Justification by Faith Alone

[GracePeace]

if the scriptures contradict they contradict.

It means we need to adjust our thinking correct?

I haven't seen a contradiction in my interpretations only you have claimed you have seen contradictions but you have yet to prove there are.

 

[GracePeace]

Yes.

Those who are saved SOW GOOD DEEDS

those who do not. Live in sin

John said whoever sins has never seen or known God. Whoever is born of God can not sin, because they have been born of God.

If your not living a life of sin your sowing good deeds

Paul said we are saved by grace through faith not of works.

And those saved do good works they were created for.

People who have true faith have good deeds..

1. Clearly it is not the case that "being a Christian automatically means you do good deeds" when we read 1 Corinthians 5 where one of them had his father's wife and the rest of the Church was boasting about his sin.
2. So, then, you agree that eternal life is a harvest that is going to be reaped in due time? That justification is only for the doers of good during this life?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I haven't seen a contradiction in my interpretations only you have claimed you have seen contradictions but you have yet to prove there are.

then I can not help you

Many people have proved it. Just because you can not see it does not make it so.

Again

I have eternal life. You claim my life is conditional

I have been saved by Grace, You claim I must be saved by works

I have been justified. You claim I must justify myself

God promises to complete a good work. You state I must complete the good work..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1. Clearly it is not the case that "being a Christian automatically means you do good deeds" when we read 1 Corinthians 5 where one of them had his father's wife and the rest of the Church was boasting about his sin.
2. So, then, you agree that eternal life is a harvest that is going to be reaped in due time? That justification is only for the doers of good during this life?

if you do not do good deed. You are a hearer only and not a doer. Your faiht is dead. No one has ever been saved by dead faith.

We are saved BY FAITH. faith is living

dont tell me you have faith in anyone and never do a thing they say, I will call you a liar. As you would call me a liar.

 

[atpollard]

You said something to the effect that "it sounds like very few are being saved" and I agreed Jesus's teaching is just that.

What do you have to say? Nothing.

John 10:22-30 [NLT]

It was now winter, and Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of Hanukkah, the Festival of Dedication. He was in the Temple, walking through the section known as Solomon's Colonnade. The people surrounded him and asked, "How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."

Jesus replied, "I have already told you, and you don't believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father's name. But you don't believe me because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father's hand. The Father and I are one."​

Ephesians 1:3-14 [NLT]

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ. Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure. So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son. He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins. He has showered his kindness on us, along with all wisdom and understanding.

God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure. And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth. Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.

God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God. And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.

​

Ephesians 2:1-10 [NLT]

Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.

But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.

God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.
​

• Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")
• Sola fide ("by faith alone")
• Sola gratia ("by grace alone")
• Solus Christus ("Christ alone")
• Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

Amen.

That's what I have to say.
Have you ears to hear?

 

[GracePeace]

if you do not do good deed. You are a hearer only and not a doer. Your faiht is dead. No one has ever been saved by dead faith.

We are saved BY FAITH. faith is living

dont tell me you have faith in anyone and never do a thing they say, I will call you a liar. As you would call me a liar.

1. Again, 1 Corinthians shows the Church sins a lot. James also says "we all err in many ways". Therefore, the idea that "if we have faith we will automatically only do good because we can't sin" is a false way of reading 1 John. History reproves your misreading. Your own life reproves your misreading. Or do you not sin?
2. Again, "saved" is not "definitely going to heaven"--give answer to 1 Corinthians 10 where it shows the Jews had been "saved" but still fell under God's wrath FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR which he then teaches was written for US to show US that that can happen to US as well.

 

[GracePeace]

John 10:22-30 [NLT]

It was now winter, and Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of Hanukkah, the Festival of Dedication. He was in the Temple, walking through the section known as Solomon's Colonnade. The people surrounded him and asked, "How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."

