Just For Catholics.

[Nondenom40]

I am not claiming that Catholics worship saints; but that they come to God through saints in heaven, thus making saints in heaven their mediators between God and men.

Thank you for giving me the last word. It indicates to me that you know that you cannot win this one.

Because it is clear that if there is one mediator between God and men, that there cannot be other mediators between God and men other than that one.

This is true. I'd respond to epostle but he/she blocked me because he/she doesn't like having his own ccc and its glaring contradictions laid out for all to see. So i'll say this about multiple mediators. 1 Tim 2:5....One God and one mediator...eis theos eis mesites. The word 'eis' is one, but in this context it is one to the exclusion of all others; one God to the exclusion of all others. So eis mesites is; one mediator to the exclusion of all others. Paul wouldn't use eis in two different ways in the same breath. And mediator is not a synonym of prayer, intercession....Outside of Gal 3 which is a reference to Moses, mediator is used only of Jesus in the n.t. no one else. So no other mediator means exactly what you said. Which includes any so called co-mediators which the n.t. knows nothing of.

 

[justbyfaith]

Water baptism does have the power to save those who are not yet saved; it can indeed be for the remission of sins.

1 Peter 3:20-21, Romans 6:1-5, Colossians 2:11-15, Galatians 3:27, Acts of the Apostles 22:16.

Luke 7:29-30 shows us that there is a difference in the heart concerning the gospel and his attitude towards Christ when a man has been baptized.

 

[epostle]

Catholicism cannot IMPOSE truth, she can only propose truth to those who are DISPOSED to receive it. Repeating the same LIE over and over again, with no scriptural support, means the person is NOT disposed to be corrected. No discussion is possible. This kind of idiocy happens all the time in these forums. Thank God for the ignore feature.

 

[Giuliano]

Truth? What kind of truth do we want? Truth is found in the loving shepherd. Show me the love first. I do not care about logical arguments and inferences, history or any other claims unless I see the love. Show me the love first. Other voices I will not hear.

 

[epostle]

 

[epostle]

 

[Marymog]

Hey, Demas walked and talked with Paul. What did he do? He split and left Paul high and dry; 2 Tim4. What did Hymanaeus and Philetus do? Taught that the resurrection had already taken place and upset the faith of some. They knew Paul too..2 Tim 2. So what does walking and talking with apostles really do for your proof? Nothing. And i'm curious why youre quoting the latin and not the greek? The Lords Table is a remembrance, not a sacrifice. Big difference huh?

Thank you.

A re-presentation is a remembrance, not a sacrifice. (Definition of REPRESENTATION)

Soooo I am glad you agree with The Church on this.

Demas did NOT 'split and leave Paul high and dry'. He was a "fellow worker" (Philemon 1:24) and a "dear friend" who sent greetings (Colossians 4:14). Sooooo you got that one wrong.

What Hymanaeus and Philetus taught was not what the Apostles taught. The Church does not agree with their teaching and agree with the teachings of the Apostles sooooo your point is????

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Hey, Demas walked and talked with Paul. What did he do? He split and left Paul high and dry; 2 Tim4. What did Hymanaeus and Philetus do? Taught that the resurrection had already taken place and upset the faith of some. They knew Paul too..2 Tim 2. So what does walking and talking with apostles really do for your proof? Nothing. And i'm curious why youre quoting the latin and not the greek? The Lords Table is a remembrance, not a sacrifice. Big difference huh?

2 Timothy 2:2

You should read your bible....

 

[justbyfaith]

Demas did NOT 'split and leave Paul high and dry'. He was a "fellow worker" (Philemon 1:24) and a "dear friend" who sent greetings (Colossians 4:14). Sooooo you got that one wrong.

Demas did indeed split (2 Timothy 4:10). However, I believe that he was a prodigal who later returned.

 

[Marymog]

Demas did indeed split (2 Timothy 4:10). However, I believe that he was a prodigal who later returned.

Good point.....he temporarily deserted Paul for the love of the world.

My point was he did return.

 

[justbyfaith]

Good point.....he temporarily deserted Paul for the love of the world.

