Justification by Faith Alone

[GracePeace]

It may have been answered. it does not mean the answer was correct

You misunderstood.

To clarify, what I meant by what I said was that you hadn't even addressed the text and the doctrine--that is, had you realized/acknowledged the empty objection you raised had already been addressed, you wouldn't even have attempted responding in the way you had (you would, instead, have responded by responding to the responses having already been provided you).

Now, when your objections to 1 Corinthians 10 were answered, and debunked, instead of going further into the actual text to demonstrate how the text was ostensibly being incorrectly exegeted by myself, you fled in fear to another prooftext ("1 John says Christians don't live in sin!").

That's not how that works.

Fleeing in fear to another prooftext, and abusing that text (mishandling, misinterpreting, eisegeting it), doesn't prove anything about a completely separate text you'd previously abused and run away from (in this case, 1 Corinthians 10, Romans 14:23, etc). You have to deal with the text, not run away from it, to prove your point and disprove my point.

John said a child of God can not live in sin.

So I doubt john contradicted paul. In fact. Paul never taught any such thing,

in other words we are at a stalemate

I know you misinterpret scripture you think I do

so I bid you a due, I will pray for you, but we have come to meaningless conversation

No, your error was debunked in a separate post (I will erase that post and copy and paste that response here) :

Your argument is flawed because it's based on a flawed premise--ie, "Those who are born of God are forever born of God and cannot be 'unborn'--their having been born of God can never change!".

Let's address that error.

1 John 3
9No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.
​

So, "because His seed remains in him... he has been born of God".
As Peter says, "born of incorruptible seed".
The "seed" is the Word of God.
Where is that "seed"? The heart.
"With the heart man believes..."

So, can peoples' hearts change--can their hearts turn into hearts of unbelief (hearts that reject the "seed")--and, if so, how could that occur?

Hebrews 3
12Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart [e]that falls away from the living God. 13But encourage one another every day, as long as it is still called “today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our [f]commitment firm until the end, 15while it is said,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS,
AS [g]WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME.”
16For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness? 18And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.​

Through sin, believers' hearts can become hardened, unbelieving, so these who began by believing in Christ, but who do not keep their commitment firm until the end, can "fall away from the living God"--and, just as Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 10, again the comparison is drawn between our situation and what befell the Jews.

So, as is explained here, if we reject His Word ("Today if He speaks do not harden your heart"), we're rejected as His children.

Psalm 50
17“For you yourself hate discipline,
And you throw My words behind you.
...
22“Now consider this, you who forget God,
Or I will tear you in pieces, and there will be no one to save you.​

"Or I will tear you in pieces" He says to His wayward people (who try to "take up His Covenant in their mouths" v16).
Oh, just as He warns His wayward people in Revelation 2:16.
Must just be a coincidence.
Oh, just as He warns He will do to His wayward servants in Luke 12:46.
Just a coincidence I'm sure.

So, we see some who received the Seed decide to reject God's Seed.
They become hardened, perverted, corrupted--by sin.
What does God have to say about such people?

Deuteronomy 32
5They have dealt corruptly with Him;
they are no longer His children because they are blemished;
they are a crooked and twisted generation.​

So, again, your doctrine is very positive (in a "self-help" and "positive thinking" sense), it's just not Biblical.

Peoples' hearts can change, they can reject the Word/Seed (by which they were "born of God") from their hearts, thus they can become unborn, thus "no longer His children"--your empty objection to 1 Corinthians 10 (ie, running away from 1 Corinthians 10 to 1 John as if that were a substantive answer--again, it's not) is debunked and we're not at a "stalemate" (for you, this would be desirable, a step up, a positive development, because you have no answers--it would be undesirable, a step down, a negative development, for me, because I have answers and don't need a "stalemate").

You're back at square one :
Deal with Romans 14:23--"If you sin, you are condemned not justified--sin affects your justification."
Deal with 1 Corinthians 10--"Irrespective your salvation, if you live in sin you will not escape God's wrath nor will you inherit God's Kingdom."

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Paul said the Galatians were fools for going back to the Law ("you observe days" "you who desire to be under Law" Galatians 4:21), which is the sinful flesh, instead of "seeking to be perfected" by "the Spirit" which is defined as "doing deeds of faith", which are generated by God in our hearts--he never once said they are just to believe and then make sure not to do anything.

col 2 refutes this notion

Jesus took it all. and nailed it to the cross.

If he did not. we are dead in our sin

Both of you need to be corrected in your theology. First of all, GracePeace, Paul was NOT criticizing the Galatians for keeping the Law. He was criticizing them for backsliding into paganism. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Gal. 4:8-9 where he says "Before you Gentiles knew God, you were slaves to so-called gods that do not even exist. So now that you know God (or should I say, now that God knows you), why do you want to go back again and become slaves once more to the weak and useless spiritual principles of this world?"

The days, months, seasons, and years he goes on to mention are clearly referencing the pagan festivals the Galatians kept before their conversion. You should also pay special attention to where Paul asked "why do you want to go back again and become slaves once more to the weak and useless spiritual principles of this world?", further specifying the fact that he was referring to the worship of false gods the Galatians engaged in before they converted.

The Galatians clearly didn't keep or even have knowledge of the Law before their conversion. God also stated throughout Deuteronomy that keeping it brings success, wisdom, and understanding, so it makes no rational sense to claim Paul taught against the Law anywhere in this passage. If anyone claims the Law enslaves somebody, they are by default accusing God of being a tyrant since it came from Him.