Jesus replied, "I have already told you, and you don't believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father's name. But you don't believe me because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father's hand. The Father and I are one."​

Ephesians 1:3-14 [NLT]

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ. Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure. So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son. He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins. He has showered his kindness on us, along with all wisdom and understanding.

God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure. And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth. Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.

God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God. And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.

​

Ephesians 1:1-10 [NLT]

Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.

But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.

God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.
​

• Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")
• Sola fide ("by faith alone")
• Sola gratia ("by grace alone")
• Solus Christus ("Christ alone")
• Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

Amen.

That's what I have to say.
Have you ears to hear?

Yes, the Word keeps those who keep the Word (eg, Revelation 3:10)--those who keep Christ's Word will be kept by Christ, but the branches that fall away will be thrown in the fire. Easy!

So, again, the life is in the Son, so we are warned to remain in the Son, or else we won't have the life.

If we fail to walk in faith, that is sin, and we are condemned Romans 14:23 which is a loss of justification.

 

[atpollard]

Easy!

... but not what God said.

 

[GracePeace]

... but not what God said.

So in your world "God said" Jesus keeps people who don't keep His Word. Interesting "take".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1. Again, 1 Corinthians shows the Church sins a lot. James also says "we all err in many ways". Therefore, the idea that "if we have faith we will automatically only do good because we can't sin" is a false way of reading 1 John. History reproves your misreading. Your own life reproves your misreading. Or do you not sin?

I never stated a sinner will be sinless

2. Again, "saved" is not "definitely going to heaven"--give answer to 1 Corinthians 10 where it shows the Jews had been "saved" but still fell under God's wrath FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR which he then teaches was written for US to show US that that can happen to US as well.

then we are not saved. Period. and we have conditional life not eternal period

I do not know what else to tell you.

Your not offering me any hope. Only fear and dis-pare. If I have to do it. I have no hope. because I can never live up to Gods standard.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So in your world "God said" Jesus keeps people who don't keep His Word. Interesting "take".

If your looking at it from God's perspective, It is interesting

Gods standard is perfection.

DO you live up to that standard?

 

[GracePeace]

then I can not help you

Many people have proved it. Just because you can not see it does not make it so.

Again

I have eternal life. You claim my life is conditional

I have been saved by Grace, You claim I must be saved by works

I have been justified. You claim I must justify myself

God promises to complete a good work. You state I must complete the good work..

1. Yes, we do have eternal life--since there are Scriptures that teach "eternal life is a harvest" and a "repayment for good deeds", clearly, and we can't have Scripture contradicting Scripture, we have to find a way to reconcile these. Now, Peter speaks of being "fruitful in the knowledge of the Lord". "Eternal life is to know You... and the One You sent". So, we know the Lord, and that is eternal life, but we must be "fruitful" in that knowledge--we must bring others to the knowledge of the Lord. What happens to unfruitful servants? Matthew 25:26 shows us that they have the talent (Measure of faith) stripped from them and they go to hell. So we see that we have eternal life but in order to keep that life we must "lay hold on the eternal life"--just as when God "gave" the Promised Land to the Israelites but then they had to "begin to possess".

2. We were saved, and we are being saved and we will be saved--all of these tenses of salvation are in Scripture.

 

[GracePeace]

I never stated a sinner will be sinless

Ahh... good... but you disagreed that the sin could compromise your justification which is taught in Romans 14:23.

then we are not saved. Period. and we have conditional life not eternal period

Eternal life is in the Son--remain in the Son and retain the Life, but He also warns the branches that don't abide in the Vine are thrown in the fire. Just following the Bible here.

Your not offering me any hope. Only fear and dis-pare. If I have to do it. I have no hope. because I can never live up to Gods standard.

God works in you, so why aren't you able?

 

[GracePeace]

If your looking at it from God's perspective, It is interesting

Gods standard is perfection.

DO you live up to that standard?