My point was he did return.

We know that it is only a possibility that he returned...because we don't know the timing of certain letters. If 2 Timothy was written after Colossians and Philemon, then in the latter books Paul was speaking of him before he made his departure.

 

[Marymog]

We know that it is only a possibility that he returned...because we don't know the timing of certain letters. If 2 Timothy was written after Colossians and Philemon, then in the latter books Paul was speaking of him before he made his departure.

Hi,

Thank you. I learned something today and it is because of YOU.

I agree with you.....there is no Scriptural or historical Christian writings to support Demas returning. I was wrong.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi,

Thank you. I learned something today and it is because of YOU.

I agree with you.....there is no Scriptural or historical Christian writings to support Demas returning. I was wrong.

Respectfully, Mary

There is no scriptural or historical evidence that says it absolutely...

However the possibility is still present in holy scripture.

 

[Nondenom40]

Thank you.

A re-presentation is a remembrance, not a sacrifice. (Definition of REPRESENTATION)

Give us what your church thinks representation is. From my experience catholics love redefining words to suit their theology. You think your mass is the same sacrifice as 2000 years ago. Thats not what is meant by remembrance. And your mass has nothing in common with Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.

Soooo I am glad you agree with The Church on this.

I don't.

Demas did NOT 'split and leave Paul high and dry'. He was a "fellow worker" (Philemon 1:24) and a "dear friend" who sent greetings (Colossians 4:14). Sooooo you got that one wrong.

2 Tim 4
10 for Demas, having loved this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica;

Okay, so Pauls 'dear friend' deserted him and went to Thessalonica. How do you define 'deserted'?

What Hymanaeus and Philetus taught was not what the Apostles taught. The Church does not agree with their teaching and agree with the teachings of the Apostles sooooo your point is????

Mary

My point stands. You think because some early church fathers walked and talked with apostles that somehow makes them infallible. It doesn't make them any more error free than it did for Demas, Hymanaeus or Philetus. They can, and were wrong on a number of things.

 

[Marymog]

My point stands. You think because some early church fathers walked and talked with apostles that somehow makes them infallible. It doesn't make them any more error free than it did for Demas, Hymanaeu or Philetus. They can, and were wrong on a number of things.

Well.....now I see who we need to go to for the Truth since you KNOW that the Apostolic and ECF's were wrong on a number of things.

Please enlighten us.....

 

[Nondenom40]

2 Timothy 2:2

You should read your bible....

2 Tim 2
2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

Great verse on discipleship. And?

 

[Nondenom40]

We know that it is only a possibility that he returned...because we don't know the timing of certain letters. If 2 Timothy was written after Colossians and Philemon, then in the latter books Paul was speaking of him before he made his departure.

Precisely. 2 Tim was Pauls last letter before he was executed. His other letters were from a different imprisonment.

 

[Nondenom40]

Well.....now I see who we need to go to for the Truth since you KNOW that the Apostolic and ECF's were wrong on a number of things.

Please enlighten us.....

Your church teaches that as well doesn't it? Origen and Tertullian were heretics according to your church. Simple facts aren't hard to find or expose are they. Just requires some reading.

 

[Enoch111]

Catholicism cannot IMPOSE truth, she can only propose truth to those who are DISPOSED to receive it.

Have you carefully examined Catholic *truth* in the light of Scripture, or are you merely a Catholic apologist? The RCC has perverted Bible truth, but you will never admit it.

 

[Marymog]

2 Tim 2
2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

Great verse on discipleship. And?

2 Timothy is a pastoral letter from Paul to Timothy. Paul, an Apostle, is instructing Timothy, a pastor, to entrust to faithful men what he taught Timothy. Those men would then teach other men.

Paul teaches Timothy....Timothy teaches faithful men.... faithful men teach other faithful men....Apostolic Succession.

In Luke Jesus says if they reject you they reject me. Sooooo if anyone rejects what Timothy taught then they reject Jesus. If anyone rejects what those faithful men taught, they reject Jesus. (presuming they taught what they were taught)

Its called Apostolic Succession and it is in Scripture in Acts 1.

Mary