As for you Eternally Grateful, your theology is equally unbiblical because Col. 2 does not say Christ paid for past, present, and future sins at all. It is clearly an idea you read it into the text, because verse 13 shows Paul referring to sins that were committed prior to conversion: "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,". Notice the text does NOT say "having forgiven you all future trespasses." The inherent flaw in your belief is that it obviously contradicts what John says about the people who subscribe to such a belief in 1 Jhn 1:9-10: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

 

[GracePeace]

Both of you need to be corrected in your theology. First of all, GracePeace, Paul was NOT criticizing the Galatians for keeping the Law. He was criticizing them for backsliding into paganism. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Gal. 4:8-9 where he says "Before you Gentiles knew God, you were slaves to so-called gods that do not even exist. So now that you know God (or should I say, now that God knows you), why do you want to go back again and become slaves once more to the weak and useless spiritual principles of this world?"

The days, months, seasons, and years he goes on to mention are clearly referencing the pagan festivals the Galatians kept before their conversion. You should also pay special attention to where Paul asked "why do you want to go back again and become slaves once more to the weak and useless spiritual principles of this world?", further specifying the fact that he was referring to the worship of false gods the Galatians engaged in before they converted.

The Galatians clearly didn't keep or even have knowledge of the Law before their conversion. God also stated throughout Deuteronomy that keeping it brings success, wisdom, and understanding, so it makes no rational sense to claim Paul taught against the Law anywhere in this passage. If anyone claims the Law enslaves somebody, they are by default accusing God of being a tyrant since it came from Him.

As for you Eternally Grateful, your theology is equally unbiblical because Col. 2 does not say Christ paid for past, present, and future sins at all. It is clearly an idea you read it into the text, because verse 13 shows Paul referring to sins that were committed prior to conversion: "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,". Notice the text does NOT say "having forgiven you all future trespasses." The inherent flaw in your belief is that it obviously contradicts what John says about the people who subscribe to such a belief in 1 Jhn 1:9-10: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

1a. Circumcision is the Law, and Paul says "now you have to keep the whole Law to be justified by the Law" (as James also says "he who keeps the Law but stumbles in one point offends the entire Law"), so it is clear what they are turning to.
1b. "Elemental spirits" is "stoicheia"--elements (earth, wind, fire, air) that constitute the Cosmos, but the term was also used to refer to spiritual beings like demons, angels, gods, etc (even Jews thought certain angels were in charge of certain "rows" of the Cosmos).
Paul wasn't saying they were literally returning to their former paganism, but showing them that living "under Law" was a return to the same elements (whereas through the Cross we are "crucified to the world" and "seated in heavenly places").

2. Regarding whether the Law leads to slavery, read Romans 6:14 and Romans 7:7-24. Also, just read Galatians 4:21 to the end of the chapter where he calls Jews "slaves" then in Galatians 5:1 says that that yoke of slavery oughtn't be submitted to.

 

[GracePeace]

@Desire Of All Nations

1b. "Elemental spirits" is "stoicheia"--elements (earth, wind, fire, air) that constitute the Cosmos, but the term was also used to refer to spiritual beings like demons, angels, gods, etc (even Jews thought certain angels were in charge of certain "rows" of the Cosmos).
Paul wasn't saying they were literally returning to their former paganism, but showing them that living "under Law" was a return to the same elements (whereas through the Cross we are "crucified to the world" and "seated in heavenly places").

People thought that some of these elemental realities were actually these various beings.

 

[GracePeace]

1a. Circumcision is the Law, and Paul says "now you have to keep the whole Law to be justified by the Law" (as James also says "he who keeps the Law but stumbles in one point offends the entire Law"), so it is clear what they are turning to.
1b. "Elemental spirits" is "stoicheia"--elements (earth, wind, fire, air) that constitute the Cosmos, but the term was also used to refer to spiritual beings like demons, angels, gods, etc (even Jews thought certain angels were in charge of certain "rows" of the Cosmos).
Paul wasn't saying they were literally returning to their former paganism, but showing them that living "under Law" was a return to the same elements (whereas through the Cross we are "crucified to the world" and "seated in heavenly places").

2. Regarding whether the Law leads to slavery, read Romans 6:14 and Romans 7:7-24. Also, just read Galatians 4:21 to the end of the chapter where he calls Jews "slaves" then in Galatians 5:1 says that that yoke of slavery oughtn't be submitted to.

This doesn't mean "well we're going to sin without the Law", because the power of the righteousness is not in ourselves, but since "God Is Our Righteousness" Jeremiah 23:6 He does not need instruction. We are "not under Law but under Grace" Romans 6:14.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As for you Eternally Grateful, your theology is equally unbiblical because Col. 2 does not say Christ paid for past, present, and future sins at all. It is clearly an idea you read it into the text, because verse 13 shows Paul referring to sins that were committed prior to conversion: "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,". Notice the text does NOT say "having forgiven you all future trespasses." The inherent flaw in your belief is that it obviously contradicts what John says about the people who subscribe to such a belief in 1 Jhn 1:9-10: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

As for you Desire.

If Jesus did not pay for your future sins. You are doomed for all eternity the moment you commit your next sin (which most likely happened mere minutes or hours after you got saved) and there is no more hope for you

The penalty of sin is death. Without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness.

All of your sins were future when Jesus died. He did not just die for sins up until you confessed. He died for them all

That is what paul was talking about.

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

What are these handwriting of requirements that was against us. That he was required to take out of the way. Nailing it to the cross?

He took them because they are what condemned us, the curse of the law. The very thing Paul mentioned in Gal 3, the very thing Jesus went to the cross for. The lamb of God who takes the sins of the world

Sorry my friend. But your just plain wrong here. Instead of telling people what they say is Unbiblical. Show some humility and try to at least discuss it first.