God's perspective is His Word which is what I cite for my beliefs not logic and philosophy like you are doing "God is outside time, blah blah blah".
Justification by Faith Alone
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Jesus lied..
My God keeps his promises.
The standard is perfection. I pray you keep that standard. Because you are trying t6o save yourself.
I must go.. I will pray for you
So, you claimed I was having Scripture contradict Scripture, but I showed how they do not contradict, but dovetail, and you never explained how my reconciliation of those seemingly disparate ideas was supposed to be wrong. I have the problem that I want to believe ALL of Scripture whereas you want to believe one or two verses here or there.
My God promises "if any branch does not abide in Me he dries up and is cast into the fire".
Your "god" never said that I guess.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
My god said whoever believes in him will
Never die, will live forever. Will be raised on the last day. Has eternal life. Will
Not be put to shame. Will be with him in eternity
They he will Complete the work he started and we can be confident in that
He also said it is finished. Paid in full. He did Not say I did My part now you do yours
not everyone in church is saved. Many claim it but will be burned as Jesus said because they did Not believe
Well, what does "condemned" mean in Romans 14:23 if it doesn't mean "justification is compromised" since justification and condemnation are opposite verdicts the Judge can render?
The life is in the Son : abide in the Son to retain the life, if not you lose the life as well.
Yes, actually, He does say "do yours"--"obey for it is God at work" Philippians 2:12-13 "co-laborers with God", etc.
It is important to note that the branches issue from the Vine--they have to have life to "grow" from the Vine. They have life. They lose life for not abiding. Simple--on my view, at least.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Phil 2 says work the salvation you have. Not to get saved
1. Strawman--I've already stated I believe we're saved.
2. The point stands : God says "do your part--'"obey" because God is working'".
the same man that said justified by faith said whatever is not from faith is sin so both are true therefore just what is whatever is not from faith is sin.
to look at what you deliberatly taken out fof context in its context:
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
hence pork unclean for consumption amongst many especially Jews. this has nothing to do with one's salvation does it?
justified by faith applies to salvation, not what may or may not be right for some one to eat.
According to Romans 14:23 the Christian is capable of being condemned and it is because of sin which is defined as "anything that does not proceed from faith" which Jesus says is "anything that is beyond 'yes, yes' or 'no, no'". No problem for my view.
That's precisely my point : justifying faith seems to include works of faith (Romans 4 "steps of faith of Abraham") because failure to walk by faith compromises justification. "Works of Law" are done "under Law" by "slaves" in "fear", they are produced by "sinful flesh" Romans 8:3 Galatians 3:3, but under the New Covenant the works we do are not "works of Law" because they do not issue from sinful flesh but from God, with "hope" by "sons of God" "Under Grace".
God is my witness I believe I am reading it in good faith not dishonestly.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen! "Work out" your salvation and not work for your salvation. In verse 13, Paul goes on to say, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."
atpollard
Well-Known Member
No.
In your world it is all about what YOU do.
In my world it is all about what GOD does.
Biblical “take”.
- Philippians 1:6 [NASB] 6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
- Philippians 2:12-13 [NASB] 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
I can explain it TO YOU, but I cannot understand it FOR YOU.
I absolutely believe it is God Who works. I don't deny that. We are in Christ and Christ is in us--Christ works.
That's half of the truth.
The other half is that you have to work.
You also deny "co-laborers with God"?
"My Father works until now and I work"?
It's good that you believe part of the Bible, I'm just talking about other parts.
Again, failure to walk by faith results in a compromise of justification Romans 14:23, so "justification by faith" extends into "works of faith" ("steps of faith of Abraham") just as James 2 says.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
If we HAVE TO WORK, then Grace is not Grace, according to Paul.
The saved will CHOOSE to walk in the good works which God prepared for us in advance.
You seem to be presenting WORKS as the root that keeps our salvation alive rather than the fruit that naturally grows from a strong, healthy salvation rooted in GRACE. As we say in gardening … green side up!
1. What it should "seem" I'm saying is simply what Scripture says : failure to walk by faith results in a compromise of your standing before God (justification is the opposite of condemnation) Romans 14:23.
2. It is foolish to assume the saved always choose to walk in good works--read 1 Corinthians where they are rebuked over and over and over for NOT walking in good works. Also, if they really always automatically chose to walk in good works, there would be no need for Paul to instruct Timothy to "rebuke, reprove, admonish". That wouldn't exist.
Perfect love casts out all fears. We are God’s workmanship created onto Good works. He puts his love in our heart. He gives everyone man a measure of trust. And as the Lord said the just shall live by trust. The trust that God gives us. And as the apostle wrote those that say they love God and hates his brother the love of God is not in them. You speak of works but yet it is God in you that produces the works not you. All those in the Lord walk in the Spirit. These are the gifts God puts in us.
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