"JUSTIFICATION"

[michaelvpardo]

First let me show you a verse from Brenton's Septuagint Translation:
Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

In this translation it is a commandment, to not justify the wicked. And "for gifts" is a reference to bribery. As we should not accept "free gifts" they are bribery. 8"Do not accept bribe[...]". At least in this context of justification.

In NLT it reads: "[...]I never declare a guilty person to be innocent." The "I" is refering to the God of Israel, and in other translations it says He will not justify the wicked.

And this "wicked" is anyone who breaks God's Law: sinners, guilty, ungodly are all synonyms commonly used, and can be found in Strong's. These are the people God won't justify.
Woe to them:
Isaiah 5:22 Woe to the strong ones of you that drink wine, and the mighty ones that mingle strong drink:
23who justify the ungodly for rewards, and take away the righteousness of the righteous.

Here we see that, it is the sinners that justify the ungodly, not God, and these sinners justify the ungodly "for rewards" or for a bribe.

We also have this verse from NASB:
Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

It is evident the true God of Israel will not justify the sinner, neither the wicked, nor the ungodly. Not only that, but anyone who does, is probably a sinner who did it for a reward, and are an abomination to the LORD.

And now we have this verse, I took from Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

Excuse me, what? "The One who justifies sinners"? Who would that be?
Surely it isn't the God of Israel, who said He will not justify sinners, and He cannot contradict Himself.
Keep in mind this is to "the one who does not labor" meaning the sinners who do not keep the works of the Law, like the commandments. To them it is "credited" righteousness, almost like a "free gift", reminds me of bribery. And all they have to do is believe on "the one who justifies sinners".

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Romans 11:31-32
This verse is specifically about Jews who observe the law of Moses. You've missed the point of the ministry of Jesus Christ completely.

9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 18:9-14
You have no understanding of the righteousness of faith.

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. Galatians 2:16

 

[Daniel L.]

It would be the One who sent His Son to The Cross for that purpose.

The One who sent His Son to the Cross will not justify sinners, so it cant be Him for His Word is true forever:

Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

Also He is not an abomination:

Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

That is why Im asking who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

your position as though Jesus’ life is a bribe that is offered by God

Not my position, I didnt come up with this, I didnt write:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing Daniel.

How are people justified or did you post that in your original post?

God bless,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[Enoch111]

That is why Im asking who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

You already got your answer from Scripture -- it is God who justifies sinners. But you are here to troll and spread spiritual confusion by misquoting and misrepresenting Scripture.

 

[Daniel L.]

You've missed the point of the ministry of Jesus Christ completely.

Enlighteen me then, dont leave me in my ignorance, dont you care for my soul? As you said I missed the point of Jesus Christ completly so if I didnt understand the Word of God how am I supposed to understand you ? I dont understand your objection Sir.

You have no understanding of the righteousness of faith.

This is my understanding of the parable, which is non existent according to you:

The Pharisee despised others which is a clear violation of the Law of God. So they were both sinners.
The reason why the publican was justified was because he was repented in his heart, he confessed and asked for forgiveness.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And so the sinner is cleansed from all unrighteousness, making him righteous by the abstinence of unrighteousness in him, and thus can be justified. Keep in mind repentance is a work:

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; [...]

How are people justified

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

it is God who justifies sinners.

Not the God of Israel, because His Word endureth forever:

Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

And He is not an abomination:

Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

So what do you mean "god" ? There is no God besides the Mighty One of Israel:

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

That is why Im asking who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

 

[MatthewG]

What are the works of a Christian?

 

[Enoch111]

Not the God of Israel, because His Word endureth forever

You have no clue about justification, yet you start a thread on this subject. Why don't you educate yourself first?

 

[Curtis]

First let me show you a verse from Brenton's Septuagint Translation:
Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

In this translation it is a commandment, to not justify the wicked. And "for gifts" is a reference to bribery. As we should not accept "free gifts" they are bribery. 8"Do not accept bribe[...]". At least in this context of justification.

In NLT it reads: "[...]I never declare a guilty person to be innocent." The "I" is refering to the God of Israel, and in other translations it says He will not justify the wicked.

And this "wicked" is anyone who breaks God's Law: sinners, guilty, ungodly are all synonyms commonly used, and can be found in Strong's. These are the people God won't justify.
Woe to them:
Isaiah 5:22 Woe to the strong ones of you that drink wine, and the mighty ones that mingle strong drink:
23who justify the ungodly for rewards, and take away the righteousness of the righteous.

Here we see that, it is the sinners that justify the ungodly, not God, and these sinners justify the ungodly "for rewards" or for a bribe.

We also have this verse from NASB:
Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

It is evident the true God of Israel will not justify the sinner, neither the wicked, nor the ungodly. Not only that, but anyone who does, is probably a sinner who did it for a reward, and are an abomination to the LORD.

