Justification by Faith Alone

[GracePeace]

"Salvation by faith alone" ("saved" being un-Biblicallly defined as "definitely going to heaven") is often argued, based Romans 3:19 - Romans 5:1; what about Romans 14:23 which teaches that sin has the power to compromise justification (even if temporarily)?

Romans 14
23But the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

Condemnation is the opposite of justification.

If this loss of justification had no bearing on salvation (justification precedes salvation in Romans 10), then it would be inconsequential, but 1) sin is never inconsequential, and 2) why even mention it? Doesn't this loss of justification correspond, instead, to Romans 8:12-13 which teach that only those who "by the Spirit mortify the deeds of the flesh" will live and not die (as Adam died for sinning)?

What's interesting is that, here, we see the idea of "justification by faith" seemingly extended into "actions which proceed from faith" ("works of Law" proceed from sinful flesh Romans 8:3, but what we are discussing here are "works that proceed from God--which God works in us")--and, just as in James 2, justification and salvation hinge upon working according to faith.

 

[GracePeace]

Very true! However, being raised up in Protestant Theology, my biggest bone to pick with Baptismal Regeneration is that Jesus said the work we are to do is to believe in him. In following Jesus' example and his commandments, we do what pleases God for eternal life. It is not in anything we do apart from Christ that justifies us.

Even so, not even all we do in Christ is sufficient to save us. It is only by believing in what he did for us, in legally paying for our sins, that enables us to be saved and to receive eternal life.

I really wish I understood this better.
Jesus died for our sins.
But if we don't put forth effort and live in a way that pleases God we won't be saved.
Therefore, what difference does it make that Jesus forgives our sins if we don't obey--therefore, what difference does it make that He forgave our sins? I do have a sort of answer to this, but it has not proven fruitful so I have doubts about it.

The idea of doing rituals to be saved is the opposite of what Paul taught. If works of the Law did not save anybody, then neither does performing religious rituals save us

Well, not if you consider that we are to continue in faith, including the idea of faith in actions after we are saved if we wish to ultimately be saved--1 Corinthians 10 talks about the Jews having been saved by the blood of the lamb, then baptized into Moses, and then eating communion (the manna and the water coming from the Rock, Christ), and yet with most of them God was displeased and they fell in the wilderness under God's wrath and never inherited the Promised Land (corresponding to the eternal life belonging only to those who abide in Christ)--Hebrews 10 refers to these are "God's Righteous One" who needs endurance but who does not endure and so shrinks back unto destruction. John 15 would say they're branches who issue from the Vine but who do not endure.

This was what I alluded to in the OP, with Romans 14:23.

It is only in believing in what Christ did for us, and then receiving his new life, that enables us to prove our faith by exercising that new life. If we do not actually do what he says, our faith in not authentic, and our so-called "faith" does not obtain eternal life.

Is it really consistent with what Romans teaches that "true faith yields good works"--since it warns Christians they must do good deeds in order to inherit eternal life?

 

[GracePeace]

Titus 3 would be consulted then

works of faith are done by saved people not to maintain salvation but because they are saved

Our "salvation by the blood of the Lamb" corresponds to the "salvation" "by the blood of the lamb" by which the Jews were "saved" from their slavery in Egypt--yet they fell under God's wrath because though they began by faith they did not continue to walk in faith and so they angered God and failed to obtain the promise (for them it was Canaan but for us it is eternal life in the Son). This is the teaching in 1 Corinthians 10

 

[Eternally Grateful]

. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

paul is not talking about losing salvation here, he is talking about our freedom, if you think eating pork is a sin, and you eat it, you condemn yourself because if you really think it is sin, the guilt will come down on you heard, you end up condemning yourself or questioning your own salvation

I know, I lived in this slavery for years

 

[GracePeace]

. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

paul is not talking about losing salvation here, he is talking about our freedom, if you think eating pork is a sin, and you eat it, you condemn yourself because if you really think it is sin, the guilt will come down on you heard, you end up condemning yourself or questioning your own salvation

I know, I lived in this slavery for years

He is talking about the requirement that we walk by faith or else we're condemned.
Condemnation is the opposite of justification.
Your works affect your standing before God then.
Same thing James 2 teaches. Same as Romans 2:6-16. Same as Galatians 6:6-10.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He is talking about the requirement that we walk by faith or else we're condemned.
Condemnation is the opposite of justification.
Your works affect your standing before God then.
Same thing James 2 teaches. Same as Romans 2:6-16. Same as Galatians 6:6-10.

No he is not

I just posted the context of what was said.

If my works affect my standing

then Eph 2 is in error. John 3: 16 is in erro. Titus 3:5,is in error and so on and so on

I am not saved by grace but by works

I do not have eternal life, I have conditional life

 

[GracePeace]

No he is not

I just posted the context of what was said.

If my works affect my standing

then Eph 2 is in error. John 3: 16 is in erro. Titus 3:5,is in error and so on and so on

I am not saved by grace but by works

I do not have eternal life, I have conditional life

1. Context : Romans 14:5 "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind" Romans 14:23 "anything that is not from faith is sin" by which the sinner is "condemned".
2. We were saved by grace through faith, but that salvation was as the Jews' from Egypt--1 Corinthians 10 says they still fell under God's wrath without inheriting the promise to teach us that it can happen to us.
3. We do have eternal life, but the life is in His Son, and those branches which do not abide in the Vine (Christ) do not retain the life which is only found in the Son.

