"Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Faith" - Has 500 Years Taught Us Nothing?

[GodsGrace]

These are the days of apostasy. Including you.

Before you ask, I'm nondenominational literal bible only.

How is @Reggie Belafonte speaking apostasy?
Every word he said is true. Take the time to look around you...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dead Bread, "debunking anti-catholic lies online" by outright denial of verbatim quotations of your own church leaders spewing official catholic doctrine not only makes you appear inept, but foolish.

Uhhhh, you keep falsely claiming this but you haven't been abe to PRODUCE any actual evidence of it, Einstein . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Luther was obsessed with exposing the lies of Catholicism and anyone today who enjoys the privilege of firmly taking hold of the Word of God with two hands and feasting on the truth contained within its pages ultimately has that intrepid former catholic monk and his desire to find the truth to thank.

No, they have Johanne Gutenberg to thank because he invented the printing press.
Protestants walked away from the feast . . .

 

[Phoneman777]

I doth protest E,
I read the link quicky, but I have to say that it's referring to the Council of Trent.
500 years ago.

I asked two priests I know and they said the Mass does NOT sacrifice Jesus again.
If THEY don't know, I can't say who would...

The Mass is a remembrance of the sacrifice of Jesus,,,as if we were standing at the foot of the cross --- more than just a memory.

It's good to remember the sacrifice of Jesus. Maybe we protestants have Him too much down to earth and thought of as a man? I'm not sure of this.

Anyway, I do believe you present an incorrect picture of the Mass.
We've been through this before so I suppose you don't accept what I'm telling you.

You should try asking a priest sometime if he's re-sacrificing Jesus at each Mass.

It doesn't surprise me that some priests hold views that differ somewhat from official catholic doctrine, which I whole heartily commend them for doing! What matters is the official position of the catholic church...and that is Christ is literally sacrificed morning and night in the Mass.

Since a catholic must "eat His flesh and drink His blood" or will be lost, in the Mass His body and blood are supposedly "transubstantiated" into the literal body and blood of Christ - though the bread was and is freely offered to ALL the faithful, the wine ceased to be several centuries ago, peradventure "His blood might be spilled upon the ground."

Be assured, it is not anything like the memorial service that we Protestants rightly and Biblically recognize it to be.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dead Bread denies it - just as he denies all other blasphemous statements which emanate from the Vatican. He's the first papist I've encountered that has abandoned efforts to legitimize the ludicrous, redonkulous teachings of Catholicism and has resorted to outright denial of them, while claiming to "expose anti-catholic lies online for 15 years"

I denied the Holy Sacrifice if the Mass??
When??
Can you show me the post - or are you too busy trying to pull your foot out of your mouth??

 

[Phoneman777]

Uhhhh, you keep falsely claiming this but you haven't been abe to PRODUCE any actual evidence of it, Einstein . . .

Wow, now you not only deny verbatim quotations, but also reality. Sad.

 

[Phoneman777]

No, they have Johanne Gutenberg to thank because he invented the printing press.
Protestants walked away from the feast . . .

Luther walked away from the Antichrist system in Rome

 

[Willie T]

No, they have Johanne Gutenberg to thank because he invented the printing press.
Protestants walked away from the feast . . .

Undoubtedly! The printing press finally put the Bible into the hands of The People it was written for. Exclusive interpretation of the Scriptures was, and remains, the most staggeringly powerful grip Catholicism holds over its adherents. Back then, they never saw the Scriptures, and still today, they are told what to believe that those Scriptures "really" mean.

 

[CoreIssue]

Be careful with statements like that. In 73 years on this Earth, I have yet to meet even one single person who is a true "Literalist" where the Bible is concerned..... though thousands proclaim such.

In linguistics figurative phrases then have known literal meanings are considered literal.

 

[Willie T]

In linguistics figurative phrases then have known literal meanings are considered literal.

As long as that Orwellian "Double Speak" works for you.

 

[Phoneman777]

I denied the Holy Sacrifice if the Mass??
When??
Can you show me the post - or are you too busy trying to pull your foot out of your mouth??

In the "I am excited...." by Willie T, post # 536, you said:
"Ummmmm, as Rev. 13:8 illustrates – His sacrifice is ETERNAL, Einstein."

That's core Protestant doctrine, Dead Bread. Conversely, you papists sacrifice Him twice a day.

In the Mass, it's called the "Corpus Christi" - the "CORPSE OF CHRIST", genius. I don't care how much you papists deny it with words like "presentation of Christ's sacrifice", a CORPSE is that which remains after one is DEAD, and if you claim to believe that a CORPSE with its BODY and BLOOD are literally present in the Eucharist and that the priest is called "the creator of his CREATOR" (Dignities and Duties of the Priest), then that amounts to MORE than just some exoteric "presentation" - it's an esoteric mock sacrifice of Jesus.

 

[CoreIssue]

How is @Reggie Belafonte speaking apostasy?
Every word he said is true. Take the time to look around you...

I agreed with him on this period being apostasy.

His problem is with other things he says, such as Catholicism doing things right.

Read post 4, in example.

 

[CoreIssue]

As long as that Orwellian "Double Speak" works for you.

Nothing Orwellian about it.

When revelation speaks of the Dragon, it is literally a Satan via figurative language that conveys meaning without having to spell out.

Or describing the gospel as seed. In a land of farmers it speaks literal volumes.

Still reality in our lives today.

So no idea where you were coming from on this one.