Romans 8:3 We who walk after the Spirit fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1. Yes, we do have eternal life--since there are Scriptures that teach "eternal life is a harvest" and a "repayment for good deeds", clearly, and we can't have Scripture contradicting Scripture, we have to find a way to reconcile these. Now, Peter speaks of being "fruitful in the knowledge of the Lord". "Eternal life is to know You... and the One You sent". So, we know the Lord, and that is eternal life, but we must be "fruitful" in that knowledge--we must bring others to the knowledge of the Lord. What happens to unfruitful servants? Matthew 25:26 shows us that they have the talent (Measure of faith) stripped from them and they go to hell. So we see that we have eternal life but in order to keep that life we must "lay hold on the eternal life"--just as when God "gave" the Promised Land to the Israelites but then they had to "begin to possess".

Yes, And john said he wrote so we can KNOW WE HAVE IT. and by this knowledge, CONTINUE TO BELIEVE

the power and hope to continue in faith is knowing we will never die, live forever, be raised on the last day, and have eternal life (john 6)

the loss of hope comes when we think we do not have eternal life but we have to earn it. That places the hope in self.. Which is no hope at all

2. We were saved, and we are being saved and we will be saved--all of these tenses of salvation are in Scripture.

if we are not being saved and may not end up saved in the end

we are not saved period..

 

[GracePeace]

then we are not saved.

Actually, the "then" is that your definition for "saved" is incorrect.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ahh... good... but you disagreed that the sin could compromise your justification which is taught in Romans 14:23.

It can't unless I am under law. In which case 1 sin, no matter how small. Makes me guilty. and I have fallen.

Eternal life is in the Son--remain in the Son and retain the Life, but He also warns the branches that don't abide in the Vine are thrown in the fire. Just following the Bible here.


God works in you, so why aren't you able?

Jesus said eternal life is eternal. I will NEVER die, I will LIVE forever. for I have eaten the bread of life. and I will live as long as he lived, I have been predestined to that state.

Now did Jesus lie?

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, And john said he wrote so we can KNOW WE HAVE IT. and by this knowledge, CONTINUE TO BELIEVE

the power and hope to continue in faith is knowing we will never die, live forever, be raised on the last day, and have eternal life (john 6)

the loss of hope comes when we think we do not have eternal life but we have to earn it. That places the hope in self.. Which is no hope at all


if we are not being saved and may not end up saved in the end

we are not saved period..

Since you chose not to address what was written here it is again.

1. Yes, we do have eternal life--since there are Scriptures that teach "eternal life is a harvest" and a "repayment for good deeds", clearly, and we can't have Scripture contradicting Scripture, we have to find a way to reconcile these. Now, Peter speaks of being "fruitful in the knowledge of the Lord". "Eternal life is to know You... and the One You sent". So, we know the Lord, and that is eternal life, but we must be "fruitful" in that knowledge--we must bring others to the knowledge of the Lord. What happens to unfruitful servants? Matthew 25:26 shows us that they have the talent (Measure of faith) stripped from them and they go to hell. So we see that we have eternal life but in order to keep that life we must "lay hold on the eternal life"--just as when God "gave" the Promised Land to the Israelites but then they had to "begin to possess".

2. We were saved, and we are being saved and we will be saved--all of these tenses of salvation are in Scripture.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually, the "then" is that your definition for "saved" is incorrect.

nope

If in the end I may not be saved.

I am not saved now.

God is outside of time. God is not going to say I am saved right now knowing in the end I will nto be saved.

Your looking from a human perspective, Try looking at Gods

 

[GracePeace]

It can't unless I am under law. In which case 1 sin, no matter how small. Makes me guilty. and I have fallen.




Jesus said eternal life is eternal. I will NEVER die, I will LIVE forever. for I have eaten the bread of life. and I will live as long as he lived, I have been predestined to that state.

Now did Jesus lie?

Did Jesus lie when He said there are branches that issue from the Vine which fail to abide and so are eventually thrown in the fire? You just like one verse but not the other?