 

[GracePeace]

I am not saved by grace but by works

"Works of Law" are deeds done in the context of being "under Law" which emanate from sinful flesh Romans 8:3 Galatians 3:3, but the works which we do "under Grace" are done by God 2 Corinthians 12:9 not sinful flesh so they aren't "works of Law".

 

[GracePeace]

No he is not

I just posted the context of what was said.

If my works affect my standing

then Eph 2 is in error. John 3: 16 is in erro. Titus 3:5,is in error and so on and so on

I am not saved by grace but by works

I do not have eternal life, I have conditional life

1. Context : Romans 14:5 "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind" Romans 14:23 "anything that is not from faith is sin" by which the sinner is "condemned".
2. We were saved by grace through faith, but that salvation was as the Jews' from Egypt--1 Corinthians 10 says they still fell under God's wrath without inheriting the promise to teach us that it can happen to us.
3. We do have eternal life, but the life is in His Son, and those branches which do not abide in the Vine (Christ) do not retain the life which is only found in the Son.

"Works of Law" are deeds done in the context of being "under Law" which emanate from sinful flesh Romans 8:3 Galatians 3:3, but the works which we do "under Grace" are done by God 2 Corinthians 12:9 not sinful flesh so they aren't "works of Law".

However, it seems an important, vital, distinction that the tone of "walking by faith" is to be love and hope Romans 5:1-5 Galatians 5:5 not fear since fear characterizes the work of a slave Romans 8:15 which is someone "under Law" not someone "under Grace" "walking by faith" (it seems fearfulness would indicate and be a product of unbelief).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1. Context : Romans 14:5 "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind" Romans 14:23 "anything that is not from faith is sin" by which the sinner is "condemned".
2. We were saved by grace through faith, but that salvation was as the Jews' from Egypt--1 Corinthians 10 says they still fell under God's wrath without inheriting the promise to teach us that it can happen to us.
3. We do have eternal life, but the life is in His Son, and those branches which do not abide in the Vine (Christ) do not retain the life which is only found in the Son.

22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"Works of Law" are deeds done in the context of being "under Law" which emanate from sinful flesh Romans 8:3 Galatians 3:3, but the works which we do "under Grace" are done by God 2 Corinthians 12:9 not sinful flesh so they aren't "works of Law".

eph 1 titus 3 and romans 4 have nothing to do with works of the law..

If works of the law will not save me, No work will save me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

However, it seems an important, vital, distinction that the tone of "walking by faith" is to be love and hope Romans 5:1-5 Galatians 5:5 not fear since fear characterizes the work of a slave Romans 8:15 which is someone "under Law" not someone "under Grace" "walking by faith" (it seems fearfulness would indicate and be a product of unbelief).

so you have NEVER feared at all not even once?

 

[GracePeace]

22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

"He who doubts is condemned... for whatever is not from faith is sin." as he had established "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind".

 

[GracePeace]

so you have NEVER feared at all not even once?

Oh no I don't meant that at all--I am forgiven for my doubt, by which I often fear, though.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"He who doubts is condemned... for whatever is not from faith is sin." as he had established "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind".

never mind

Your stuck on one verse.

I look to the whole council of scripture.

I already explained what condemned oneself means.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh no I don't meant that at all--I am forgiven for my doubt, by which I often fear, though.

We all fear. And if we hold onto any kind of legalism. When we fall. We are condemned by our conscious. And satan uses that against us. And he can take us out of we let him.

 

[GracePeace]

never mind

Your stuck on one verse.

I look to the whole council of scripture.

I already explained what condemned oneself means.

Well, the rest of Scripture says the same--Romans 2:6-16 says that we will be repaid according to our deeds, eternal life, Galatians 6:6-10 says the same, James 2 says the same. Galatians 5 says we are to serve one another in love by which faith works so walking by faith is fulfilling the whole Law.

 

[GracePeace]

We all fear. And if we hold onto any kind of legalism. When we fall. We are condemned by our conscious. And satan uses that against us. And he can take us out of we let him.

I am speaking of the tone of service, not momentary unrelated fear (eg, watching a scary movie, or someone jumping out from behind a bush and startling us).

 

[GracePeace]

never mind

Your stuck on one verse.

I look to the whole council of scripture.

I already explained what condemned oneself means.

It's not about being "stuck on one verse"--there is no way to serve God but by walking by faith today since we are "under Grace". "Under Grace" God's Spirit of Grace writes God's Laws in our hearts and minds and that is what "faith" is. If we do not do what we are convinced we ought to be doing then we are sinning and those who sin are not glorifying God (glorifying God is by righteous deeds Matthew 5:14-16) thus are not being "fruitful in the knowledge of the Lord" and since they are not yielding a harvest they will have what was sown into them removed and they will be thrown into outer darkness Matthew 25:26-30 Matthew 22:11-13.

 

[atpollard]

never mind

Your stuck on one verse.

I look to the whole council of scripture.

I already explained what condemned oneself means.

Ironic that "GracePeace" offers neither GRACE nor PEACE, just the death that comes from the Law ... sin and condemnation.