And now we have this verse, I took from Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

Excuse me, what? "The One who justifies sinners"? Who would that be?
Surely it isn't the God of Israel, who said He will not justify sinners, and He cannot contradict Himself.
Keep in mind this is to "the one who does not labor" meaning the sinners who do not keep the works of the Law, like the commandments. To them it is "credited" righteousness, almost like a "free gift", reminds me of bribery. And all they have to do is believe on "the one who justifies sinners".

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

He’s the God who declares sinners who’ve repented and turned to God through faith in Jesus, righteous in His eyes.

This doesn’t include believers who turn reprobate and live a sinful lifestyle again without repentance.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Enlighteen me then, dont leave me in my ignorance, dont you care for my soul? As you said I missed the point of Jesus Christ completly so if I didnt understand the Word of God how am I supposed to understand you ? I dont understand your objection Sir.



This is my understanding of the parable, which is non existent according to you:

The Pharisee despised others which is a clear violation of the Law of God. So they were both sinners.
The reason why the publican was justified was because he was repented in his heart, he confessed and asked for forgiveness.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And so the sinner is cleansed from all unrighteousness, making him righteous by the abstinence of unrighteousness in him, and thus can be justified. Keep in mind repentance is a work:

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; [...]



James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.



Not the God of Israel, because His Word endureth forever:

Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.

And He is not an abomination:

Proverbs 17:15 One who justifies the wicked and one who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

So what do you mean "god" ? There is no God besides the Mighty One of Israel:

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

That is why Im asking who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

Try reading my post.

 

[Behold]

This doesn’t include believers who turn reprobate and live a sinful lifestyle again without repentance.

You can't stop being born again.
This includes all the born again, those that are good disciples and those who are not.

See, God didn't say.....>"if you believe in Jesus, and are born again, and then you never again sin, or live a carnal lifestyle, you shall be saved"

Heretics, do say that.
Heretics put conditions on "the GIFT of Salvation""".... that God does not., and that is how you discern that they are Heretics.

See that, Curtis?
Take a good close look.

 

[Daniel L.]

What are the works of a Christian?

Isaiah 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

You have no clue about justification, yet you start a thread on this subject. Why don't you educate yourself first?

What is the problem with starting a thread on a public forum, even if I have no clue about the subject, I should gain knowledge from the brethren, if Im wrong we can discuss and correct, there are many positive reasons to ask and discuss with others, every one knows something I dont. This would be a good place to educate myself in the midst of so many brothers, right? And why dont you tell me about justification, seeing I have no clue about it, but instead leave me in the dark and in ignorance, and reveal nothing to me except: that I "have no clue about justification"?

He’s the God who declares sinners who’ve repented and turned to God through faith in Jesus, righteous in His eyes.

Sinners who have repented, are no longer sinners. So he justifies the past/former/retired sinners, not the sinners.

Try reading my post.

I have read Paul already, your post has 4 verses and 2 insults to my intelligence, what am I supposed to understand?
There is no premisse, no objection I dont know if you are Universalist or what, I dont want to misrepresent you.

 

[MatthewG]

What if the Christian fails in any of those points?

 

[amigo de christo]

Read your Bible for the answer: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted [imputed] for righteousness... Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. (Rom 4:5;8:33)

There are many who call themselves Christians but do not believe that justification is by grace through faith. God's grace and the sinner's faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. So do you or do you not believe the above Scriptures?

Sound it out till the last breath . The gospel is truly under attack in this day and age .
Point to CHRIST till the last breath my friend .

 

[Daniel L.]

What if the Christian fails in any of those points?

Repent

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

[amigo de christo]

You already got your answer from Scripture -- it is God who justifies sinners. But you are here to troll and spread spiritual confusion by misquoting and misrepresenting Scripture.

exactly . HOLD to what the glorious scriptures do say . The one true gospel of believe Ye in JESUS is under attack .
So many folks wanna believe in things that are simply not true . AS FOR ME and for the lambs
WE CLING TO CHRIST and shall trust in and beleive what was long ago written in that bible . March on in the LORD my friend .

 

[MatthewG]

How can a person come before the throne of grace?

 

[farouk]

How can a person come before the throne of grace?

Hi @MatthewG Hebrews 4.14-16:

"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

 

[amigo de christo]

How can a person come before the throne of grace?

THROUGH JESUS CHRIST . Let all that has breath praise the glorious and wonderous LORD .
have all hope , all trust , all faith IN HE ALONE . JESUS is our hope and our salvation .
Now let the glorious Lord be praised .

 

[amigo de christo]

Hi @MatthewG Hebrews 4.14-16:

"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

ITS ALL ABOUT THE GLORIOUS LORD JESUS . Let all faith , hope and trust be in HIM . Now put those hands up
and let the glorious LORD be praised my friend .

 

[Daniel L.]

How can a person come before the throne of grace?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

John 16:17 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.