noon - activity, life.

In other words, Man's DNA...

The 'Seat of Satan' is our very own corrupt DNA...

That was the enemy Jesus conquered.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Eeeewww...interesting...

 

[quietthinker]

Do you believe the beginning of the book of John is blatantly referring us back to the beginning of Genesis with the wording the author (John) chose?

Going back further than the creation of our world, 'in the beginning' gives us a reference to a realm we are unable to fathom yet still understandable in the sense that we cannot put God in a box.

If you think yes, do you think he also intended to show that the light spoken of in Genesis before the sun was created was Jesus?

Yes.

If you believe that light was Jesus, what do you believe the darkness is?

I hesitate to guess because I do not know.

 

[Base12]

BTW...

The Tetragrammaton (YHVH) means "Word made flesh"...

Yod = Word of God
Heh = 1st expression of Word of God
Vav = Join
Heh = 2nd expression of Word of God

 

[Base12]

This verse is very confusing to many Christians...

Genesis 1:7
"And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so"

The 'Waters' were Dimensional Barriers and *not* Earth's oceans or clouds.

Firmament = Our Universe
Waters Below = Abyss/Underworld/Pit etc.
Waters Above = Sea of Glass

 

[quietthinker]

And that part of the definition would be...misery, destruction.

we need to be careful here....it is too easy to ratchet our understanding to a place that contradicts scripture. John tells us in his epistle that the primary characteristic of God is Love and from it flows all else. If we deduce that darkness in this context represents misery / destruction as being in existence I think we've taken the wrong path. On the other hand if we see darkness as representative of 'without God' it would be more consistent with John's premise.

 

[Base12]

Firmament = Our Universe
Waters Below = Abyss/Underworld/Pit etc.
Waters Above = Sea of Glass

We can see the above in this diagram...

See how the Waters Above are on top of the Sun, Moon and Stars?

See how the Abyss is below the oceans?

It is the Sea of Glass that separates our dimension from higher ones... i.e... the Spirit World.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Going back further than the creation of our world, 'in the beginning' gives us a reference to a realm we are unable to fathom yet still understandable in the sense that we cannot put God in a box.

Yes.

I hesitate to guess because I do not know.

I'm not exactly throwing a wild guess out there. I looked up the word after I read the opening of John and could clearly see he was calling Jesus the light referred to there. So if that light was the person of Jesus, it made it seem that the darkness might be His opposite. Not exactly a guess.

 

[quietthinker]

I'm not exactly throwing a wild guess out there. I looked up the word after I read the opening of John and could clearly see he was calling Jesus the light referred to there. So if that light was the person of Jesus, it made it seem that the darkness might be His opposite. Not exactly a guess.

Yes, I suppose 'darkness' does seem like the opposite...at least to us it is yet to God, quoting Psalms 139:12 it reads....'even the darkness is not dark to you; the night is bright as the day, for darkness is as light with you'.

What is referenced in scripture is that which we are familiar with...the example of light and dark. I can imagine that in God's realm there are far more elements to which we have no reference to, some sort of examples might be the description of the four living creatures around God's throne in the books of Revelation and Ezekiel.

Back to John again I quote this for what it's worth....This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5

 

[Enoch111]

The Cosmos didn't even exist at that point.

The empty space surrounding the earth was the cosmos (undeveloped at that point). And cosmic light was CREATED light, whereas Christ is UNCREATED LIGHT since He is God the Creator.

In fact it is the eternal Word -- Christ -- who created cosmic light before any of the heavenly bodies came into existence. He spoke light into existence.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. (Gen 1:3.4)

 

[Enoch111]

So if that light was the person of Jesus, it made it seem that the darkness might be His opposite.

No. That light spoken into existence was NOT Jesus, since Jesus is the one who spoke that light into existence. Don't confuse creation with the Creator.

As to that darkness, there was no evil in it at that point, so it could not be the opposite of infinite righteousness (which dwells in Christ).

 

[Enoch111]

Back to John again I quote this for what it's worth....This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5

Now here we have the absolute goodness, holiness, perfection and righteousness of God (presented as divine Light) contrasted with evil, which is represented by darkness. And this also corresponds to what Jesus said "I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD".

Ever since Lucifer became the Adversary (ha Satan = Satan), there has been a battle between Light and Darkness. But since a thousand years are but a day in the sight of God, it has been just a little over 6 *days* that He has allowed this battle to rage. When all is said and done, everything that is evil, wicked, and sinful will be banished into Outer Darkness, wherein the Lake of Fire has been created for the devil and his angels. And there will be a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No. That is incorrect. That was cosmic light, not Jesus.

Do you have any verses where it tells of this cosmic light?