 

[GodsGrace]

It doesn't surprise me that some priests hold views that differ somewhat from official catholic doctrine, which I whole heartily commend them for doing! What matters is the official position of the catholic church...and that is Christ is literally sacrificed morning and night in the Mass.

Since a catholic must "eat His flesh and drink His blood" or will be lost, in the Mass His body and blood are supposedly "transubstantiated" into the literal body and blood of Christ - though the bread was and is freely offered to ALL the faithful, the wine ceased to be several centuries ago, peradventure "His blood might be spilled upon the ground."

Be assured, it is not anything like the memorial service that we Protestants rightly and Biblically recognize it to be.

Do you suppose Protestantism is the way it was 500 years ago?
Do you think it hasn't evolved?
Luther believed in the Real Presence. He was Catholic, after all !

I don't hear the CC saying that one must receive communion to be saved...
I know that it's a sacrament that offers grace; all the sacraments (7 of them) offer grace.

Catholics believe in salvation by grace through faith just like we do.
It's just that they're more secure in their beliefs about "works" and we like to argue about this.

 

[GodsGrace]

I agreed with him on this period being apostasy.

His problem is with other things he says, such as Catholicism doing things right.

Read post 4, in example.

I don't read anything wrong with post no. 4

Sometimes it's how people say things...
What do YOU think is wrong with it??

 

[CoreIssue]

I don't read anything wrong with post no. 4

Sometimes it's how people say things...
What do YOU think is wrong with it??

He said:
blind faith has no foundations, - there are many who have faith who could not explain it.

One Needs Grace or you have not Charity - blatantly false statement

The Protestants took Jesus Christ off the Cross, because they do not preach a crucified Christ - false. Our hope is in the resurrection.

There's more in other posts, but I'm not digging to find the them.

He has also been positive Catholicism.

 

[GodsGrace]

He said:
blind faith has no foundations, - there are many who have faith who could not explain it.

One Needs Grace or you have not Charity - blatantly false statement

The Protestants took Jesus Christ off the Cross, because they do not preach a crucified Christ - false. Our hope is in the resurrection.

There's more in other posts, but I'm not digging to find the them.

He has also been positive Catholicism.

I see.

I would agree with your first sentence about blind faith and agree that many have faith and know nothing about the bible. It would, however, be necessary to know exactly what he meant by this. He might mean a faith that leads to nothing... no changed life. I hate to assume what others believe.

As to needing grace to love others (charity as love),,,I'd have to agree with this.
How could we possibly love everyone as Jesus intends us to unless we have some help from the Holy Spirit? This "help" could also be called God's "grace". This is just language.

The hope of all of us is in the Resurrection, and if Jesus was resurrected then so will we be since He is the first-born of all creation.

As far as taking Jesus off the cross...I know He's not ON the cross anymore and we should view Him as a victorious Jesus. I'll be the poster agrees with this. Also, we do have to be careful not to bring Him down to human terms tooooo much, or He become like a comic book character; like Superman.

 

[CoreIssue]

I see.

I would agree with your first sentence about blind faith and agree that many have faith and know nothing about the bible. It would, however, be necessary to know exactly what he meant by this. He might mean a faith that leads to nothing... no changed life. I hate to assume what others believe.

As to needing grace to love others (charity as love),,,I'd have to agree with this.
How could we possibly love everyone as Jesus intends us to unless we have some help from the Holy Spirit? This "help" could also be called God's "grace". This is just language.

The hope of all of us is in the Resurrection, and if Jesus was resurrected then so will we be since He is the first-born of all creation.

As far as taking Jesus off the cross...I know He's not ON the cross anymore and we should view Him as a victorious Jesus. I'll be the poster agrees with this. Also, we do have to be careful not to bring Him down to human terms tooooo much, or He become like a comic book character; like Superman.

We can only judge what he says. If it is wrong is a problem.

As for the grace issue, my FIL did a a lot of charity. But you could not mention god to him, he wanted nothing to do with him.

How about Mother Teresa? She did a lot of charity while avidly supporting other religions and not preaching the gospel.

And of course we cannot turn Christ into just another one of us. Even the thought is terrifying to me that.

 

[GodsGrace]

We can only judge what he says. If it is wrong is a problem.

As for the grace issue, my FIL did a a lot of charity. But you could not mention god to him, he wanted nothing to do with him.

How about Mother Teresa? She did a lot of charity while avidly supporting other religions and not preaching the gospel.

And of course we cannot turn Christ into just another one of us. Even the thought is terrifying to me that.

Charity in the bible means LOVE, not doing a lot of charity work.
As to that FIL of yours, yes, it's no use doing a lot of works if one is not saved.
Works only count AFTER we're saved -- they will not save us. The best atheists do plenty of charity work.

Mother Teresa. Some preach the gospel by doing and not by speaking.
I read her biography and she sure seemed saved to me. But anyway, who am I to judge her? That's between her and God.

 

[CoreIssue]

Charity in the bible means LOVE, not doing a lot of charity work.
As to that FIL of yours, yes, it's no use doing a lot of works if one is not saved.
Works only count AFTER we're saved -- they will not save us. The best atheists do plenty of charity work.

Mother Teresa. Some preach the gospel by doing and not by speaking.
I read her biography and she sure seemed saved to me. But anyway, who am I to judge her? That's between her and God.

Charity, even in the bible means sharing, giving an and similar.

Yes, out of love, but that does not demand Biblical love.

Mother Teresa never preached the gospel. She always supported beliefs of who she was dealing with, be they Muslim, Hindu or whatever.